Forget about the debate about what's a free-speech or hate-speech or not. Just think about the following points. When people who do not believe in a particular religion suddenly humiliate or defame religious figures of that religion - what credibility do they have? None, what so ever! It's so predictable. Trust me – people criticize other religions privately all the time; only some people sometimes go public with it. Can't we just brush it off expecting that some crazy people will do it or can we assume that they lack knowledge and perspectives and they will disseminate wrong message? When you said ShreeKrishna had hundreds of wives, I surely knew that you lack knowledge. Let me correct you from my knowledge of the epical story of ShreeKrishna. ShreeKrishna had 1600 gopies, which may be translated into 1600 girl friends. Again, it needs further perspective to understand the nature of the relationship between Krishna and gopies. Krishna left Gokul, where he had 1600 gopies, for Mathura when he was about 11 years old. Therefore, these gopies had opportunity to mingle with him only from 0 - 11 years of age. Now, you can assert whatever you want to the relationship of Krishna and 1600 gopies. When you said – Krishna had hundreds of wives, it did not surprise or bother me at all; I am sure - it will not bother other Hindus also. I knew you were not aware of the real story behind it. You said this trailer movie is a crap. Why people who are rioting on the street do not understand that. If they did - they would not give such an attention or publicity to this crap movie. I was not interested in this movie at all in the beginning, but, now with this inordinate importance on the movie, my curiosity has increased thousand-fold. So far, all I know is - it's about Prophet Muhammad. I am guessing - one of the two can happen – the story is either untrue or true. If it is true – it should not bother anybody, because most people probably know it already. If it is untrue, let's tell the world what's the truth, and expose those people who tell such lies. Let's make another movie to tell the truth. In either ways, violence is not needed. However, there is a way to justify violence, and that is - if the story is true, and people want to block its propagation through violence. But, that is almost impossible to do in this day and age, when all you need to make a movie is - a video-camera and a computer or cell-phone to disseminate it throughout the world. I always hear don't hurt the feelings of the Muslims if you want to stop the violence, but we hardly hear about if there are alternative ways to fight back. I believe some people are fueling the flames to use this issue for something else. In either way, it is not enhancing the image of the Muslim community around the world. That's my analysis as a bystander. --- On Mon, 9/17/12, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, September 17, 2012, 3:00 PM
Gentlemen,
Personally I simply ignore such garbage which does not have any historical links to the characters they claim to portray. During election year, a lot of ugly things happens. It is too early to speak with any certainty about the clip.
What I know about it is it simply supported every "Typical orientalist" stereotype. In popular lingo these are known as "Hit piece" which lacks substance. Albeit I don't think this spoof of the noble messenger of God (PBUH) will do any damage to Islam or the last prophet Muhammad (PBUH).
However I am very sadden to see innocent civilians die because of such lose enforcement of "Hate speech".
Thus, it would be wrong to accuse the US government of 'allowing' this video to be circulated.
>>>>>>>>>> I think it is fair to say we knew that this kind of junk generally gets a reaction from the crowd. I am not worried about my "Honor" or even honor of my religion. Because crap will wash away in few days but this time this little stunt caused few lives!!
I have a little idea about US constitution and how it has been applied in last few hundred years. I am ALSO aware of the FACT that, US sent over 50,000 INNOCENT Japanese-American citizens to internment camps to prevent loss of lives (Of white Americans for all practical purpose). I can give you a very long list of such actions to prevent loss of innocent lives by the constitution bound US government.
I am just shocked to see that, US would risk lives of so many for a home made Amateur movie, which is probably more fitting for Saturday Night live than mainstream movie goers.
Again in the US, if you scream fire (If there is no actual fire) in the middle of a movie theater, you can be arrested for that crime ( I am 100% sure of it). Similarly if someone makes a porn movie about Hindu goddesses and Sri Krisna, they should be arrested as well. Because without context most people will be mislead by such movie. Albeit Sri Krisna is believed to have hundreds of wives by Hindus. Just mentioning without context will give the wrong impression.
Therefore when we deal with such sensitive issues, we have to be more careful for all practical purpose. Here no one knows who made this movie. The actors claims they don't even know about this project. Does it sound or look like a "Normal" movie?
Just like US government increased security measures for "Public safety", they can monitor against abuse of "Free speech". The concept was meant to foster lively discussions, debates among people not hatred, libel, slander against innocent people.
