Dear Junaid
There is nothing wrong with asking for a free debate. I have only just done it now for the first time after almost 10 years on the forum. Mr Mohsin is a public figure who has spoken many times in public often against those with differing views. I am a novice in comparison. He may well crush me but that's no reason not to have a debate. I am very argumentative and present argument as best as I can. I wish you would do the same. When I first wrote to him I had no idea who he was. But I did know he was used to the cut and thrust of political debate..
My last email was in keeping with the tone of your last email. You could have argued with me. The tone of our exchanges is set by you.
I would love to meet you because you intrigue me. I know nothing of your politics or your opinions. All I know about you is that you think I am a smug cretin who talks a lot about things he knows nothing about. And though you object handsomely you reveal nothing about yourself or your politics. I am just informing you how you come across to me. I could be wrong.
You are definitely a bigger expert on
I don't know how to have a debate with someone I don't know anything about, personally or politically, on any random subject in front of random people. With Dr Mohsin Ali there are many more sureties.
I have a suggestion in the spirit of friendship. When I am in
I'm sure we won't turn it into a food fight and I promise to be on my best behaviour J
Best wishes
--- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "junaid.sultan" <junaid.sultan@...> wrote:
>
>
> One thing I must appreciate about Mr. Ejazur is his quick response.
>
> I thought that in this forum we try to convince each other to our view
> point by our arguments. Now new dimensions have been added. You can now
> ask for open debates also. Sad! It is not possible for me to visit
> Kuwait. But can we have a debate in Sonargaon (not Sonargaon hotel). I
> am ready to bring any number of people you want, (from any background
> AL, BNP, Jatiaya, Jamaat, Communist, Workers, etc. etc., you name it)
> as long as you pick the bill. I accept all your conditions. I leave it
> you to choose the topic also.
>
> And this is not a joke. I am damn serious. And mind you, I was not
> comparing Dr. Mohsin with Clinton or Obama. To me you are the only
> expert on Bangladesh affairs not Dr. Mohsin.
>
>
>
> Junaid
>
> --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "ezajur" Ezajur@ wrote:
> >
> > The joke of the year award is that I and Dr Mohsin Ali may have a
> debate in NY on the politics of Bangladesh? I suggest this does not
> require imagination but a certain 'in the field mentality'.
> >
> > What does require imagination is comparing Dr Mohsin Ali to Clinton or
> Obama :) I would not dare to debate those two brilliant minds.
> >
> > I must appreciate Junaid's light banter. Thanks Junaid. Keep it light.
> Cheers!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "junaid.sultan" junaid.sultan@ wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Wah! Wah! Ghazab kar dia mere dost
> > >
> > > In seems we are in contest for joke of the year award. I must
> appreciate
> > > the person who is challenging. I must appreciate his height of
> > > imagination. I must appreciate fertility of his brain. However, I
> > > don't think that is the end of the story. Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama
> > > are in the line also. The gentleman may visit Washington when he is
> > > visiting New York all the way from Kuwait. Mrs. Clinton and Mr.
> Obama,
> > > are you ready for the challenge?
> > >
> > > To person who is seconding this challenge, again I will use my very
> > > little knowledge of Urdu language by saying "Khawaja ka gawah
> > > daddu."
> > >
> > > Keep the good work. You are on right track.
> > >
> > > Junaid
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, Faruque Alamgir <faruquealamgir@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Friends
> > > >
> > > > The proposition of Mr. Ezazur is not only courageous but also
> timely
> > > since
> > > > the BALIST have made the life of Bangladeshis hell by playing the
> same
> > > > "Bhanga" record on and on thousands of days and on. They are
> trying
> > > their
> > > > best with the connivance of the congenital liars "Gwan Papis" the
> > > so-called
> > > > self declared Jibis to change the original history of our only
> pride
> > > > the great "Mohan mukti Judhdha".
> > > >
> > > > By such distortion of truth/facts the newly born Projonmo started
> > > believing
> > > > that the *" Historic Bhasha Andolon(the Language Movement)* was
> > > conducted
> > > > from Faridpur Jail and the Mohan Mukti Judhdha was directed from
> > > Cantonment
> > > > jail in Larkana, Pakistan by issuing* "CHIRCUT"(???)*.
