I am afraid Dr. Jiten Roy might have identified me as a follower nonviolent philosophy of Gandhi which I am not. My point is: Angola has banned Islam, so another country will have to retaliate by banning Christianity---that cannot be a wise step.
Sent from my iPhone
"Retaliating a bad thing with another bad thing is not sensible."
This is an insane thought; absolutely, insane.
Jiten Roy
On Thursday, November 28, 2013 10:06 AM, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
1. I vote for Dr. Sukhamaya Bain. "Tumi odhom boliya ami uttom hoibo naa keno?" Retaliating a bad thing with another bad thing is not sensible. The chain reaction can be dangerous for the world.2. The news on Angola banning Islam and destroying mosques still seems to be controversial to some extent. The state religion of Angola is Christianity. Like any other religion, Christianity is not monolithic. It has so many denominations. Angola is dominated by the Catholics and Muslims constitute only 1% of the Angolan population. The recent move may be more about establishing constitutionally Catholic supremacy in the country in which Islam along with dozens of other religious groups and cults have become unfortunate victims.3. Banning religion is not new in history. King Ajatashatru prohibited practice of Buddhism in his kingdom (read the poem Poojarini by Rabindranath). We have witnessed all sorts of madness in the middle ages in the Christian and Muslim world. Communist countries banned religions as a matter of principle, not out of hatred.4. What do we see now? Is it any thing different from what has happened in Angola recently? Look at Saudi Arabia. Look at Pakistan. There are Islamist groups in Bangladesh who are out there to ban a particular sect in Islam.5. In my opinion the world would have been better without organized religions. But that world is almost a mission impossible. Prof. Ahmad Sharif, a lifelong confirmed atheist, once wrote that man would never quit religion (I read his article in 1969 or 1970).6. Banning organized religions may be impossible, but banning politics in the name of religion may not be an unrealistic proposition. I feel this is urgent in Bangladesh.
On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 8:45 PM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
@Sukhamoy BainYes, I understand why you find everything wrong in my statement. You live in a different state of mind than I.
You said, "I think good/just people should remain good/just and try their best to discourage barbaric/unjust behavior everywhere."This type of mindset is not only impractical, but also could be dangerous in some situations. Your mindset may be good in an ideal world, but not in the forever complex real world. Also, such line of thinking has been proven worthless in the context of religious freedom. As you know, very little has changed in terms of religious freedom in Saudi Arabia and other Islamic societies in the Middle East over thousands of years. So, just calling them barbaric states will not stop religious discrimination anywhere.
Jiten Roy
On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 7:15 PM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well said, Mr. Rahman! You are spot on!
-SD"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss
On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 6:18 PM, ANISUR RAHMAN <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com> wrote:
I can see that Mr. Bain is holding the high moral ground on religion and hoping that others will emulate him. But the fundamental question is, what is it that is causing violation of high moral standards in some countries? Is it not the religion? Religion is inherently tribal and sectarian. Each religion claims to be the best and tries to attract more people into it. Sometimes it is done overtly - by banning other competing religions in its territory as in Saudi Arabia and Iran - and sometimes covertly by offering humanitarian aid, support etc and converting the people. The ultimate aim is the same - expand your empire overtly or covertly. In fulfilling this universal aim, it is inevitable that there will be conflicts and we have seen those conflicts over the centuries and we are witnessing them now.So, is it not a good idea that this root cause of conflict is eliminated? Religion had its time and usefulness when civic codes and statehood were not in existence. We now live in a different world where religious hegemony is not only in conflict with each other but also with the state. As we cannot get rid of the state, we would rather get rid of religion.- A RahmanFrom: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 27 November 2013, 2:13
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Angola Bans Islam, Destroys Mosques
I think the line of thoughts below is almost all wrong.Let me say it clearly again, 'Saudi Arabia is a barbaric state' is no good reason for any good/just person/nation to turn barbaric.Now, does that mean that a just person/nation should accept Saudi Arabia to remain barbaric? NO.I think good/just people should remain good/just and try their best to discourage barbaric/unjust behavior everywhere. They should also penalize/fight hatred and injustice where needed. Fighting the barbarians with "justice for all" philosophy is not barbarian by any means.It is very unfortunate that for short-term and short-sighted interests, and for their mostly perceived weakness, many otherwise decent people/nations accept, tolerate, and even encourage unjust and barbaric behavior in people and nations.Let me give an example from the Indian subcontinent. In India, the so-called secular forces are too short-sighted and idiotic; they do not seek just one set of laws (uniform civil code) for all citizens. The uniform civil code, which is a serious secular phenomenon, gets hijacked by the Hindutwa fanatics. What a shame!Now talking about some realities, I can see that in some places in the world, one group of hate-mongers seems to be better in fighting another group of hate-mongers. That reality, to me, is too unfortunate and wrong. The fight really should be between the hate-mongers and people who do not hate; and it should be executed with utmost conviction by people who do not hate. Until this present reality is changed, I do not see much hope in this world.Sukhamaya Bain========================================From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Angola Bans Islam, Destroys Mosques
You said Saudi Arabia, being a barbarian state, can do such things, but that should not be repeated by others. Unfortunately, Saudi Arabia is very influential world power; whatever they do, many others emulate. There are many other countries, where persecution of religious minorities are rampant. Also, as you know, millions of people have no problem with Saudi religious practices. They will support it until they are subjected to such discrimination, as is the case in Angola.You must have noticed that – there are no outcries over such unjust practice in Saudi Arabia also. That could be because most people love to take the moral high ground, as you did. They people have mindset of "we are not one of them." The result is – such practices have been going on unabated for thousands of year in Saudi Arabia.
