You got me wrong. Have I ever said that I love communism or Marxism? Rather I have said that probably nobody in the forum wants Marxism as a state principle. Therefore my coming to America has nothing to do with the debate. My only appeal to every participant is to be analytical and logical. Rabindranath in 1930 predicted that the system would not survive long although he praised many programs that the USSR undertook. This is called openness of mind. We can still learn from him. Re-read it if you have time.
Communism has failed in many countries. We can only analyze why it has happened. What were the weaknesses of and threats against the system? I think Rashiyar Chithi has done a pretty good job in this regard.
Now let us think about why much adored democracy which has so many versions has also failed here and there. It has failed, for example, in Bangladesh and Pakistan many a time. It does not mean that we have to negate democracy once and for all. We can only analyze why it works and why it does not work. By the by, there is something called democratic centralism in communism.
I see you are an Islamist (revealed in the last para of your post). Why are you in America? Do you think your dream will be fulfilled here? Is it not hypocrisy? Mine is not hypocrisy at all as I love the openness and freedom of speech in America.
Sent from my iPhone
Sent from my iPhone
You should start with "Rashiyar Chithi" by Rabindranath.
>>>>>>>> As I said, the system sounds the best among all known systems. However it is not a practical solution and failed all over the world. I have read Rashiyar Chiti many many years ago and (Like most writer of that era) they were impressed.
I would also say that era (When our people were seeking way out of colonial master--who were capitalists) influenced Nazrul and many others. Even it influence a wrong translation of the verse in the holy Qurán (By Yusuf Ali). We also know Netaji Shubash Chandra Bose tried to forge a pact with the Nazi regime (When he had fundamental differences with Nazi ideologies).
So it is important to take everything in context. Most of the western world was falling in love with communist systems. I do not have enough time debating about it but I can say that after independence people like yourself chose to migrate to capitalist countries. If communism was such a compelling concept, WHY we did not see a surge in our people to settle in communist countries? Bottom line is it is an awful system in producing wealth. As I said earlier just imagine if Rabindranath (As a son of a Zamindar) was forced to become a tea boy!!
While I admire the spirit of a moral society, I found my answer to such a society in Islamic ideology (Where best of free marker and socialist ideals live side by side). I welcome you to keep searching your solution but it would be a bit hypocritical to be supportive of communist system while you live in Mecca of capitalism.
Take care.
Shalom!
-----Original Message-----
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 30, 2013 2:40 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] "Amra Sobai Raja Amader Aai Rajar Rajatteye …."
Blind faith and less informed but confident assertions need to be replaced by careful comparative study of various systems. You should start with "Rashiyar Chithi" by Rabindranath. If you don't have time and temperament , forget about it. That would be OK.
Sent from my iPhoneYou "think" communism steals freedom from common people and misuse talent.
>>>>>>>>> It is not a matter of opinion. There are plenty of examples from last 100 years all over the world.
, let me ask you: do you think that under the alternative systems, common people are enjoying absolute freedom and can choose their career paths according to their talents?
>>>>>>>>>> In free capitalist countries they have a better chance of living up their potential than any communist countries.
"It is disagreement at fundamental level" probably means that you don't want to engage in a debate as you are afraid
>>>>>>>>>>
Nope. It means I do not have unlimited time and I have examined these alternatives (Spent a lot of time in thinking about it) and came to conclusion on it. I mean if anyone presents a compelling case for communism, I am ready to listen but so far have not seen it.
Obviously I respect the spirit of equality and fair treatment but this model failed all over the globe and there is NO historical evidences of success of such a system either.
Take care.
Shalom!
-----Original Message-----
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:29 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] "Amra Sobai Raja Amader Aai Rajar Rajatteye …."
Good works of a few zaminders are definitely appreciated. But it was inevitable for feudalism to surrender to capitalism as an essential part of a historical process.You "think" communism steals freedom from common people and misuse talent. Just for the sake of argument, let me ask you: do you think that under the alternative systems, common people are enjoying absolute freedom and can choose their career paths according to their talents?"It is disagreement at fundamental level" probably means that you don't want to engage in a debate as you are afraid that it may change your mind or you have the preconceived notion about the system and you are not going to change your mind any way.
On Friday, November 29, 2013 9:31 AM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
There is a difference between good leadership and bad leadership.
Some of the members (Member Subimol) knows about Nawab Faizun nisa of Comilla. Her good works is still there are her family members are still respected. There are other type of zamidars who thought being a leader is like getting a license to have fun for rest of their lives. Lot like many political leaders of Bangladesh. Which is not the definition of good leader.
During British colonial era many zamindars gave their lives fighting British colonial masters. Rabindranath was a member of Zamdari family as well. His wealth supported his talent and Bangla speaking people enjoy the results.
With due respect, I fundamentally disagree with communist ideology. I think it steals freedom from common people and misuse talent. Just imagine if Rabindranath was forced to sell tea or pick cotton!!
It is a disagreement at fundamental level and I do not wish to waste any of your precious time debating it.
Wishing Happy Thanks giving.
Shalom!
-----Original Message-----
From: Sankar Kumar Ray <sankarray62@rediffmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 28, 2013 8:58 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] "Amra Sobai Raja Amader Aai Rajar Rajatteye …."
আপনার কথা শুনে ছোট বেলার একটা চলতি টিপ্পনির কথা মনে পড়ছে- এন পি পি - 'না পড়ে পন্ডিত'। অনিচ্ছা সত্বেও টিপ্পনির উল্লেখ করলাম। 'প্রমথ চৌধুরীর 'রায়তের কথা'র ভূমিকা থেকে একটিউদ্ধৃতি দিছি (সময় থাকলে আরো বেশী দিতে পারতাম, পারছিন। এ জন্যে দুঃখিত।
'এই জিনিসটার ( অর্থাৎ জমিদারী- শ . রা ) 'পরে আমার শ্রদ্ধার একান্ত অভাব। আমি জানি, জমিদার জমির জোঁক, সে প্যারাসাইট, পরাশ্রিত জীব। আমরা পরিশ্রম না ক'রে, উপার্জন না ক'রে, কোন দায়িত্ব গ্রহণ না করে, কোনো যথার্থ দায়িত্ব গ্র হণ না ক'রে ঐশ্বর্য ভোগের দ্বারা দেহকে অপটু ও চিত্তকে অলস করে তুলি। যাঁরা বীর্যের দ্বারা বিলাসের অধিকার লাভ করে, আম
