Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Why We Need Words Like 'Islamist' :: Islamism is a distinct phenomenon and different from historic Islam

A thought provoking piece. The concept of ummah is great. Sarojini Naidu once praised the kind of unity the Indian muslims showed. But if we look at what is going on in the current world, we can easily see that the concept of "Ummah" is not working at all. Probably more muslims have been and are still being persecuted and killed by muslims themselves than by non-muslims.

Not only Islam, every religion has its local flavor and unique character as well.  

I have not seen any Bengali muslim who "sighs for" Arabian "shore".

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Why We Need Words Like 'Islamist' :: Islamism is a distinct phenomenon and different from historic Islam

 

KoenRaad Elst is a reputed contemporary Indologist.  One should read his articles to have an idea about what the Muslim rulers did to India.  Due to identity crises, Muslim commoners align with them.  However, there are exceptions, an Urdu poet lamented, "Sar kashi ki kisi Mahmud ne sadiyon pehlay/ Isliye khoob khabar li meray sar ki tumnay// Chand pathar kisi Babur ne geeraye thay kabhi/  Eant se eant bajadi meray ghar ki tumanay."

English:  "For the insurrection of one Mahmud some centuries ago/ You have wrecked vengeance on my head.//  For a Babur who rained stones in the days of yore,/ You have razed to the ground my hearth, my home//."

My point is Muslims should stop thinking that they belong to one umma(nation).  They never were, they never would be.  But for Muslims, India would never be 'one nation' either.  Learn to call spade a spade.  Many Hindus are respectful to Islam, and many Muslims are respectful to other religions.  Keep politics and religion apart.  Two nation theory is faulty.  Muslims have not gained anything by the theory.  Even the Aryans came to India from elsewhere and succumbed to the local culture.  

Islam in the subcontinent is not the same as that in the 'holy' Arabia, or even Indonesia. Forget the past and build the future.  You cannot do it without unity.  Those who destroy peace would not be rewarded with it in their 'afterlife'.

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 8:01 AM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:

Muslims being mostly descendants of spineless converts have a tendency to defend Islam and it's rule.  Their Hindu appeasers, I hope, would be rewarded with 72 houries and 28 gillmans.  Before Mahbub Kamal, I wrote what Bankim said about Pathans(which was wrong anyway).  Only a blind could have missed it.

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 6:40 AM, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:

 

I am not an historian, nor was Bankim. Whatever good he has said about the Pathans has said in a review of a history book written during his time. Mahbub Kamal came up with a new piece of information about Bankim's belief. I have said what I found in Romila Thapar who must be more authentic than R.C. Majumdar or Sir Jadunath Sircar as she is a contemporary historian. 

Being an half-literate man let me write down what I have found in Ghulam Murshid's "Hajar Bochhorer Bangali".

1. Hussain Shah patronized Bengali language and literature

2. He maintained noticeable peaceful environment in the country

3. His PM, Chief bodyguard, chief secretary, chief medical officer were Hindus.

4. His minister Sanatan Goswami and chief secretary Rup Goswami were great Vaishnab scholars.

5. Under his patronization many Sanskrit poetry books were written.

6. Many subsequent Hindu litereteurs including Mukundaram Chakrabarty have praised him.

7. Hussein Shah's son Nasiruddin Nusrat Shah also maintained the same tradition. 

8. The ruler of Chittagong got the Mahabharata translated into Bengali (not into Persi as was done by Dara Shiko in case of the Upanishads) by Kabindra Parameshwar. 

 There are more.   

 

Please contact Ghulam Murshid if you do not agree. I am helpless.

 

I am not sure whether with your "perfect" knowledge about every thing that you talk about, you will not get lost into the oblivion.

From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 8:35 PM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Why We Need Words Like 'Islamist' :: Islamism is a distinct phenomenon and different from historic Islam

 

I have complete works of Vivekananda in my possession.  In course of my reading them, I have found plenty of ignorance.  Anybody who considers Ramakrishna a God, may also find Vivekanannda an institution.  To me he was nothing more than a conjurer, just another rogue in the world of religion.  He used religion as a good business.  After becoming a saint, no body goes to court against mother and brother claiming a fair share of paternal property as he did.  These 'institutions' were not harmless. Hindus believed Javans(Ionians), Mlecchas(Phoenicians) and Arabs were the same people.  To them Afghans and Pathans were also the same. ' I have mention Alahuddin Shah and his successors as good governors'.  Really?  In those days, Hindus were majority(~90%) and Muslims were the Sultans.  Bureaucratic participation of Hindus were unavoidable, most Jamindars were Hindus, and as R. C. Majumder wrote, the Sultans grabbed sixty percent of the tax collected(three times more than Sura Anfal permits).  An evidence of 'good governance' indeed!

