Now a days, it is believed that Abraham changed his name at ninety
nine years of age from Ab-hamra, hamra being the altar where the
children were sacrificed, and he was a professional slaughterer. As
he was not certain of his parenthood of either of the children, he
banished the first one with his mother to the desert of Mecca, and
took the second one to the mount of Moriah. In the last moment he
changed mind, and slaughtered a sheep, came back to where he lived and
told his Phoenician friends that sacrificing one's own child.
However, the practice did not wither away soon. It lasted till the
time advent of Christianity.
Why were the first born children sacrificed, one may ask? It was
widely believed that children were born due to the cardinal sin of
making love. So the God had to be appeased by sacrificing the first
born child as burnt offering. The real reason might have been much
more heinous. The priests loved the roasted meat of newly born
children. In those days, animal farming was not done on a commercial
scale. Child sacrifice was common across the known world. Even
Agamemnon had to sacrifice his eldest daughter Iphigenia before he
could sail his armada towards Troy.
On 2/13/12, Sukhamaya Bain <
subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
> With a lot of reluctance, I am commenting on the illogical and
> less-than-honest verbiage in Mr. Rahman's post below. He highlights only a
> part of a sentence and 'wants to 'correct' some wrong assumption'! Anyone
> who can comprehend English would see that I did not criticize the Muslim
> practice of sacrificing animals in general; I criticized the practice of
> killing/sacrificing one particular animal which the Hindus consider like a
> god. The essence/implication of my point was, why cow, why be hurtful to
> your neighbor, why not find a different animal? Let me preempt people like
> Mr. Rahman by advising them not to bother finding a cow to be 75% similar to
> the animal that was sacrificed as per the holy story, as opposed to a goat
> being 60% similar. Muslims could certainly give up the extra 15% similarity
> out of respect for their neighbors, and out of caring for a harmonious
> coexistence with the neighbors, while following their own religious
> tradition.
>
> Now let me bring up a point that I did not do in my last post or in the
> above paragraph. It is regarding this tradition of sacrificing
> animals/humans for God. As far as I know, the pre-Islamic prophet Ibrahim
> was ready to sacrifice his son Ishmail to express his true devotion to God.
> The Hindus used to sacrifice little children to please their God by offering
> the purest/most sinless thing. Of course, this kind of human sacrifices
> would be seriously prosecuted in today's world, because we are civilized
> enough to realize that the person that is to be offered/sacrificed has a
> right to this world, which even his/her father can not take away; devotion
> to God or not.
>
> Sukhamaya Bain
>
> From: qar <
qrahman@netscape.net>
> To:
mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 12:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
>
>
> Here is an example of hatred that is based upon religious identity, as
> opposed to religious belief. The Muslims of Bangladesh kill cows with a lot
> of fanfare at one of their holy days. So far I know, Islam does not tell
> Muslims to kill or sacrifice cow. The way I see it, they could follow their
> religion fully without killing an animal that their Hindu neighbors consider
> like a god.>>>>>>>>>> As I stated many times in this forum that, ignorance
> leads to misunderstanding between people and communities. I have no issues
> with the points made and opinions shared. Just wanted to 'Correct" some
> wrong assumptions. Actually for our Eid-ul-adha (AKA Korbanir eid) is to
> honor sacrifices made any prophet Abraham (PBUH). Since Biblical time people
> have been sacrificing animals in various religions. Hindus of this
> sub-continent are also known for "Boli dan" with animals as well. I do
> understand that, cow is respected by practicing Hindus. Albeit scholars of
> Hinduism
> at times say beef is not mentioned in the Gita and ancient Hindus actually
> consumed beef but stop taking it after Jainism became popular in India.
> Either this was adopted for religion or culture is not very important but it
> is essential for Muslims to sacrifice animal during this Eid.
>
>
> My feeling is if conversions to Islam in the subcontinent had more love for
> Islam, as opposed to hatred for the Hindus, cow killing and beef eating
> would not have been like a religious ritual for the Muslims>>>>>>>>>> Again
> this goes back thousands of years and Muslims all over the world sacrifice
> animals (Camel, cows, goat etc) during this Eid-al-Adha. I think we could
> get away with lot less "Sacrifices" during this festival. Wealthy people
> sometime sacrifice too many animals to show off. Only God knows true
> intentions and I speak based on my "Personal" observation only. I also
> realize it is a difficult time for many of our Hindu citizens of Bangladesh.
> Overall I think Bangladeshis managed to have a balanced approach with our
> festivals. I think last year or year before Durga puja happened during holy
> month of Ramadan (AKA ramjan) and it went pretty smoothly. Lastly there is
> no doubt that there are many opportunities to improve understanding from
> both
> communities. Just wanted to replace some wrong information with Islamic
> info (Since you were commenting on Islamic rituals here!). Shalom!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----From: Sukhamaya Bain <
subain1@yahoo.com>To:
> mukto-mona <
mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>Sent: Sun, Feb 12, 2012 10:20
> amSubject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
>
> I agree with Dr. Das's sarcasm, "The Indian subcontinent offers a glaring
> example of 'religious tolerance'." I also agree to a large extent with his
> point on the killing, forcible conversion, and displacement of millions of
> people in our subcontinent.
