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Sunday, November 23, 2014

Re: [mukto-mona] RE: Annual Celebration of Mahrram (Ashoura) another Beauty of Islam for the world to see!



What are you bringing now?
The characters you are bringing now are either imaginary or, may be, real characters of the epic stories of Ramayon and Mahabharata. If we believe them as real, they depict pictures of infidelity and cruelty that existed in the then society. That could be the reason why sound religious and moral codes and principles were needed. The question is - have those characters, you have quoted, influenced religious philosophies of Hinduism?
Let's think about religious philosophies of Shree-Choitannya, Ramakrishna,  and Vivekananda, etc.? How much those characters influenced their philosophies? I would say – nothing at all.
Religious philosophies were there to counter all the ills of the then society, not to glorify them. You are perhaps not paying attention this point. Think about the over all religious philosophy, not certain typical social characters.
You keep mixing up Gods and Goddesses with other human characters. I told you religion is not for Gods and Goddesses. Religion is for the human. The role of Gods and Goddesses is to fight bad social elements to establish virtue. For that, they may need to be violent at times, so humans won't have to be. That's why religious philosophies of Hinduism never encouraged violence from human beings. I will agree with you - if you say, that's why Hindus are inherently timid people. But, that's a different topic for another day.
Thanks.

Jiten Roy

 
From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2014 1:18 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: Annual Celebration of Mahrram (Ashoura) another Beauty of Islam for the world to see!

 
Indra is well known for his notoriety and corruption. Indra seduced Ahalya, wife of sage Goutam. Gods and goddesses were divided in the Trojan war. Kunti got pregnant with Karna after worshipping Sun god. There has been an interpretation that that Kunti came into physical contact with Sun to conceive. 

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On Nov 22, 2014, at 9:21 PM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
"Gods and goddesses were not always compassionate and kind."

I think, you are confused. Religious philosophies are for human, not for Gods and Goddesses. And, I do not know if any religious philosophies in Hinduism encourages violence against human beings. A religion that allows multiple philosophies, cannot be an authoritarian in nature, and it cannot be violent.
Those Gods and Goddesses, you mentioned, are supposed to fight against devils on earth, so ordinary human-beings can live in peace. Hinduism never encouraged human-beings to fight against devils; Krishna said – He will come to fight against devils, meaning God is protector and affectionate. I hope you will understand now.   
Jiten Roy

 
From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2014 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: Annual Celebration of Mahrram (Ashoura) another Beauty of Islam for the world to see!

 
Gods and goddesses were not always compassionate and kind. They were sometimes were vindictive and cruel. They used to take sides and fought with one another. That created divisions in the society. That caused many battles. There were many divine authorities and powers. I think this led to the conception of one God and One supreme power. True, as we look around we see that the problem has not been solved. 

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On Nov 22, 2014, at 10:54 AM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Yes, all monotheistic religions have roots in Paganism. In fact, all monotheistic religions must have emanated from Paganism. The so called revelation doctrine was necessary for attaining authenticity of the monotheistic ideology at that time. Also, monotheistic religions needed authoritative power of God to survive at that time and sustain its growth in the long run.
So, their God is almighty, who run an autocratic religious empire, where any decent is met with dire consequences. Followers become slaves of God; they are possessive of their faiths. And, just like a jealous lover, followers can turn violent instantly when sentimental space is trespassed.  
Paganism and other multi-theistic religions, on the other hand, are democratic in nature, where followers enjoy freedom of choice. In here, the image of God is kind and compassionate, and followers are relatively peaceful.
Everything on this earth happens out of natural cause and effect. Be that Paganism or  monotheism, human ingenuity is at the root of all these ideologies.
Jiten Roy

 
From: "Kamal Das kamalctgu@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2014 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: Annual Celebration of Mahrram (Ashoura) another Beauty of Islam for the world to see!

 
A French proverb says it succinctly,"plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose" - the more it changes, more it looks the same. In spite of the claim of revelation through some kind of hotline, each of monotheistic practices has roots in paganism.

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On Nov 22, 2014, at 6:45 AM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
What you are saying is that – these religious rituals have been adopted from some past practices of the pre-Islamic societies. It makes sense, because - earliest Muslims were all converted Muslims also. So, it was natural that – some of those earlier practices will get into the Islamic practices.
Jiten Roy

 
From: "Kamal Das kamalctgu@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: Annual Celebration of Mahrram (Ashoura) another Beauty of Islam for the world to see!

 
Imam Hasan, the elder brother, was poisoned by one of his concubines according to Prof. Hitti. The younger brother went to fight Yazid's army where thousands of Quran - e - Hafiz took up arms against him. Self flagellation, though an Assyrian rite to lament the inability to do anything in time, was adopted by the Shias to lament the martyrdom of Hussain. Ashoura/Ashura day was sacred to the Jews since long before the advent of Islam. On this day, exodus from Egypt happened. It is an Islamic belief that the world would cease to exist on a Tuesday of tenth of Muharram. So, be aware!

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On Nov 21, 2014, at 6:48 AM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Yes, Muharram is nothing but a way of self-experiencing the sufferings of Prophet's grandsons at the hands of Shimar. Many of you have opined that it is not included in the Quran or Hadith. How could it go in any of those books, when Prophet was not alive at the time? So, it makes perfect sense that this ritual was not a part of the Koran.
Although, it is an extreme self-mutilation, but it is a milder form of self-sacrifice in quest of heaven compared to suicide bombing. And, this ritual is a peanut compared to the bloodbath being caused by ISIS.
Many people opined that ISIS people are mot Muslim because Koran does not permit such bloodbath. Others have shown many verses from Koran to support the argument that ISIS is exactly following the instructions of Koran. To counter the latter argument, many have opined that latter group is not using the right translation of Koran.
I was slowly leaning towards the argument that ISIS is absolutely violating Koran with such horrendous violence. They must be following wrong translation of Koran. Now, after I found that self-proclaimed Caliph Abu Bakr Al-Bagdadi has earned a Ph.D. degree in Islamic Theology from the Cairo Al Azhar University, which is the authority on Islamic Theology in the world, and his mother tongue is pure Arabic, I am not so sure that ISIS are not following the right interpretation of Koran. Any thought on this predicament?
Jiten Roy









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Posted by: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>


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