Thank you very much, Mr. Mirza. I totally agree with you that these block headed 'mullahs' are nothing but a burden to the society. In fact, they are more harmful than being mere burden - they are the agents of destruction of our culture and the country.
- AR
From: "Syed Mirza Skmirza.mirza@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Jamal Hasan <poplu@hotmail.com>; Tareq Hasan <tareq.hasan73@gmail.com>; Syed Haque <syedhaque@hotmail.com>; "farida_majid@hotmail.com" <farida_majid@hotmail.com>; Hussain Suhrawardy <shahadathussaini@hotmail.com>; Faruque Alamgir <faruquealamgir@gmail.com>; Syed Aslam <syed.aslam3@gmail.com>; "rezaul_khan@yahoo.com" <rezaul_khan@yahoo.com>; "helala7@yahoo.com" <helala7@yahoo.com>; mohib ullah <mohibullah1@gmail.com>; Golam Akhter <akhtergolam@gmail.com>; Gonojagoron Moncho <projonmochottar@gmail.com>; "epannah@yahoo.com" <epannah@yahoo.com>; "mohibul.ezdanikhan@posten.se" <mohibul.ezdanikhan@posten.se>; "faithcomilla@gmail.com" <faithcomilla@gmail.com>; Abid Bahar <abid.bahar@gmail.com>; Mohamed Habibullah <zarfzahra@yahoo.com>; Isha Khan <bdmailer@gmail.com>; Molla A.LATIF <mollaltf@gmail.com>; Abdul Mannan <abman1971@gmail.com>; "Abdul_momen@hotmail.com" <abdul_momen@hotmail.com>; "aleem53@yahoo.com" <aleem53@yahoo.com>; "anis.ahmed@netzero.net" <anis.ahmed@netzero.net>; "omasifuli@gmail.com" <omasifuli@gmail.com>; 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Sent: Monday, 27 October 2014, 0:10
Subject: [mukto-mona] Re: Response to Mr Syed Mirza's email
DeEldar Shahab,
Many thanks for your encouraging comments. Your comments are highly emboldening towards our endless fight with all those ignorant Islamic zombies who are desperately unproductive and weird parasites for our modern world. Islamists do not belong to our modern world at all. Islamists are unproductive, as always, these mullahs remain dependent upon the civilized and enlightened people for their need and support. They never produce anything because they are useless Islamic zombies who only know how to pray 5 times for their delusional Allah who ask them to hate all people and kill all non-muslims randomly. That is what they are doing in Iraq and Syria now. Entire modern world must unite to fight these evils until they are totally destroyed. Thanks again.
SKM
On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Shah DeEldar <shahdeeldar@gmail.com> wrote:
Good work indeed! Thank you.-SD
Maybe, Muslims do not need to be great scientists and freethinkers as long as others are doing the jobs and spreading the fruits?On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 6:29 AM, Syed Mirza <skmirza.mirza@gmail.com> wrote:Dear All:Quite obviously, article by Dr. A Rahman correctly narrated the real truth about the 'Islamic Golden Age' that was blossomed during the ancient Arabia.Muslims in general and Islamists (ISIS, al-Qaeda jiadi types) in particular erroneously do believe that--it was the Islamic religion which brought 'Islamic Golden Age' and they believe that Koran is the store-house of all science. That is, islamists and gullible muslims strongly believe that bringing islamic purification and their fanatic belief in Islam or Islamic Sharia will bring back the ancient Golden age for them again. Fact is 180 degree opposite. Ironically, the so called 'Islamic Golden Age' was all about the success of some Muslim-born freethinkers (who were in fact non-believers or not so good believers) together with many non-muslim luminaries during the period of liberal freethinking Caliphs of Abbasid dynasty. Readers can read the life stories of several Muslim-born ancient luminaries in my article below.It was the "SECULARISM AND DEMOCRACY" which can boost for science and not any RELIGION for sure. The European Renaissance was born in the yoke of SACULARISM AND DEMOCRACY. Europe was in the "Dark Age" as long as they were submerged with religious dogmas under the Roman Catholics. Scores of scientists, freethinkers lost their life at the hands of fantasist coreligionists. Even today, any country that took the religion as their state constitution is living under the spell of darkness and they are taking a journey driving their locomotive in the reverse gear. And this is very true in the field of science. Good examples are Iran, Saudi Arabia, and all other Muslim countries as well. As long as all the Muslim countries remain under the clutch of religion Islam, Muslims will never be able to compete in the field of science with the rest of the world. The less religious orthodoxy, the more achievement in science. That explains Muslim's relative advancement around Ninth/Tenth centuries inspired by Mu'tazilites (rational thinkers with less orthodoxy) and Christian Europe's backwardness (closed minds with more orthodoxy). It can be summarized the fact that the so called Islamic Golden Age was not any product of Islamic scriptural knowledge, nor it was due to any degree of devoutness of religion Islam, rather it was due to short-lived opportunity of freethinking and rationalism induced by the famous Mu'tazillites and facilitated by the liberal minded Abbasid Kingdom.Please read here my full article on the Islamic Golden Age:
