Dr. Roy
Mr. Rahman has read next to nothing on Islam. Instead of being 'introduced for the whole mankind', Islam was victorious over a few thousand of Meccans in the beginning, and as Persia collapsed from inside, the Arabians conquered them. Most of the vanquished people accepted Islam to pay less taxes to the rulers, instead of being convinced by it's philosophy. Even today, most people bearing Muslim names don't have much faith on it.
On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 7:12 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
You have been emphasizing that Islam was introduced for all mankind. Unfortunately, I can't solve the puzzle. Do you think other religions were not for all mankind? What qualifies Islam as a religion for all mankind? I thought Islam is for Muslims only. Don't you think everybody has to become Muslim in order to make Islam the religion for all mankind? Also, don't you think - mankind will be called Muslim-Ummah at that point? The question is - can you follow Islam and not identify you as a Muslim? If you can't, Islam will be a religion only for Muslims, not all mankind.
Logically it does not make sense why Islam, being the latest religion, with intent to include all mankind will introduce a new identity, called Muslim, for its believers. You may be dreaming about the time when most people in the world will be Muslim. Some Christians may have similar dream too. History tells us that early Islam-propagators had that dream, and they were so driven by the dream of Muslim-ummah that - they did not hesitate to resort to forced imposition of Islam (by sword, as they say) in many parts of the world, even though such technique may not be sanctioned in Islam.
If a religion is introduced with intent to include all mankind, it should not divide the mankind by assigning a religious label on its followers. I can think of the early Vedic religions that had the potential to include all mankind, since there were no other major religions at the time. But, politics of other contemporary religions in the later period did not allow such potential to come to fruition.
Thanks.
Jiten Roy
--- On Thu, 12/6/12, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, December 6, 2012, 11:43 AM
Not really! I wish I could agree with you. Islam is prevalent in most of the troubled spots on the globe. Islamic political parties are destabilizing secular democratic norms of the society even in Bangladesh, Pakistan, and India. You need to show us some results before we accept your premise.
>>>>>>>>> I remember one Iraqi university teacher said (On TV) that, he wished they did not have any oil. The other person asking him question was dumbfounded and asked why do you say thing like that? He said since we discovered oil, we have been ruled by people outside Iraq!!
Therefore, he preferred to be poor instead of being a rich slave.
There are some religious parties supplying many headlines. That happens when there are "Actions" happening in many places where we have Muslim majority. For example, Palestine, Kashmir, Afghanistan and "Islamic parties" had no effects to these places. They came much later.
As far as Bangladesh is concern, I don't even know why a huge party like BAL focuses so much on Jammat. I never thought Jammat had that much power to "Destabilize democratic norms". In facts, if anything our big parties (All major parties) have done a poor job in promoting democracy in Bangladesh and even inside their own parties. So the common man/woman don't sense authenticity when they speak of "Democracy".
Generally speaking, my observation is when our regular parties FAILS us, people focus on alternative parties. It ranges from communist (Shorbohara) to fanatic religious ideologies. These are more like reaction to sorry sad of state then someone directing the nation. Fortunately as far as Bangladesh is concern, we still have some time to walk into a bright future if we do our jobs properly. Which means leading parties have to focus more on solid work over "Hot speeches" about opposition parties.
It is also important to remember there are religious parties in many places like Turkey, Algeria, Tunisia etc and they are doing fine. Most countries in ME are also making solid progress.
As far as my initial comment is concern, it is true that, unlike most other religions, Islam is the ONLY global faith that speaks about HUMANITY over any specific tribes. It speaks to human beings, therefore those who do not come from Islamic background some wrong perceptions about Islam. For example, if you examine scriptures you will see Judaism and Christianity came from JEWS only. No solution was given and some creative interpretations were done to stretch "Christianity" into a global faith. You will NOT find the word "Christianity" in the Bible. Islam is an unique religion in that manner.
Again my emphasis is always on basic religious concepts. Also based on history, I feel religious Islamic party itself is not a bad concept but when you abuse good concept they can make you look bad. No disagreemt there..
Shalom!
-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Dec 5, 2012 6:34 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, December 4, 2012, 9:13 AM
why some people take religious-feeling so seriously than others. Reacting to a religious feeling violently is a needless reaction, in my view, if you believe in the consequences on the Day of Judgment. Just leave to the Almighty; will you?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> different people reacts differently to any given situations. When we were colonies of the British Raj, some people liked it, some people disliked it but did not do anything about it and a groups of people (From all religious background) started to violently fighting the colonial rulers.
Guess it is normal human nature.
