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Friday, October 7, 2011

[mukto-mona] Would India be better off without British rule?



With my layman knowledge in this vast topic let me submit the following:
  • The colonists in America had to engage in bloody battles with the British army to win freedom. According to a conservative estimate about 50 K had to sacrifice lives because of war and war related (disease for example) reasons. Thus I see a similarity between Indian struggle for independence and American revolutionary war.
  • The colonists came from Europe (mainly Britain). Many of them were adventurists, many were here for business, and many were fortune seekers. Among them were "baape-taaraano maaye-khedano" and even convicts. They had to fight two phases of war. In first phase they had to defeat (plunder, kill, and drive away) the American Indians. The second phase was the war for independence from Britain. Because of the rivalies between various colonial powers, the settlers got help from France and other countries in their fight against Britain (this happened in case of Indian struggle for independence too). So, ultimately it was the Europeans who became the owners of America, which means they became Americans.
  • We see a basic difference in case of India. The British (first in the form of East India Company) came to India for business with the sole purpose of exploitation (milder word is "profit"). Although eventually British crown took over, they never wanted to become an integral part of the "Kala aadmis". They came to loot (that's what basically a colonial power does) and stayed here as long as the circumstances allowed them to do so. Because of her rich civilization it was not easy to win India completely as was possible in case of the American Indians.    
  • Was it really indispensable for India to go through a colonization process to become an India as we see her today? Not an easy question at all. Scholars in this field can provide valued opinions. But I want to mention Japan as an Asian country which hardly went through this painful process and yet could emerge as one of the few number-one countries in the world in many respects. 
  • A word of caution here: Vehement criticism of the roles played by the colonial master does not mean that we must not accept any thing from them. "Poshchim aaji khuliyachhe dwar, setha ho'te sobe aane upohar, dibe aara nibe----" Rennainssance in India owed to the greatest minds that Europe produced. The same minds influenced American revolution also. Rabindranath has talked about exchanges of ideas and thoughts; it could not be merely a one way traffic. These great minds had to face tough resistances in their own countries. All these countries had to go through long processes of reformation. 
  • All countries had monarchs. Many of them (particularly the European ones) used fruits of new inventions to industrialize their countries and expand territorially by finding new colonies. Question is: why did the Indian monarchs fail to follow a similar route of socio-economic development.        

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2011 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Would India be better off without British rule?
 
Pre-British history of India is not well-known. That is a blind-spot in the Indian history. We know intricate details about British era, but not much about Mughal era. It could be due to lack of documentation or resources at the time. British ruled many other parts of the world, including part of North America, which fought a full-fledged battle against British. How come they do not have such strong resentment against British? How come other parts of the world, ruled by British, also do not possess such sentiment against them as Indians do? Indians tend to blame everything on British rule. We blame British for our thinking, we blame British for our administrative bureaucracy, we blame British for our education system, judicial system, communication system, etc. etc.
 
I know what happened in 1919 during the Jallianwallabag massacre, in which British troops opened fire on unarmed civilians in a mass gathering, protesting British rule. This was the time when Gandhi started his anti-British movement, and that's the price we paid to force British out of India. How much price Indians paid during Mughal rule, especially during Babar and Awrangzeb? Anybody has a clue? That is not my point of discussion. My point is - would India be better off without British rule? Let's extrapolate continued Moghal rule for another 200 years and contrast it with the India left behind by British rulers, and analyze the situation. I will appreciate your inputs on this point.
 
Jiten Roy

--- On Wed, 10/5/11, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Tagore wrote Jana Gana Mana For Lord Krishna - Logically Proved.
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 5, 2011, 7:37 PM

 
JitenDa
When you believe that "I am thankful to British for their help in rebuilding India with their modern amenities, education systems, and judiciaries. Yes, they took some wealth back to England. Why not? You do not expect everything for free. Do you? After all, they came to India for business and occupied India for 200 years. They could have taken everything without investing a penny in India", I must say that Singh is right when he/she says that "our (please read 'your') thoughts are still controlled by British."
 
They did not do any thing out of love for the Indians. Every thing good we got was spillovers. Colonial exploitation was endless. Please reflect on what you have read from a typical history book. Think about indigo and poppy cultivation. Think how they put Tajmahal on auction to sell expensive stones after robbing all the gold and other precious metals and stones. Think about Jalianwalabag massacre, the way they retalitaed the sepoy mutiny, and countless other mischiefs. They did only that much as was necessay to carry out their business. Think about in what conditions they left India before running away.   
 
