Mr. Q. Rahman hasn't read Tabari, Waqidi, or even Karen Armstrong.
Almost every Islamic theologian has discussed 'Satanic Verses'. After
the Rushdie episode, late Rafiq Zakaria wrote a book named, 'Muhammad
and the Quran'. In it, he wrote pages on the subject. The verses
were abrogated six years after being revealed, and expunged after nine
years. If Mr. Rahman claims to know more than Tabari, for example, I
have nothing to say. Ignorance is bliss indeed.
On 2/23/12, MUSTAFIZUR RAHMAN <mustafiz84@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Time and again I find words like
> civilized version, civilized world, modern civilized human beings etc.
> being used emphatically to draw a line between, I would say, the Muslims and
> the non Muslims. Some Members use these words in a manner to demean the
> other opinion holders. Thus they want to show their superiority complex!
> Where does one draw the line on the global map to differentiate the
> 'civilized world' from the 'uncivilized'? People wearing bikinis are
> civilized and those adopting purda are not? Those eating with their hands
> and licking their fingers after eating are uncivilized and those eating with
> spoons and forks are civilized?
> To continue with the thread of discussion, Islam has strictly prohibited
> worshiping idols. The basis of Islam is faith in the unseen Allah. But in
> Bangladesh, very cunningly this basis of faith is being diluted. By erecting
> a Shaheed Minar and putting flowers at its base to show respect to an action
> of 1952, Muslims are been pulled away from this edict of Islam. Islam
> strictly prohibits such acts. Muslims are taught to seek blessings for such
> acts or sacrifices in mosques or at home in specific ways shown by the
> Prophet of Islam (PBUH). But in Bangladesh slowly but surely, the Muslims
> are being drawn away from this belief and the country is being flooded with
> statues and replicas where they are being enticed to bow down, show
> reverence etc. For example laying wreaths in front of flames, pictures,
> monuments, graves, sculptures etc. All these have been prohibited by Islam.
> If this continues, a time will when the younger generation of today will
> forget tomorrow the difference between idol worshiping and showing respect
> or reverence. In the schools of Bangladesh young children are shrewdly being
> brought to stone structures in barefoot with flowers in their hands to show
> respect. All in the name of culture or tradition!! It has been strictly
> prohibited by the Prophet of Islam FOR THE MUSLIMS.
> A Muslim should NOT break the idols which people of other beliefs worship.
> BUT if Muslims make such structures or statues and start worshiping them,
> then other Muslims SHOULD break them.
> Mustafizur Rahman
> To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
> From: subain1@yahoo.com
> Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 14:51:14 -0800
> Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
>
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> I also thank Mr. Rahman and many Muslims in Bangladesh who support ensuring
> safety and security for 'idol worshiping'. However, the idea of providing
> protection is not adequate, the proof of which we have seen numerous times
> in Bangladesh. Depending on which party is in power and on which individuals
> make up the protecting police team, the safety and security of 'idol
> worshiping' get breached.
>
> I think the real issue is the fact that the Islamic prohibition of 'idol
> worshiping' has caused too much criminality and enormous undue sufferings
> for too many innocent people in the world. Modern civilized human beings
> need to reject the criminal mindset itself.
>
> The way I see it, honorable societies and countries would not care why and
> in what context an act of hatred was endorsed by a religion, they would just
> reject the hatred, following the religion or not. Modern developed countries
> of the world have largely succeeded on this. For example, in the USA, Hindu
> temples do not need any special protection by the police; they can function
> as safely as Christian churches. Now, see how much protection the average
> Hindu temple needs in Bangladesh compared to the average Muslim mosque!
>
> For the specific issue of 'idol worshiping', I think the Muslims should have
> total freedom of not doing it. However, they do not have any right to force
> or intimidate a Hindu to stop doing it in his home or temple. For a more
> civilized version, they have no right to force even a person who was born in
> a Muslim family to not do it. If the Muslims of Bangladesh were as
> enlightened as that, there would be no need for any special protection of
> 'idol worshiping'.
>
> Well, that is all for now,
>
> Sukhamaya Bain
>
>
>
>
>
> From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
> To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 10:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
>
>
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>
> I have thanked Mr. Kamal Das also for enlighteneing us with Koranic
> knowledge.
> Not only Islam, other religions including "nirakarbadee" Hindus do not
> worship idols. I am not very sure what kind of comment you want. Asking for
> security at any place which is potentially in danger from any kind of
> lawlessness situation is a legitimate right. If Mr. Rahman is asking for it
> for the Hindus, I must thank him for good feelings for his fellow Hindu
> citizens.
> Have I answered your question? Please let me know.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
> To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 5:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
>
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> SC: "Meat eaters will slaughter animals. That should be O.K. Let us do it in
> a civilized manner."
>
> SB: Amen to what Mr. Chakrabarty wrote.
>
> Now, let me ask Mr. Chakrabarty to comment on the following comment by Q. A.
> Rahman, whom he has thanked on a different thread for 'enlightening us with
> the Koranic knowledge':
>
>
> "For example, Islam is totally against "Idol worshiping" but out of respect
> to many Hindus in Bangladesh, our government keep extra security to ensure a
> safe and joyous festivals for Hindus. I strongly support such steps to
> ensure safety and security."
>
> I wanted to provide some guidance, but let me refrain from that. I will
> comment, if necessary after comments from Mr. Chakrabarty, and from anyone
> else who may do it.