> > > >
> > > > Ezazur Bhai go ahead all Bangladeshis are with you and the truth.
> But
> > > > brother, I doubt that whether the opponent do possess the courage
> to
> > > accept
> > > > challenge of truth ???????????
> > > >
> > > > Salam and sincere regards.
> > > >
> > > > Faruque Alamgir
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 2:44 PM, ezajur Ezajur@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe that Sharmila Bose has questioned the narrative of
> people
> > > like
> > > > > you and Farida Majid and that can only be a good thing. As such
> I am
> > > morally
> > > > > obliged to take her side against blind party loyalists like you
> even
> > > though
> > > > > she could have done a much better job and has made mistakes in
> her
> > > approach.
> > > > > I was not around in 1971 - so I'm confident I'm not a rajakar.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lets dance.
> > > > >
> > > > > I shall probably visit NY this summer. I invite you to reserve
> any
> > > venue in
> > > > > Astoria, Woodside, Jamaica etc. Book it for a 100 people
> including
> > > dinner. I
> > > > > will pick up the bill. We will have a frank debate - just you
> and
> > > me. I will
> > > > > come alone but if I can get a local youth organisation to attend
> I
> > > will do
> > > > > so. Please bring your fellow AL doctors, professors, advisors
> and
> > > committee
> > > > > members. I have the following non negotiable conditions:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. At least 20 young people over the age of 18 must attend. At
> least
> > > > > 10 must be children of AL committee members. You must introduce
> me
> > > to each
> > > > > one before the discussion.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. We each speak for 2 sessions of 30 minutes each - ie 2 hours
> in
> > > total.
> > > > >
> > > > > 3. If I am interrupted by your members you pay me $1,000. And
> vice
> > > versa.
> > > > >
> > > > > 4. Two subjects: 1) the 3 million dead of 1971 and 2) the
> difference
> > > > > between your politics and my politics.
> > > > >
> > > > > 5. You can choose any elder to be the conductor as long as he
> has a
> > > beard.
> > > > >
> > > > > I will take any number of questions. There is no winner, just a
> free
> > > > > discussion. You are welcome to bring local Deshi tv. I will also
> > > try. The
> > > > > transcript of the discussion will be edited by a dignitary
> agreed by
> > > both of
> > > > > us in advance of the discussion. The edited transcript will be
> > > available for
> > > > > reproduction without permission from you or me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lets see if you know my real face or if I know your real face.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am waiting for your reply.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ezajur Rahman
> > > > >
> > > > > Kuwait
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. M. Mohsin Ali"
> drmohsinali@
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > SO, MR. EZAJUR, YOU BELIEVE THE STORY OF MS. SHARMILA BOSE
> WHICH
> > > IS THE
> > > > > STORY OF THE PAKISTANI MILITARY ABOUT OUR GREAT LIBERATION WAR.
> YOU
> > > ARE
> > > > > SIGNING WITH THE PAKISTANIS AND THE RAZAKARS. THAT'S WHY YOU
> NEVER
> > > LIKED
> > > > > SHEIKH MUJIB AS HE BROKE YOUR BELAOVED PAKISTAN. THAT IS YOUR
> REAL
> > > FACE.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- On Sat, 5/14/11, ezajur Ezajur@ wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: ezajur Ezajur@
> > > > > > Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: A response to Myth-busting of
> Bangladesh
> > > war of
> > > > > 1971 by Sarmila Bose in english.aljazeera.net
> > > > > > To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Date: Saturday, May 14, 2011, 10:25 AM
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Â
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sarmila Bose has made a stand against the myth of 1971 and the
> > > dominant
> > > > > post war narrative and those who have profited from it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The myth of 1971 is that 3 million people Bengalis were
> > > exterminated. As
> > > > > proven by the lack of any meaningful effort to measure the
> number of
> > > deaths
> > > > > by successive governments of Bangladesh.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The dominant narrative of 1971 has been that the myth of 1971
> is
> > > real and
> > > > > that those who shout about it are those who are fit to govern
> best.