Your comment or love for British rule is not surprising as many among us cherish the same view. That's why it is really thought provoking and as such can be a good topic for debate.
 
Think about a scenario: British did not colonize India. Where would India stand today? Did India really need a colonial master to be what she is today? Could she be better?
 
Please, everybody, put ypour inputs.
 
Regards.
 
-Subimal 
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Tagore wrote Jana Gana Mana For Lord Krishna - Logically Proved.
 
This is what I think – most of Tagore's writing is directed to an imaginary deity. He never revealed what it was. As far as I know -Tagore never mentioned any particular deity in his writings. He was, obviously, aware the existence of this extraordinary spirit, and knew that the source was within him, not anywhere else, meaning it did not come from the sky. He mostly communicated with this spirit through his poems. We all have our own spirit within ourselves. We feel its presence, but cannot give a form to it. That is the God, I believe.
 
This particular poem in question was about praising the King of Bharat, and you cannot depict a King without a chariot. Chariot was not the vehicle of Shree Krishna; he rode one with Arjun as the Charioteer during the Kurukhetra War. So, Chariot does not explain the fact. And conch was like the bugle in those days.
 
You said – your mental speculation is based on eternal truth. I think - the truth is – we don't know the truth.
 
You think India is still under British rule, because our thoughts are still controlled by British. Let's make a mental picture of India in 2011, without the British rule. Shall we? What do you see? I see a nation somewhere in 12th or 13th century. Let me know what you see. Therefore, if you ask me – I am thankful to British for their help in rebuilding India with their modern amenities, education systems, and judiciaries. Yes, they took some wealth back to England. Why not? You do not expect everything for free. Do you? After all, they came to India for business and occupied India for 200 years. They could have taken everything without investing a penny in India. It seems to me that your thoughts are blinded by propaganda, so you are unable to see the benefits of the British rule.
 
Now, about mythological characters – my thought process is not influence by British. When I was born, British left India. If you use rational thinking, you will see the same. Let me give you a specific example of a mythological character. I was watching television the other day, and they were showing Durga Puja festivities in Kolkata. In just one Puja, they spent 40 million rupees to build the deity, and, so far, they already spent about 100 million rupees for this Puja. As soon as this Puja will be over, the same TV station will start showing us starving people dying on the street of Kolkata. Do you think Durga-Ma will relieve their pain and suffering? Now, tell me - what else we could do with that money. How about homeless/destitute senior citizen centers or boarding school for orphans?  Don't you think that would please God more? I think so.
 
Anyway, these are my personal views, not influenced by anybody or anything. Thanks for initiating the discussion, and exchanging your thoughts.  
 
Jiten Roy
--- On Tue, 10/4/11, nihar singh <nihar_singh786@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: nihar singh <nihar_singh786@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Tagore wrote Jana Gana Mana For Lord Krishna - Logically Proved.
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 4, 2011, 11:11 AM

 
I have logically deduced it from Tagore's writings. Who else is an Eternal Charioteer, who possesses a conch. You are underestimating both Tagore and his works. It is mental speculation but it is based on the highest truths. If Tagore were a liar anybody can become a Tagore. It is truth that differentiates Tagore from the rest of the poets. British rule still exists in India and the beliefs that they imposed on us are very much alive and well supported by us.



--- On Mon, 10/3/11, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Tagore wrote Jana Gana Mana For Lord Krishna - Logically Proved.
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, October 3, 2011, 8:25 PM

How do you know what Tagore thought when he wrote that song? He was a poet; he could be thinking any imaginary supernatural power, who he thought running Bharat. Krishna never ran Bharat. Did He? It's all guess and speculations. I think - British were right, most of the characters in the Hindu scriptures are mythological characters.
 
Jiten Roy --- On Mon, 10/3/11, nihar singh <nihar_singh786@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: nihar singh <nihar_singh786@yahoo.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] Tagore wrote Jana Gana Mana For Lord Krishna - Logically Proved.
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, October 3, 2011, 11:38 AM

 
Dear All,
Tagore wrote Jana Gana Mana For Lord Krishna. Please read the short article at
For the complete article read it at 
Please forward this mail to as many people as you can. The British created the myth that our gods and goddesses are mythological characters. This is not true and our Vedic scriptures confirm it. First we must get this sorted out before we create a plan for 2020 in my opinion.
Regards,
Nihar Singh


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