Maybe some of you have left our country few years ago but you will be surprised to see how many people steal out of greed only.
When someone cannot find work or cannot earn enough to feed his/her family, he/she could indulge in stealing.I think anybody could deviate from normal path for survival or when subjected to that dire situation.
>>>>>>> Very fair point. Once I was told harsh punishment can be relaxed in some exceptional cases. Maybe a Sharia expert can explain more about it. I can only give you general overview of it. Sharia also leaves an option to family of victim.
In most cases, they can forgive the criminal or take monitory compensation in case of murder.
Generally media focus on sensational parts of Sharia but omit boring parts like this (forgiveness).
Here is a little example of it.
Theft
In general, people are allowed to forgive a criminal (To please Allah) if a crime has been committed against a person or family. However if a crime hurts a community, generally criminals have to be punished. Albeit some Fuqahas (Those who explain application of Islamic laws) do say some of those crimes can be relaxed in some conditions. For example, if a criminal is ignorant about the laws.
Shalom!
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Jun 28, 2013 7:47 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video// Let us look at women in Secular country
Can someone with enough knowledge in Sharia Laws educate us on these issues?
Jiten Roy
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video// Let us look at women in Secular country
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video// Let us look at women in Secular country
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video// Let us look at women in Secular country
Still waiting for a response. >>>>>>>> Still less biased than our current system we have. Which is mostly no justice at all. Is Sharia not biased against women in general? What is your comment on "tin talak"? >>>>>>>>>>>> Over 90% of Bangladeshi Muslims do not understand the tin talak issue. I learnt about it few years ago and it cannot be used in one go. Which means if two partners cannot stand each other, they have to reconsider three different times (After trying to work it out for no less than three times) a divorce is valid. So if someone utter talak out of anger, it is not valid. My questions are motivated by my reading of novels and stories, and watching movies and documentaries on the poor and illiterate sections of the Muslim society in Bangladesh. Last time I watched a film in Toronto on Sharia. It was made by Hassan Mahmud and I had an opportunity to meet him there. Are these all myths or facts? >>>>>>>>>> Our lack of knowledge about Islam and rights of women in Islam is mostly factual. When I visited rural Bangladesh and how people are dealing with religion is mostly sad. ALSO we have to do much more to educate our mass about right of our non-Muslim neighbors over us. We have to treat them with respect and fairness. The positive note is in last ten years Bangladesh made HUGE progress in this area. Today very educated young people and middle aged people are showing interest in authentic Islam and learning from scripture (Instead of Maulanas only). This is wonderful but we have to do much more to create a more harmonious soceity. How can some thing revealed from God lead to many schools of jurisprudence? How do you know that human intervention has not distorted divine revelations? >>>>>>>>>>> Mostly it is only six or seven. Still they all agree with fundamental issues. Some freedom was given during the earliest days of Islam. Some issues came much later (For example how to pray when we are traveling in an aero plane). Shalom!
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Saturday, June 29, 2013
Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video// Let us look at women in Secular country
For example, punishment for stealing is chopping off hands. If you think about why people steal, you will see, most people steal in a desperate situation.
>>>>>>>>>>> I was told that, people may be forgiven if someone steals a loaf of bread out of desperation. However the owner of destiny scams, share market scams, hall mark groups (costed BD people over 3000 croe taka) will not be spared.
Malik, the originator of the Maliki judicial school of thought, recorded in The Muwatta of many detailed circumstances under which the punishment of hand cutting should, and should not, be carried out. Commenting on the verse regarding theft in the Quran, Yusuf Ali says that most Islamic jurists believe that "petty thefts are exempt from this punishment" and that "only one hand should be cut off for the first theft."[8] Maududi also agrees that petty theft is exempt, although he admits that jurists disagree as to the exact dividing line.[9]
-----Original Message-----
Among all religious rules and regulations, Islamic laws are the most nonsensical and inhuman ones. It's not only 4 witness to prove a rape allegation, there are many more nonsensical laws. For example, punishment for stealing is chopping off hands. If you think about why people steal, you will see, most people steal in a desperate situation. When someone cannot find work or cannot earn enough to feed his/her family, he/she could indulge in stealing.I think anybody could deviate from normal path for survival or when subjected to that dire situation. Are you going to chop his/her hands off? What will he/she do after that; who will feed the family after that punishment. Can you rehabilitate those people after the punishment? What will they do rest of the life?
I like the questions by Professor Subimal Chakrabarty. It is refreshing to see our nice guy asking some tough and politically incorrect questions.