Thanks.SKM
On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 8:14 AM, Jamal Hasan <poplu@hotmail.com> wrote:A recent writing of Dr. Anisur Rahman may give some food for thought:
Science and Islam
A. Rahman
The title of this write-up may seem a little incongruous as common perception dictates that science and religion are essentially two different entities. That may be true, but there was a time, some centuries ago, when Islam and science were good bedfellows ushering in what is graciously called the "Golden Age" of Islam. Sometimes this Golden Age is flashed around to proclaim an illustrious ancestry of Islam and implicitly claim that Islam can attain the same greatness in this modern world. At other times, die hard Islamists insist that to achieve greatness one has to go back to the period when this was achieved and hence they hark back to 7th century conditions including the establishment of Sharia laws. So, what is this "Golden Age"? In essence, the Islamic kingdom from the beginning of 8th century to the middle of 13th century is assigned as the glorious period when science and technology, art and culture, music and medicine and so forth all flourished under the patronage of the state. The Arab kingdom, under the Umayyad Caliphate from 661AD to 750AD having Damascus as the capital and then the Abbasid Caliphate from 751AD to 1258AD having Baghdad as the capital, was the melting pot of all human knowledge. The reason for such an epoch rise in human culture and knowledge within just a few decades of the establishment of Islam was that the kingdom that encompassed Persia on the East to Lebanon on the West, Egypt and North Africa on the South to the steeps of Asia Minor on the North brought together the talents from all corners of the kingdom and beyond. Greek science and technology, arts and literature were all translated into Arabic and ilm or knowledge was actively encouraged by the state. All great minds of the kingdom were given all the accumulated knowledge – translated from Greek, Latin etc. – and encouraged to pursue knowledge unencumbered by theological constraints. "Go even unto China to seek knowledge" was the guiding philosophy of that period. Tremendous progress was made in many scientific fields, many new disciplines had been invented. Algebra was invented by Muhammad al-Khwarizmi (780 – 850AD) – a Persian working in Baghdad, who not only introduced Indian decimal concept and numeral system but also put forward logical thinking in a form which came to be known as Algorithm. This algorithm is used even now as the starting point of computer programming. Another Persian, Muhammad al-Farabi (872 – 950AD) was the most prominent scientist and philosopher of the day and wrote on physics, cosmology, psychology, philosophy and on many more. Yet another Persian scholar Abu Rayhan al-Biruni (973 – 1048AD) was regarded as one of the greatest scholars of the medieval Islamic era and was well versed in physics, mathematics and other natural sciences. He was a prolific scientific writer and wrote 146 treatises. His major accomplishment was that he calculated the circumference of the earth using his trigonometric methods and that calculation came within 200 miles of the actual circumference of 24,900 miles! He was a great linguist too – he could converse in Persian, Arabic and Sanskrit, and knew Greek, Hebrew and Syriac. Muhammad Zakariya al-Razi (854 – 925AD) of Persia was the pioneer in medical sciences who invented distillation of alcohol and its use in medicine, identified measles and small pox and wrote a treatise on them which remained the guiding light for centuries. He was the author of the encyclopaedia of medicine spanning over twenty three volumes. Abu al-Husayn ibn-Sina was a philosopher and the most authoritative physician of the day (980 -1037 AD) and produced multi-volume medical survey which was translated into Latin. There were many more physicists, mathematicians, astronomers and medical professionals who contributed to the great achievements of that "Golden Age". Now, did that great assimilation of knowledge in the "Golden Age" disappear almost all of a sudden following the collapse of Abbasid Caliphate as a result