> > > As
> > > > > proven by the behaviour of every successive government.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Those who have profited are those who have publicly promoted
> the
> > > myth and
> > > > > privately benefitted with power and money. As proven by the
> > > behaviour of
> > > > > every successive government.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What Farida cannot abide is that anyone can question anything
> > > about 1971
> > > > > because it is the myth of 1971 that, in her mind, empowers her
> and
> > > her
> > > > > politics, to focus on what they want, ignore what they want and
> rule
> > > as they
> > > > > see fit. Screw them.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The creation of the myth of 1971 was the first step in the
> > > ruination of
> > > > > our country. We have been on our knees ever since. Bridges and
> > > export
> > > > > earnings cannot measure our people. Our people deserve better.
> And
> > > as AL and
> > > > > BNP and Jammat relish the orgy of their gross self indulgence
> they
> > > ignore
> > > > > the future at the nation's peril.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If BNP of JI thugs commit rape, murder and extortion, as they
> do,
> > > the
> > > > > Farida Majids of our country will protest. If AL thugs commit
> rape,
> > > murder
> > > > > and extortion, as they do, the Farida Majids of our country keep
> > > quiet.
> > > > > There are Farida Majids in BNP and JI.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Screw all these bloody hypocrites. They believe they are true
> to
> > > their
> > > > > dead leader, their dead father and their dead values.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They, and the rest of us, will soon enough return to the soil
> of
> > > our
> > > > > country, in which lies buried the truth and best spirit of our
> > > people and
> > > > > our beautiful country.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just look at the condition of our country! You know why there
> is
> > > no class
> > > > > war in Bangladesh? You know know why our guitarists can't bend
> their
> > > knees?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > May our soil accept our flesh and bones as payment for the
> truth
> > > and may
> > > > > that truth embrace the next generation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To all hypocrites - ££££ you!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ezajur Rahman
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Its so loud, inside in my head
> > > > > > With words that I should have said.
> > > > > > As I drown in my regrets
> > > > > > I can't take back
> > > > > > the words I never said.
> > > > > > Lupe Fiasco
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, Farida Majid farida_majid@
> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/05/20115983958114219.h\
> \
> > > tml
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bangladesh war of 1971 Myth-busting Piece by Sarmila Bose in
> Al
> > > > > Jazeera.net :
> > > > > > > Farida Majid
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here we have Sarmila Bose whining on and on against the
> > > `dominant
> > > > > narrative' and pushing her insubstantial book, Dead Reckoning:
> > > Memories of
> > > > > the 1971 Bangladesh War, as a scholarly work that is meant to
> bust
> > > the myth
> > > > > of Bangladesh war of independence in 1971. Her book's spin is
> strung
> > > around
> > > > > a few instances of atrocities committed by Mukti fighters upon
> > > non-Bengali
> > > > > collaborators of Pakistan at the time. No one denies those cruel
> > > acts of
> > > > > retaliation. All wars are cruel and ugly. But by themselves
> those
> > > acts, or
> > > > > her other fieldwork denying widespread rape and murder
> (questioning
> > > the
> > > > > occurrence of any rape by Pakistani soldiers since she could not
> get
> > > figures
> > > > > of exact date, time and place of each sexual assault), have not
> been
> > > able to
> > > > > disprove any of the well-known incidences of crimes against
> humanity
> > > > > committed by an uniformed, fully equipped with modern arms and
> > > ammunition,
> > > > > professionally trained Pakistani army and its Bengali
> collaborators
> > > in 1971.
> > > > > I
> > > > > > doubt whether any of the `uncomfortable truth' she has
> unearthed
> > > could be
> > > > > presented at a War Crimes Tribunal as legal defense against the
> > > charges
> > > > > brought by the Prosecution at such a Tribunal.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The harder Sarmila Bose whines about the `dominant
> narrative'
> > > the
> > > > > fuzzier gets her rationale for wanting to debunk it. Her citing
> of
> > > the
> > > > > example of Lara Logan, the CBS correspondent haplessly caught in
> the
> > > melee
> > > > > of Tahrir Square in Cairo in the spring uprising of 2011, shows
> to
> > > what
> > > > > pathetic extent Bose lacks sympathy and imagination in assessing
> the
> > > overall
> > > > > reality of people's struggle for freedom from oppression. Such
> > > struggles in
> > > > > the annals of history are messy, never picture-book perfect.