Also we have enough laws in the books to punish chaos makers in our country. Regardless of your faith background (Or no faith background), I am pretty sure most people will not like trouble makers. There when you become leaders of any country, we have to pick laws that serves best interest of our communities. Not only intentional insults against the holy Qur'an should be addressed, I would say same for idiotic insults against any faiths. It is plain common sense.
(To me) the beauty of Islam is that, our Creator put these "Common sense" laws in written form, so all of us can live in harmony. Remember unlike any faiths in human history, Islam was NOT meant for any specific nations or tribes, it was sent as a solution for the humanity. When you look at the topic from this perspective, it will make more sense to you. :-)
Shalom!-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 4, 2012 7:38 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, December 3, 2012, 4:58 PM
Regardless of our opinions about "Disrespecting the holy Qur'an", we should NOT allow average people getting into the business of punishment. Mob rule never brings anything good for any population. Despite my respect for the holy Qur'an, I do NOT support "Mob justice". No so called "Islamist party" should support such attacks on religious places. While it has been a command of Allah (SWT) to Muslims to stay away from such practices.
At the same time, I like to slightly differ with member Roy as well. Do understand Islam is a religion which addresses and acknowledges "Natural laws of human". When we live in a country consisting of around 85% Muslim population, insulting holy book of Islam does NOT promote harmony among people. Therefore, it makes the security situation more risky. Do understand MOST Muslims do not respond to such "provocation" violently. But even if a tiny minority reacts, that can cause law and order situation. For example, if I slaughter a cow in front of Victoria memorial (In Kolkata), there is a good chance most people will hurt and tolerate it. At the SAME TIME, it is almost guaranteed that I am simply inviting some "Ass kicking" here. You try to say awful things about the "Christianity" in the Bible belt of America, you will surely get your "Ass whipped" by more than a minority population.
Therefore, in principal I agree that, Allah (SWT) will surely punish the people who insult His holy book for humanity. At the same time for practical purpose I would not encourage such idiotic behavior from anyone. We should think bring people closer and live in harmony. We are more than enough troubles and challenges in front of us. There is no good reason to encourage idiots to bring chaos into this tiny country of ours.
Shalom!
-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 2, 2012 11:42 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate
Hannan Saheb,Why is mistreatment of Quran so intolerable to Muslims?If Muslims believe Quran is the wills of Allah, they have nothing to worry about when someone mistreats Quran; Allah will punish those violators in the Day of Judgment. When someone commits sin, the duty of a religious person is to point it out and advise the sinner to change the course. That's all. The rest is up to the sinner.Do you think Allah will be satisfied with the punishment you render to the sinner? Do you think the sinner will go to Behestah (Heaven) after you deliver the punishment for the sin? I don't think so. What you are doing is punishing the sinner for nothing; he will be punished again for the same crime when he faces Allah. It's a redundant punishment you are rendering. My friend, I want you to propagate this message to the ignorant people, who participated in the carnage.If you consider mistreatment of Quran is so intolerable offense to Muslims - that justifies attacking the person who mistreats Quran also, which you are trying to denounce. You cannot have both ways. I expect better interpretation from you.I am sure - all Muslims are not following all of the wills of Allah, as written in the Quran. You can't do anything about those violators, and you don't need to also - because Allah will punish them in the Day of Judgment. Why can't you have the same justice to non-Muslim violators? Why is this double standard?Jiten Roy
From: SAHANNAN <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] About communalism and non communalism--please see my writeup as lot peole accuse Islamists of communalism--please circulate
To: puspitadr@gmail.com, dahuk@yahoogroups.com, khabor@yahoogroups.com, mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com, "'sahannan sahannan'" <sahannan@yahoogroups.com>, "'lutful bari'" <lutfulb2000@yahoo.com>, zahid_du003@yahoo.co.uk, nibulbul2006@yahoo.com, mrkarim_80@yahoo.com, monjucp@yahoo.co.in, maftabuzzaman@gmail.com, "'NAZMUS SAKIB NIRJHOR'" <nirjhor019@yahoo.com>
Date: Sunday, December 2, 2012, 9:11 AM
About communalism and non communalism--please see my write-up as lot of people accuse Islamists of communalism.