of Mongol invasion in 1258? Can an empire as well as the human achievement and intellect disappear overnight? Admittedly, other civilisations of the past such as the Greek Civilisation, Indian Civilisation, Chinese Civilisation etc. all came and gone, but none did disappear without a trace of intellectual heritage for future generations to follow as in the case of Islamic "Golden Age". To seek out the answer one has to look back at what was happening at the dying days or years of the Abbasid Caliphate. Like any great empire in decline, Abbasid Caliphate was disintegrating for quite some time. In Spain, Christians reconquered Cordoba in 1236 and then Seville in 1248. But the last nail in the coffin was the siege and occupation of Baghdad by Mongols in 1258, thereby bringing an end to the dying empire. For decades or even a century or over, there were internal tension and conflict between the Mu'tazilites who embraced rational thinking and inquisitiveness and the Ash'arités who were anti rationalists. This Ash'arités movement was dogmatic Sunni Muslim movement which held the view that rationalist view was anti-Islamic. Things do happen as God wishes to happen, not as a priori or a posteriori. Abu Hamid al-Ghazali (1058 – 1111AD) argued that rationalism was incompatible with Islamic teaching. As God's will is completely free and unencumbered, His wishes are supreme and could not be compromised by rationalisation of causes and effects. A storm takes place because God wishes it that way to punish the affected people for their misdeeds, not as a result of meteorological condition. Rain falls not as a result of precipitation and condensation of cloud, but by sheer God's will. By his dogmatic interpretation of Islam he gave a philosophical underpinning of religion and brought Sunni Islam very close to Sufi philosophy. Following the collapse of Abbasid Caliphate, Ash'arités movement supported by Ghazalites took hold in the Islamic world. From that time on, Islam had been going on the opposite direction to the Western Christianity which embraced Renaissance and Age of Enlightenment. Admittedly, Christianity had its turbulent periods when different theological strands vied against each other and did everything to eliminate each other, but eventually rationality prevailed over darkness. Christianity came out of the dark ages bruised and battered, but with its theology intact as long as its boundary is properly demarcated and ring fenced. In other words, in Christianity theology is numinous undertaking segregated from the workings of the nation state. Islam does not want to accept such segregation of duties and responsibilities. It wants to encroach on the state responsibilities covering politics, economics, education and every other field of human endeavour. How could a state function when religion tells that there is no rationality, no cause and effect; everything moves as God desires? How could state develop economically or intellectually when religion puts a stopper over its advancement? One simple event will expose this disconnect. Some years ago, when I went from Britain to Saudi Arabia as a Consultant on Radiological Protection, I was invited to present a paper on 'Effects of radiation on human beings' at an international seminar in Riyadh. The seminar was very well attended with many British, American, German, Swedish and Finnish experts. There were high level Saudi presence too including the Saudi Interior Minister, Health Minister and Saudi Atomic Energy Commission's chairman and so forth. As I presented my paper in English, it had to be translated into Arabic as I spoke. During the presentation, I said that there was a contemporary scientific view that radiation might have caused mutation in human genes that helped the process of evolution. My translator, a clever Egyptian man, stopped at that point and then came over to me to say, "Sir, I cannot translate this line. If I do, not only I but also you would be arrested for blasphemy." Then it dawned on me that this is the fundamentalist country where there is no evolution, God made everything. We proceeded without this sentence and any other reference to Darwinism. In most of the fundamentalist Muslim countries, education at schools, colleges and universities proceed without any reference to evolution, natural selection etc. Islamic teaching takes precedence over scientific developments – God created earth, sun, moon and everything some 10,000 years ago; everything happens as God desires; human beings must pray to God to please Him and He will give things as He pleases. With such blockheadedness, it is no wonder that science and technology have disappeared from the Islamic