On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:

 

That is interesting not surprising though. Last night I read the relevant pages of Romila Thapar. I see mention of Arabs, Turks, Mughals, Afghans, and even Abyssinians, but not Pathans. Let the historians do more research on it. Whatever resources I have mention Alahuddin Shah and his successors as good governors. (Bankim was not hostorian; Das for nothing attacking an imaginary enemy!) My point was to point to one great element in his character. He was a nationalist and loved his mother tongue. Ghulam Murshid has given more details about Alauddin and his successors. Kamal Das may want to read it. He will find mention of "sworn pugs" there. Historians can be biased to the group he belongs to. Our readership also has problems. We as readers are selective and take into cognizance those accounts which support my agenda or views. One bhokto of Vivekananda started hating him when he discovered that in one of his writings he praised Islam! Muslim rulers sponsored Bengali language! impossible. Many Muslim (educated) hate Bankim without properly studying him. Very unfortunate. One thing: Geetagovimdam was not written in Benhali.  It was not in pure Sandkrit either. Bankim treated this as a contribution to Bengali language. 
Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 20, 2012, at 10:07 AM, Mahbub Kamal <mahbubk2002@yahoo.com> wrote:

 

In case someone has some doubt I am mentioning the reference here:   Article: Bangalar Itihas. Pages 331-333 (translation of quotes for page 332) - Bangkim Rachanabali: Sahitya Samagra. New edition by 'Tuli-kolom', July 2001. Publisher: Kalyanbrata Datta, Tuli-kolom.   In 'Bangalar Itihas sommondhe koyekti Katha' Bngkim expressed his doubt on if Ever Pathans have conquered the whole of Bengal (page 339 - same volume).   I apologize for the phoenitic spellings   In my small personal collection  at my Toronto basement I do have complete works of Bangkim.   Thank you.--- On Sat, 2/18/12, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote: From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Why We Need Words Like 'Islamist' :: Islamism is a distinct phenomenon and different from historic Islam To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Received: Saturday, February 18, 2012, 12:48 PM   As I promised, here is some thing that I can present as an evidence that Bankim praised Pathan rulers. In his review of Rajkrishna Mukherjee's "First lesson: the history of Bengal", among other things, Bankim has said the following about Pathan rulers: 1. During Pathan rule, intellectually Bengalis became brighter. 2. This is the period when the greatest poets Vidyapati and Chandidas emerged. Moreover, unparallel Raghunath, Raghunandan, and Chaitanyadev appeared.  3. This period has witnessed the highly creative Vaishnab literature. 4. Bengal has never seen this level of intellectual development two hundred years before or after Pathan rule. 5. Architecturally also Bengal showed tremendous achievement during this period. 6. Local landlords enjoyed autonomy to a great extent. 7. Mughals did not do any thing for Bengali literature. In that sense Pathans were our friends and the Mughals were our enemies. No good book was written in Bengal during the Mughal rule. 8. During Mughal rule, wealth from Bengal used to be smuggled to Delhi, and even to Iran. 9. A major share of the expenses incurred for building Tajmahal went from Bengal. 6. Not only Nader Shah, the Marathas also looted wealth of Bengal.   Obviously Bankim is controversial. We do not have to agree with him on every thing; personally I do not. There are pieces that anger Muslims. But we must not forget that he was a great nationalist. Some of his main concerns were Bengal and Bengali and Bengal's peasants. You may remember what he said after "Christian" Madhusudan's death: Favorable wind is blowing. Hoist your national flag and write on it "ShreeMadhusudan".    From my personal memory: One of my teachers in Dhaka college was Nazibur Rahman Khan. Once he told the class (1968 or 1969 a period plagued by anti-Hindu and anti-Indian politics and when Monayem Khan requested Abdul Hye to write Rabindrasangeet) not to push aside Bankim but to read him with care.       From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Why We Need Words Like 'Islamist' :: Islamism is a distinct phenomenon and different from historic Islam A funny response indeed although it testifies to the fact that Mr. Kamal Das always takes out of his pocket some stunning information to prove wrong some thing that is more or less well founded! Rabindranath could not go beyoond primary education and Nazrul did not pass matriculation exam. They are lucky that they have not been attacked by Das! From the top of my head I cannot exactly say on which pages Bankim has praised Pathan rulers, but I can assure you he has done it. As far as I remember Bankim has praised the Pathan rulers for their contributions including sponsoring Bengali language and literature. (I will find more about it. I have complete works of Bankim.)   "Alahuddin Hussain Shah (1493-1519) ------ who gave pride of place to the fledgling Bengali language, ruled the land without showing any discrimination between his Hindu and Muslim subjects and gave his kingdom a peaceful and prosperous period ...." ---From History of the Bengali-speaking people.   From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] FW: Why We Need Words Like 'Islamist' :: Islamism is a distinct phenomenon and different from historic Islam   Both Bankim and Bhudev were made to pass the B. A. Exam on grace.There is no reason to take Bankim as a serious historian. Besides, inwhich novel did Bankim call the Pathan dominated Bengal a golden era? If Bengal had any golden period at all, it was under the rule of theBuddhists. "Since I have studied the Medieval period of both Europe,Islamic civilization, and Bengal's history I know how rich andbig-hearted that period was. Medieval Bengal under the Muslim rule (or the Pathan period, as Bankim calls the era), for instance, wasconsidered the Golden Age by Bankim." Had this lady really studied somuch, she could not find that period 'rich and big-hearted'. Which period does she define as medieval? Isn't Salafism another name ofWahabism? In my opinion, the Deobandis are closer to Salafism thanthe Jamatis. Whoever may outcast Moududi, Ali Shariati, the Guru ofthe Islamic revolution in Iran worked on the model put forward by him.The aim of Islam is global domination right from the beginning. Hadit not been eradicated from Spain in the fifteenth century, they wouldhave probably conquered the American continents, and be nearer to their goal.

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