সাম্প্রদায়িকতা ও অসাম্প্রদায়িকতা
শাহ আবদুল হান্নান
আমি এ রিপোর্ট থেকে বুঝতে পেরেছি উত্তম কুমার বড়–য়ার ফেসবুক থেকে ছবিটি ছড়িয়ে পড়ায় হঠাৎ উত্তেজনায় এ দুর্ঘটনা ঘটে, যা নিঃসন্দেহে নিন্দনীয়। এতে কোনো রাজনৈতিক দল বা ইসলামিক দল বা রোহিঙ্গারা জড়িত নয়; যদিও সরকারের ভেতরের এবং বাইরের কিছু লোক এ ঘটনার জন্য রোহিঙ্গা এবং বিভিন্ন রাজনৈতিক ও ইসলামি দলকে দায়ী করছেন। বিশেষ করে সরকারের এটা করা উচিত নয়।
এ ঘটনাকে কেন্দ্র করে সেকুলার ও বামের কিছু লোক নতুন করে সাম্প্রদায়িকতার অভিযোগ তুলছেন যে, এটা সম্প্রদায়িক চেতনার জন্য হচ্ছে। এটা সেকুলার ও বামের পুরনো রোগ। আর যারা বাংলাদেশের রাজনীতির সাথে পরিচিত তারা জানেন যে, সাম্প্রদায়িকতা বলতে বাম ও সেকুলাররা ইসলাম, ইসলামি দল, ইসলামপ্রীতি ও ইসলামি রাষ্ট্র দাবির প্রতি ইঙ্গিত করে থাকেন। এরা ইসলামি দল নিষিদ্ধ করা চান, শিক্ষায় ইসলামের কোনো স্থান চান না।
এ পরিপ্রেক্ষিতে সাম্প্রদায়িকতা ও অসাম্প্রদায়িকতা সম্পর্কে কিছু আলোচনা করব। সমাজতত্ত্বে বা সোসিওলজিতে সম্প্রদায় (কমিউনিটি, সোসাইটি) একটি পজিটিভ পরিভাষা। এর মাধ্যমে বিভিন্ন জনগোষ্ঠীকে বোঝানো হয়। সমাজতত্ত্বে এটা কোনো নিন্দনীয় পরিভাষা নয়। সমাজে সম্প্রদায় থাকবে। সব সম্প্রদায়ের অধিকার রয়েছে তার বিশ্বাস মোতাবেক চলার এবং কর্মসূচি নেয়ার। মুসলিমসমাজ বা সম্প্রদায়েরও একই অধিকার। ইসলাম একই সাথে একটি ধর্ম ও জীবনব্যবস্থা। তাই মুসলমানেরা যেখানে সংখ্যাগরিষ্ঠ, সেখানে তাদের ইসলামি সমাজ বা রাষ্ট্র গঠন করার সব ধরনের চেষ্টা করা তাদের অধিকার। এটাকে সাম্প্রদায়িক চেতনা বলে নিন্দা করা যায় না। অসাম্প্রদায়িক অর্থ যার কোনো সম্প্রদায় নেই। তার মানে তার কোনো আদর্শ ও নীতিবোধ নেই। এ ধরনের নীতিহীনতা ও নীতিহীন লোক দিয়ে কোনো কল্যাণ হতে পারে না।
এসব শব্দের ভুল ব্যবহার করা হচ্ছে। বিশেষ করে ইসলামকে রাষ্ট্রীয় ও সামাজিক ক্ষেত্র থেকে হটিয়ে দেয়ার জন্য। সবাই কমিউনিস্ট নয়, তবু কমিউনিস্ট পার্টি করলে তাকে সাম্প্রদায়িক বলা হয় না। সবাই সেকুলার নয়, তবু সেকুলার পার্টি করলে তাকে সাম্প্রদায়িক বলা হয় না। তাহলে ইসলামি দলের ক্ষেত্রে তা কেন বলা হবে?
সবশেষে রামুর ঘটনার শিক্ষা কী? প্রথমত, ধর্মগ্রন্থের অবমাননা করা যাবে না। তার ফলাফল ভালো হবে না। দ্বিতীয়ত, উত্তেজনার বশে নিরীহ লোকদের ওপর হামলা করা যাবে না। যারা এসব করবে তাদের যথাযথ শাস্তি ভোগ করতে হবে। এ ধরনের ক্ষেত্রে সরকারি এজেন্সিগুলোকে দ্রুত ব্যবস্থা নিতে হবে। রামুর ক্ষেত্রে এরা দেরিতে কাজ করেছে, যার ফলে অনেক বাড়ি ও ধর্মস্থান ক্ষতিগ্রস্ত হয়েছে।
শব্দের ব্যবহারের ক্ষেত্রে সাবধান হতে হবে। সাম্প্রদায়িকতার অভিযোগে যারা দায়ী নয়, তাদের দায়ী করা যাবে না। আমাদের অসাম্প্রদায়িক চেতনাবোধ নয়, ধর্মীয় সহিষ্ণুতার প্রচার-প্রসার ঘটাতে হবে।
লেখক : সাবেক সচিব, বাংলাদেশ সরকার
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