world. Physics Nobel Laureate Steven Weinberg (who shared the prize with Abdus Salam and Sheldon Glashow in 1979) said, "Though there are talented scientists of Muslim origin working productively in the West, for forty years I have not seen a single paper by a physicist or an astronomer working in a Muslim country that was worth reading." Theoretical physicist Abdus Salam Even Prof Abdus Salam, a Muslim of Pakistani origin, who carried out his groundbreaking research in the UK, had to suffer the ignominy of being declared a non-Muslim by the Pakistani authorities as he was of the Shia Ahmadi sect. Before his death in 1996, he wished to be buried at his home country, Pakistan. After the burial, he was declared non-Muslim and his graveyard was desecrated by Muslim zealots! From time to time, Western leaders patronisingly speak about Muslim heritage and scientific and intellectual contributions to civilisations, but the fact remains that those contributions were nearly 1,000 or more years ago and mostly by people (Shias) who are now considered either non-Muslims or renegade Muslims by Wahhabi Sunnis. Now, going back to the fundamental question, what caused the catastrophic collapse of "Golden Age" of Islam after the fall of Abbasid Caliphate? Why it could not have been revived in any of the 56 Muslim majority states of the world? The answer is quite simple. Islam, or its fundamental version of it, is not compatible with science and technology. Prof. Steven Weinberg claimed that after Ghazali there was no more science worth mentioning in Islamic countries. Only way Islamic countries can revive the culture of scientific studies is to relegate Islam to back burners, far away from the state functions. In other words, there should be strict enforcement of secularism and that should be institutionalised. Otherwise, Islam will keep creeping back to damage scientific disciplines. -
See more at: http://opinion.bdnews24.com/2014/10/25/science-and-islam/#sthash.MoLefelO.dpuf
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 18:40:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Response to Mr Syed Mirza's email
From: shahdeeldar@gmail.com
To: skmirza.mirza@gmail.comI was implicit while you are more explicit in your expression. The content does not change with a new translation. If the words are really God's words, then there would be never a precise translation? How can a mortal man do this job right when our planets and stars would never be aligned in another billion years. A defense argument? :-)-SD .On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Syed Mirza <skmirza.mirza@gmail.com> wrote:You mean, old wine in new bottle? But wine remains the same old hate-filled toxic drink for the devout muslims who has very little grey matter. Most pity thing is in Muslim society, educated muslims are more blind than half or no educated muslims. Look at their style of logic and judgement. Look at the peculiarity of the new translations by the so called Shaeeh International nonsensical distortion of the verses but could not change the evil face of the Koranic dictum at all. How can any God orders his creation to fight and kill the fellow people just because they do not agree with them? Does it make any sense? Convert or die? World must be a mad place!SKMSKMOn Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Shah DeEldar <shahdeeldar@gmail.com> wrote:Look, Mr. T. Hassan has only tried to put the very same content in another bottle. Does it really change the content qualitatively? I think not. But, the man understood the gravity of the problem and tried to come up with an answer whether that is good enough or not. Thank you.-SDOn Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Syed Mirza <skmirza.mirza@gmail.com> wrote:Dear Mr. Hasan,Thanks for your response. But, your arguments about correct translation and correct interpretations, context, etc are unacceptable here. Because, I have used Koranic verses which is from the Maolana Yousuf Ali's Koranic translation which is one of the oldest and best choice by the Saudi King's Koranic foundation and it is one of the best from the list of Saudi King,s certified Koranic translations by the various reputable Islamic scholars. Saudi King has certified this Koranic translation by Yousuf Ali as the best of all. And, hundreds of millions of devout and not so devout Muslims are readily using Yousuf Ali's Koranic translation. Your so called correct translation by some convert western Muslims is not certified by Saudi King. However, I have read translated Koran by at least 15 different Islamic scholars and I found not much variations among the translations. They all are speaking the same