> Sarmila
> > > though
> > > > > is unforgiving, and is too mean-spirited to tolerate "freedom
> and
> > > > > democracy-loving people rising up against oppressive dictators."
> She
> > > has to
> > > > > take up the arms of a `scholarly study' to bust the myth!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What is the 'myth' that she is so anxious to bust?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is genocide in Bangladesh, 1971, a myth?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If it is a myth then are we to understand, after Ms Bose's
> > > so-called
> > > > > `research' and report, that genocide did not take place at all
> in
> > > 1971 in
> > > > > the then East Pakistan? The "dominant narrative" is all about
> > > partisan
> > > > > exaggeration and no one in the international community but her
> could
> > > detect
> > > > > the "uncomfortable truth" in all these 40 years.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Who does she mean by those "who have profited for so long
> from
> > > > > mythologising the history of 1971"?
> > > > > > > Does she mean the people of Bangladesh, the world's eighth
> most
> > > > > populous nation? Does `profit' mean gaining the sovereignty and
> > > independence
> > > > > as a nation?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If so, then all nations who have had to fight for
> independence
> > > from a
> > > > > colonized condition ought to be labeled as having "profited from
> > > > > mythologizing history." And that would include United States of
> > > America.
> > > > > > > Go tell an American that the chronicles of wars and battles
> > > fought in
> > > > > the American War of Independence during 1775-1783 are all
> > > mythologised
> > > > > history, and hence a `dominant narrative', a myth that is in
> dire
> > > need of
> > > > > busting!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Let us remind ourselves of the announcement of Gen. Yahya
> Khan
> > > at a
> > > > > radio interview at the launching of the Operation Searchlight in
> > > March, 1971
> > > > > in East Pakistan: "We will kill three million of them, and they
> will
> > > eat out
> > > > > of our hands!" The number â€"3 million â€" is
> immaterial,
> > > though admittedly
> > > > > there is an irresolvable argument that swirls around it. What is
> > > legally
> > > > > relevant here, however, is the clear expression of goal and
> intent
> > > to commit
> > > > > genocide by Pak military apparatus in East Pakistan.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > New evidences are emerging, not just from the victims of the
> war
> > > crimes
> > > > > of 1971, but from the perpetrators themselves. Eye witnesses and
> > > personal
> > > > > encounters from among the Pakistani military personnel are
> coming up
> > > with
> > > > > accounts of General Niazi, General Rao Farman Ali, et al,
> exhibiting
> > > fierce
> > > > > anti-Bengali racism that underscored activities against unarmed,
> > > > > unthreatening civilians. Such activities were regarded as
> > > reprehensive by
> > > > > even the soldiers who carried out the orders because they
> violated
> > > the rules
> > > > > and norms of engagement in warfare. Several books have come out
> over
> > > the
> > > > > years by various Pakistani army personnel including one by the
> > > infamous
> > > > > General Niazi. They are all replete with quotations and records
> of
> > > utter
> > > > > racial contempt for the Bengalis of East Pakistan on the part of
> top
> > > brass
> > > > > military officers in the Pakistani army who wanted at least a
> > > partial
> > > > > destruction of the whole race of Bengalis as a punitive measure
> for
> > > their
> > > > > rebellion.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We can then proceed to take a peek at the following U. N.
> > > Convetion:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Excerpt from the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment
> of
> > > > > Genocide (For full text click here)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any
> of
> > > the
> > > > > following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in
> > > part, a
> > > > > national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > (a) Killing members of the group;
> > > > > > > (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the
> > > group;
> > > > > > > (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life
> > > calculated
> > > > > to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
> > > > > > > (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the
> > > group;
> > > > > > > (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another
> > > group.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Article III: The following acts shall be punishable:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > (a) Genocide;
> > > > > > > (b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;
> > > > > > > (c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;
> > > > > > > (d) Attempt to commit genocide;
> > > > > > > (e) Complicity in genocide. "
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Let us all work for peace as best as each of us can.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Salutes!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Farida Majid
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
__._,_.___