>
> Sukhamaya Bain
>
>
>
>
>
> From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
> To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 8:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Animals are killed. They are killed in the name of religion, nutrition, and
> vanity (omuk mia this time bought a cow at Tk. 5 lac, or omuk babu scrificed
> ten pathas.) They are mostly done publicly in our subcontinent. You are not
> allowed to do it publicly in an advanced country. If you do it, you will be
> accused of committing cruelty to animals. Even you cannot show
> slaughter/sacrifice in images. This is civilized behavior. I have heard
> complaints about the way cows are slaughtered in the public areas. The mess
> made is unhygeinic. Meat eaters will slaughter animals. That should be O.K.
> Let us do it in a civilized manner.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
> To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 5:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This probably would be my last comments on Q. A. Rahman's posts, at least
> for a while. Let me go point by point.
>
> QAR: "In theory everything is possible. BUT this also means you are
> "Proposing" to impose your values on others!!"
>
> SB: I was not proposing to impose anything on anyone. I was just trying to
> put some sense into the heads of people who are too brainwashed to find any
> imperfection, let alone faults, in the religion that they inherited from
> their parents. I probably should admit, how foolish of me to get into trying
> an unattainable goal! I am not sure what Mr. Rahman means by "your values."
> But I would certainly claim to have a superior value system than the average
> ignorant religious person of any kind.
>
> QAR: "There are places in India where Muslims are not "Allowed" to slaughter
> cow. Last time I checked Bangladesh is not part of India."
>
> SB: Good point! Some people in the world do sensible things voluntarily,
> some people are sensible because they are not allowed to act on their
> insensibility.
>
> QAR: "Still ALL religious sentiments have to be considered. NOT just for one
> community for long term peace here."
>
> SB: How is killing cow a religious sentiment for the Muslims? Their
> religious books certainly did not ask them to slaughter cow. So, is the
> sentiment like, "To prove that I am a Muslim, I have to show that I kill,
> with a lot of fanfare, the animal that the Hindus treat like a god?"
>
> QAR: "The fundamental DIFFERENCE in Muslim and Hindu narrative is unlike
> Hindu tradition God of Abraham (Allah-SWT) did NOT want human's to be
> sacrificed. While many Hindu gods (According to the tradition) do accept
> such "Sacrifices"."
>
> SB: I do not think a thoroughly brainwashed religious Muslim is in a
> position to judge the differences between Islam and any other religion.
> There are differences. Some differences would make Islam better; some
> differences would make Islam worse. Seriously religious people are too
> biased to see the faults in their own religion. Unfortunately, I do not have
> much time to talk about what I call "the primitive wisdoms" in the
> religions.
>
> Sukhamaya Bain
>
>
>
>
>
> From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
> To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 3:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
>
>
>
>
>
> I'll become crazy if I keep getting such big doses of 'knowledge'.
>
>
>
>>>>>
>
> < From member Bain>
>
> Muslims could certainly give up the extra 15% similarity> out of respect for
> their neighbors, and out of caring for a harmonious> coexistence with the
> neighbors, while following their own religious> tradition.
>
>>>>>>>>>>> In theory everything
> is possible. BUT this also means you are "Proposing" to impose your values
> on others!!
>
> I can understand if the request is to hide the animal from public eye as a
> good neighbor. But your are actually "Bold" enough the propose this on the
> whole country.
> During my university days, I had a Roommate (Still very good friends) who
> came from Hindu tradition. I never cooked beef in front of him albeit he
> gave me permission. That is courtesy and I understand that. But your
> proposal is only good for mindless debate in this forum but not a
> "Practical" solution for a whole country.
>
> There are places in India where Muslims are not "Allowed" to slaughter cow.
> Last time I checked Bangladesh is not part of India. So I think more
> "Practical" solution can be reached. Otherwise our people would think a
> minority values have been imposed on us. Also beef is cheaper in Bangladesh
> (Because Indian Hindus have no problem selling cows to Muslims who would
> make
> beef curry out of it!) and a good source of protein. It would deprive many
> poor people from getting their protein intake. Still ALL religious
> sentiments have to be considered. NOT just for one community for long term
> peace here.
>
>
> As far as I know, the pre-Islamic prophet Ibrahim> was ready to sacrifice
> his son Ishmail to express his true devotion to God.> The Hindus used to
> sacrifice little children to please their God by offering> the purest/most
> sinless thing. Of course, this kind of human sacrifices> would be seriously
> prosecuted in today's world, because we are civilized> enough to realize
> that the person that is to be offered/sacrificed has a> right to this world,
> which even his/her father can not take away; devotion> to God or not.
>
>
>>>>>>>>>> This is a good point. The fundamental DIFFERENCE in Muslim and
>>>>>>>>>> Hindu narrative is unlike Hindu tradition God of Abraham
>>>>>>>>>> (Allah-SWT) did NOT want human's to be sacrificed. While many
>>>>>>>>>> Hindu gods (According to the tradition) do accept such
>>>>>>>>>> "Sacrifices".
>
> The Muslim story shows us
> Allah (SWT) want our love and devotion towards Him but NOT our sons!!
>
>
>
> Again NOT here to criticize other views here BUT need to point out this
> FUNDAMENTAL difference in narratives.
>
> Hope this will be some help those who seek to understand different point of
> views.
>
> Shalom!
>
>
>
> Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use
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