But let me try to actuate some more thoughts.
Is there really such a thing as a uni-religious society? Take the Muslims, for example. They are all humans with different degrees of freedom of thoughts, based upon the degrees of mostly childhood brainwashing. Deep down, probably not even a single one of them in the world can totally accept the dogma of Islam. I have no doubt that the innocent among them have the natural compassion of realizing, for example, that it is unjust to require a rape victim to produce four male witnesses to prove her case. This kind of innocence is human, religion or not. To make this discussion brief for now, I would simply ask, is Sharia not discriminatory? Even where all children are born in Muslim families, should a child be condemned forever to the burdens and the discriminatory practices of his/her foreparents' religion?
SuBain
==========================================
In taunting people currently you seem to be the best in the forum. Let me try one more time.
1. Will Sharia be discriminatory in a multi-religious country?
2. Do the Muslim citizens of Bangladesh prefer Sharia court to our current judicial system?
3. Can a Sharia court (not in America, but in a country where it is in force) include a woman?
4. Can the victim and the accused have hire lawyers as is commonly practiced in non-Sharia countries?
5. Can the wife utter the word "talak"?
6. How many eye witnesses does a rape victim need to prove that she was raped?
7. Do you consider public beheading, stoning to death, and chopping hands as primitive forms of punishment?
8. Why do you think the current system is no justice at all?
From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
"We have been discussing pros and cons of Sharia and Islam in Bangladesh."-----QR
Not really. I am absolutely against Sharia Law in Bangladesh. Introduction of Sharia Law in a multi-religious country will be immoral, unethical, undemocratic, and hence unconstitutional
>>>>>>>>>> Brother, I feel you are overreacting for no reason. We are discussing the topic but none of us proposed sharia for Bangladesh. The world all of us live in, it is a relevant topic and it does not hurt anyone to have some basic understanding of the subject. I fully respect and understand your opinion about Sharia law but NO one proposed it here. So have some cool aid and relax for a sec. Will ya? Even if the religious minorities are kept outside of Sharia Law, a vast majority of the Muslims will resist it. As long as you will keep this system as an option, you will simply be acting as a divisive agent. >>>>>>>>>> I think you can have this conversation all by yourself!! You can propose it first and give us reasons why do you oppose it. lolAre you suggesting that West Bengal needs Sharia Law? Are you also suggesting that Taliban Afghanistan witnessed the best implementation of Sharia Law? If you are, I must say that out of frustration of the present law and order situation you are irrationally prescribing extreme solutions. >>>>>>>>>>>> Did I? Again you are doing all the proposing here and getting mad. Very interesting monologue!!
Can a woman become a Sharia juror?
Still waiting for a response.
>>>>>>>> The peer jury system mainly practiced in the USA not in Bangladesh. So this question is irrelevant. I am not aware of the sharia stance about it in US context. Maybe because NO one ever proposed Sharia in the US!!Is Sharia biased against woman rape victims?-----Original Message----- From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Jun 25, 2013 5:40 pm Subject: Re: Fwd: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video// Let us look at women in Secular country
"We have been discussing pros and cons of Sharia and Islam in Bangladesh."-----QR
Not really. I am absolutely against Sharia Law in Bangladesh. Introduction of Sharia Law in a multi-religious country will be immoral, unethical, undemocratic, and hence unconstitutional. Even if the religious minorities are kept outside of Sharia Law, a vast majority of the Muslims will resist it. As long as you will keep this system as an option, you will simply be acting as a divisive agent.
"Let us take a look at secular democracies and how women are being treated. Here is a story from our neighbor."-----QR
Are you suggesting that West Bengal needs Sharia Law? Are you also suggesting that Taliban Afghanistan witnessed the best implementation of Sharia Law? If you are, I must say that out of frustration of the present law and order situation you are irrationally prescribing extreme solutions.
Can a woman become a Sharia juror?
Still waiting for a response.
Is Sharia biased against woman rape victims?
Still waiting for a response.
Is Sharia not biased against women in general? What is your comment on "tin talak"?
My questions are motivated by my reading of novels and stories, and watching movies and documentaries on the poor and illiterate sections of the Muslim society in Bangladesh. Last time I watched a film in Toronto on Sharia. It was made by Hassan Mahmud and I had an opportunity to meet him there. Are these all myths or facts?
How can some thing revealed from God lead to many schools of jurisprudence? How do you know that human intervention has not distorted divine revelations?
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