thing more or less and basic message remains the same. Mr. Mahfuzur Rahman also told us the same. Most importantly, 100% Muslims and non-muslims respect the translated Koran by Yousuf Ali and nobody reads or care for the translated Koran by your so called Saheeh International translated Koran at all. Besides, Saudi King (the only Custodians of the religion of Islam) has already distributed hundreds of millions of Koranic copies translated by Mauolana Yousuf Ali and others likes of him to the whole world so far. Devout Muslims are reading and researching translated Koran by Yousuf Ali and others for the last 50 + years now. And, Jihadists are readily evolving every minute by reading those Koranic translation and by reading pure Arabic Koran too! Do you think Saudi King Koranic Sura will accept your Hog-wash translated Koran and they will replace all Koran by this wishful nonsense? In fact, if you submit this translation to Saudi Koranic board, the Saudi King will behead you for the blasphemy. Remember what Saudi did to that new translator Rashad Khalifa? They assassinated him brutally right inside his home.However, by reading some of your samples: I have concluded that your translated Koran is no translation at all. It is simply the distortion and biased mistranslated version of the Holy Koran which will never be accepted by the Saudi Koranic board or by any Islamic scholar. Your so called Shaeeh translation is simply a pure 'Hog-Wash'. Even your 'Hog wash' could not make Koran fully sanitized from the evil hate-filled teachings of Holy Koran.Holy Koran is written in Arabic. Most of the jihadists and their Gurus are Islamic pundits having their mother tongue Arabic and their Gurus like Osama bin Laden et al, and their Caliph Dr. Abu Bakr Al- Bagdadi is a Ph.D. in Islamic theology and his mother tongue is, of course, pure Arabic. Now, how in the world these people need your 'Hog-wash' version of Koran to understand the simple language of Koran?Please do me a favour. Take your Koran to the Caliph Abubakr Al bagdadi of ISIS tell him to read your Koran and change their mind and be peaceful Muslim and shut down the entire Jihad campaign/plan which has already shaken the whole world. By the way, if you go to ISIS to give your so called right translation of Holy Koran please remember that nobody of your team will be able to return back with your head intact. ISIS jihadi will immediately behead you all for your distortion of Holy Koran.Also do the following please: Ask Saudi King to remove all variety of Korans (Hundreds of Millions of copies) from the face of the earth and burn them all and replace them by your Shaheeh Translated Koran.Also answer me the following questions below:Here are my questions:1. Could I know where did you find in Koran that Allah told muslims to read Koran with interpretation and contextual judgement?2. Please give me a verse where Allah told you to apply the meanings of any verses by contextual judgement?3. Please answer me: Do you believe that Koran is the eternal and immutable words of Allah?Please read this verses below:(Quran-3:7)— "He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are clear and decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. But none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding."Allah says in Quran that, "I made Qur'an very clear, simple and easy and written in Arabic (Verses: 44:58, 54:22, 54:32, 54:40) so that Muslims (Arabs of course) can understand very easily?" Please listen what Merciful Allah says in Qur'an: " But We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition? (54:22); and "We have made it a Qur'an in Arabic, that ye may be able to understand and learn wisdom (43:3)". Allah emphatically declared that He made Quran very easy so that Muslims can understand very easily. If the verse said: "kill the infidels" that order of Allah remains valid until dooms day (Qiamot).Rapid increase of Muslims in the west:About your bragging about Billions of Muslims, rapid increase of Muslims in the western world is another delusion for Muslims like you. Muslims multiplications in the west is only by rapid procreation (breeding like rabbits) by ignorant muslims and mostly by rapid Immigration from the poor Muslim world to the western paradise and NOT by so called rapid conversion as you think. Please read the attached article about rapid increase of muslims in the west.Thanks a lot.Sincerely,SKMOn Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Tareq Hasan <tareq.hasan73@gmail.com> wrote:Assalamu Alikum,Please view the attached files for my response to Mr Syed Mirza and PDF file containing complete Holy Quran in English.sincerely,Tareq Hasan
__._,_.___
