Sent from my iPhone
Subimalbabu:
The poem, Africa, I agree with Pareshda, is the most profound analysis of what colonialism was all about. A London newspaper (Spectator?) carried its English version (done by the poet) but it's not traceable. Why not try to locate this through your source in London?
Best,
SR
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 06:13:30
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] মার্ক্সবাদীদের প্রতি
1. SankarDa, I have no doctorate degree.2. There has been a misunderstanding: I did not mean that you said that Rabindranath read or mentioned Marx. I am curious and asked the question every one in the forum.3. Please read my few comments on "Rashiyar Chithi". He understood in 1930 the excesses the communist leaders were doing.4. Have you noticed that Rabindranath used the word "sobhara(sorbohara)" in one of his poems--his God used to live among those who had lost every thing?5. His reading list was lot longer than one can imagine by reading him superficially. He constantly kept himself updated with the latest developments. The poem "Africa" is an example of the ability he had to grasp the core idea of "people's history". In his "Shesher Kobita" ( probably) Amit is found to read James Williams's "Pragmatism". We can come up with many such examples. The bottom line is that it may not be impossible that Rabindranath was somehow exposed to EPM.Regards.Sent from my iPhoneI thank Dr Subimal Chakrabarty to comment on my posting. But there are some misunderstanding. I never stated that Rabindranath read or mentioned Marx. At least I do not know.
I have three points to note. First, one doesn't find any mention of ' alienation' in Lenin's writing. One may say that Economic and Philosophical Manuscripts of 1844 (Marx) wasn't known to Lenin as it was discovered by Riazanov eight years after Lenin's death. But Rabindranath referred to 'alienation' almost directly much before the publication of EPM.
On the 150th birth anniversary of Rabindranath, I wrote in an article in Hindustan Times, "Differences notwithstanding, Marx and Tagore had the same goal: emancipation of individuals. Marx envisioned "a reunion of free individuals". Tagore harped on the same point in every sphere of life. They had a striking similarity in the ideation of alienation. Two workers in Tagore's play Red Oleanders (1925) introduce themselves as '47-O' and '69-E', an idea propounded by Marx in his 'Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844', which wasn't known in India even during the Stalin era. "The worker", Marx wrote, "only feels himself outside his work" and gives in to "forced labour". In his lyric 'The Tame Bird Was In A Cage', Tagore says "They flutter their wings in yearning, and sing, 'Come closer, my love!'/The free bird cries, 'It cannot be, I fear the closed doors of the cage.'/The cage bird whispers, 'Alas, my wings are powerless and dead.'" . (http://www.hindustantimes.com/comment/edits/brotherhood-of-man/article1-695456.aspx).
Second, Marx (Engels too) did not differentiate between socialism and communism, but perceived them as synonymous. Other synonyms are republic of labour, society of free and associated producers, reunion of free individuals, society of free and associated producers etc.This basic understanding was demolished by Lenin, subsequently by Bolsheviks , later by Stalin, Mao and the entire 20th Century socialism (?) (Farida may kindly note that this understanding made me refer to Rabindranath's 'Amra Sabai Raja Amader-er Rajar rajotwe and I have no reason to revise my perception).
Third, Rabindranath did not endorse the violent ( crudely anarchic) path but never opposed the endeavour for freedom. He differed with the means, not the ends.
Anyway, let's debate but not in an irrational, obstinate and/or malignant way.
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sun, 24 Nov 2013 22:46:57
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] মার্ক্সবাদীদের প্রতি
No doubt Rabindranath should not be compared with Marx. Rabindranath was great in his own way. I am not sure if he has ever written or said any thing about Marx. In one of his articles late Dr. Ahmad Sharif (ex-professor of Dhaka University and a recipient of Ananda Puroshkar) mentioned that Rabindranath lived in England when Marx was still active. He wondered why Rabindranath had no curiosity about this man who was at that time writing all the radical stuff.Those who have read Sarat Chandra's novel "Pother Dabi" may remember that the said novel indulged in radical thinking and actions. An underground political party was working among the proletarian class in the then Burma with an ultimate objective to free India from the British colonial rule. Although he himself was a veteran Congress leader his hero of the novel dreamed of a "kind of free India" that the Congress party was not fighting for. The book was banned. Sarat requested Rabindranath to protest the ban which the latter declined to do. We cannot say that Rabindranath was in favor of British rule. We can only say that although basic ultimate objective may be same, tactics and strategies may differ let alone the desired time frame.
On Saturday, November 23, 2013 9:15 AM, Sankar Kumar Ray <sankarray62@rediffmail.com> wrote:
Dear Farida:
Thanks for the article on Hobsbawm, a hot favourite, and a legendary historian but not a great Marxist. Did you find any reference on two of the greatest Marxists of the 20th Century - M Rubel and Anton Pannenko? They and Riazanov were unquestionably the 3 greatest Marx scholar, much much above Lenin, Trotsky, Bukharin and even Lukacs and Gramsci.
About Rabindranath. Please read Paresh Chattopadhyay's Manusher Mukti-Marx in Saradiya Anustup of 1417. PC, drew parallel between Rabindranath and Marx. BS. Rabindranath understood alienation as the fall-out of aggressive capitalism in not only essays of co-operation but in Raktakarabi.
Farida, kindly read communism of Marx and Engels. Marx called of 'collective self-authority'.. Rabindranath- sammilito atmokortritwa.Marx and Rabindranath had different world outlook but they had no difference on the dangers of State and society of free and mutually cooperative society unlike Lenin,Stalin,Mao and Trotsky too.
I think moderrators too did not read the papers I sent. I am helpless. I maintain that Amra Sabai Raja encapsulates the essence of communist or socialist society.
Best,
Sankarda
From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sat, 23 Nov 2013 04:22:29
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] মার্ক্সবাদীদের প্রতি
Sankar da,
Don't be fooled with "amra sobai raja". It is a stunt! I have never reconciled with Rabindranath's Raja-preeti. Here is an article on Eric Hobsbaum that I think you will enjoy.
Published on The Nation (http://www.thenation.com/)The Man Who Knew Almost Everything
Ramachandra Guha | November 12, 2013CC: bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com
From: shahdeeldar@yahoo.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 18:27:42 -0800
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] মার্ক্সবাদীদের প্রতি
I am not sure what these people are humping on but this quiz show might help some of our diehards to alleviate their gas and other ailments. Enjoy!
-SD
http://www.rediffmail.com/cgi-bin/red.cgi?account_type=1&red=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DvZ9myHhpS9s&isImage=0&BlockImage=0&rediffng=0"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss
On Wednesday, November 20, 2013 6:40 PM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Marx had a Math Manuscripts, one Manuscript on chemistry, several on geology and ethnology."
Mr. Ray, what does the above statement mean?
You said Marxism is a jungle; I think your above statement reflect that jungle. It appears to me that - you have been spending enormous amount of your time and effort studying and promoting Marxism. What's the objective? Do you see Marxism is coming back slowly, and it will be fully implemented someday? Or, you see a new social philosophy is being born in America, China, Russia, and Europe out of fusion of Capitalism and Marxism. I see the latter scenari