Don't try to give me definition of "Free speech", I think we are mature enough to get past elementary discussion and go deeper.
Therefore, I am not very worried about lives of people who are protesting the movie. Most of them would love to die to show their love for the noble prophet (PBUH) but I am concerned about people who are in the middle of this mess but did not expect such mayhem. I am concerned about thousands of travelers who have to face extra level of scrutiny for this "Crap". The security department workers who have to work extra hours. At the end of the day, it will cost a lot more money to US tax payers for such horrible oversight.
Still I am certain US constitution was not meant to "protect" slander/libel against great people. Also this kind of blunder only helps so called "Communal" wings of our communities. They act as a recruiting agent for such fringe groups.
Even the maker of the movie (Who is believed to be a criminal and fraud) is not defending the movie, why should US government?
Shalom!
-----Original Message----- From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Sep 17, 2012 6:39 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy
I think QAR does not know the logical definition of "hate speech." Most Americans, including Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and myself, who have strongly condemned the video, "Innocence of Muslims", have found it to be disgusting and distasteful. It is disgusting because it has insulted and mocked the prophet of Islam, which serves no other purpose but making the Muslims angry. Making someone, or even millions of people, angry or upset does not fall in the category of "hate speech." A "hate speech" would ask people to commit one or more crimes such as killing, torturing, raping, etc. The video did not ask people to commit any such crime. That is why the maker of the video could not be prosecuted under US laws just for making and showing the video. However, the allegations of dubbing to change the words without the approval of the actors, if true, would certainly allow the actors to sue the maker of the video. Of course, any other unrelated crime, such as the bank fraud case that has been in the media, could also land the suspected maker of the video into legal hot waters. Sukhamaya Bain As much as I abhor the u-tube "Filth" some people call a film. I do not think US government would murder it's own diplomat. Like all societies US has it's share of flaws but it also has some great qualities as a country. A per-world war ll insignificant country had some greatness in it to become what it is today. One of my uncles fought for the British Royal Air force during second world war and he told me stories of that war when I was a kid. He said even back then Americans were generous, friendly and loved humor lot more then the "British".
My wife told me yesterday – she heard that - the infamous film was funded by middle-eastern money to spark the violence against the USA.
>>>>>>>> So far bunch of "Middle eastern" fanatic Jews and Christians are suspect behind this very "Unique" project. It is very sad that, a hate filled film(With tons of distorted information) was "Allowed" to circulate and cause so much harm all over the world. Even in the US, free speech is protected but "HATE SPEECH" is against the law. In this digital world even America has to learn to act quickly, because I felt many "Copy cats" are working in their basements with similar projects. I also hope Muslims need to realize these are NOT work of any government. Just some very suspicious groups who work to put "hate" in as many hearts it can. Therefore, it has unmistakeably ME connection but a Jewish/Christian one. (Based on what we know until now). Shalom!
-----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy < jnrsr53@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona < mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Sep 14, 2012 12:03 pm Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Obama vows justice for killed US envoy | Let me explain my problem with most of your comments, they are usually 1 – 2 liners. So, usually, we have to guess what you mean. I am glad that you clarified your political bent. I believe, most people in this forum support democratic platform. That's fine with me. Political talks in this forum is meaningless. I can give hundred reasons why I support other party, but - nobody will change their mind. Then what's the point. So, let's stay away from politics. The other issue you raised is interesting. You said you are staying away from US pressure-cooker society. I am not sure what that means. As far as I know, a substantial part of your life has been spent in the USA; you received higher education here, and worked here until retirement. Now, you feel US society is a pressure-cooker, and you live outside. It will be interesting if you care to explain a bit more on this, because I also think this society is moving away from the traditional values that made this country great. I do not like what I see recently. You said that USA arranged and/or sat back while Japan attacked the Pearl Harbor, so that they can bomb Japan into Stone Age. It is apparent from your statements that – you are a contrarian, and believe in the conspiracy theories. You probably also believe 9/11 was planned by George Bush administration so they can attack Afghanistan and Iraq. My wife told me yesterday – she heard that - the infamous film was funded by middle-eastern money to spark the violence against the USA. All these are a bit nutty to me, to put it mildly. Then again, what do I know about the truth? After all, human-beings are the most dangerous animals on the planet. Jiten Roy ======================================= |
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