>
> However, I would point to two hate factors, religious belief and religious
> identity, the latter was probably more responsible for the devastation that
> Dr. Das mentioned.
>
> Here is an example of hatred that is based upon religious identity, as
> opposed to religious belief. The Muslims of Bangladesh kill cows with a lot
> of fanfare at one of their holy days. So far I know, Islam does not tell
> Muslims to kill or sacrifice cow. The way I see it, they could follow their
> religion fully without killing an animal that their Hindu neighbors consider
> like a god.
>
> My feeling is if conversions to Islam in the subcontinent had more love for
> Islam, as opposed to hatred for the Hindus, cow killing and beef eating
> would not have been like a religious ritual for the Muslims. I would welcome
> any historical knowledge and correction/clarification from Dr. Das and
> others on this.
>
> Talking about eating beef, personally I do eat beef; we even cook beef at
> our home. But I would not kill a cow in front of anyone who considers the
> animal like a god, nor would I entice anyone to eat pork if I know that he
> considers eating that meat as a sin.
>
> Well, that's all for now,
>
> Sukhamaya Bain
>
> From: Kamal Das <
kamalctgu@gmail.com>
> To:
mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 11:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
>
>
> The Indian subcontinent offers a glaring example of 'religious tolerance'.
> In the last century, over a million killed and tens of millions displaced
> due to religious belief. The number of forcible conversions are beyond
> count. Mr. Chakravarty is not only an appeaser and an optimist who would
> see no evil, hear no evil, though speak evil sometimes.
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <
subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Well, when I talk about "How to follow religions correctly", I certainly
>> mean what should be the "practiced versions of religions." To practice
>> religions like civilized human beings who care about harmonious
>> coexistence of all innocent people, followers of most religions have to
>> edit their religions and/or ignore some aspects of their religions to fit
>> their common sense and what Dr. Roy called "human compassion."
>>
>>I am sure Mr. Chakrabarty and I have seen innocent people who actually have
>> very little knowledge of their religions. They realize that their God has
>> also created people who do not have the same thoughts about God. They
>> could see that it would be wrong for them to hate, discriminate against,
>> or commit atrocities against other kinds of people. These people are good
>> primarily because of their good common sense, not because of their
>> religions.
>>
>>I have no argument with Mr. Chakrabarty about good practiced versions of
>> religions. However, "Every religion teaches tolerance about other
>> religions"is a wrong statement if we go by what quite a few of the
>> religions are by their books.
>>
>>Sukhamaya Bain
>>
>>
>>From: subimal chakrabarty <
subimal@yahoo.com>
>>To: "
mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <
mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 11:36 PM
>>Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
>>
>> * Both Jiten Roy and Sukhamaya Bain need to read my message on the
>> "practiced" version of a religion. Peaceful coexistence is not a myth
>> (exampe, Hindus vs Muslims in Bengal). Peace has sometimes been broken by
>> nasty politics. During communal riots the members of the two different
>> religious communities give shelter to one another. We just need to reflect
>> on the past and the present as well.
>> * Religion is not a unique thing. It has infinite versions. There are
>> infinite levels of religious belief. If you want to program your GPS, make
>> sure where you want to go, in other words, which version of religion is
>> your destination.
>>
>> * Here you go Mr. Roy: "Whatever tolerance we see is due to societal laws,
>> and out of human compassion." That is what I am talking about: this is the
>> practiced religion. You have mentioned only two determinants. There are
>> many more forces that tend to keep religions universally appealing. That
>> helps build communal harmony. But there is always a risk.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>From: Jiten Roy <
jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
>>To:
mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>>Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 8:11 PM
>>Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
>>
>>
>>Religion is like a GPS device, if you follow the turn-by-turn direction of
>> it, you will end up in a predefined culture. This part is well tested and
>> verified. Anything else is just guesswork or pipedream.
>>
>>Religion, being a GPS system that can only take you to a predefined
>> culture, cannot be used as a political system for a multicultural society.
>> If you do, you will enforce a particular culture onto a multicultural
>> society, and the outcome will be chaos and calamity in an otherwise
>> peaceful society.
>>
>>When we talk about religious tolerance, we should also remember that
>> religion is a business also. Do you think any business like competitors?
>> Whatever tolerance we see is due to societal laws, and out of human
>> compassion. In my view, religion is a cultural hegemony, nothing more. As
>> a result, the history of religious coexistence is written in blood.
>>
>>Jiten Roy--- On Wed, 2/8/12, Sukhamaya Bain <
subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>From: Sukhamaya Bain <
subain1@yahoo.com>
>>>Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
>>>To: "
mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <
mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
>>>Date: Wednesday, February 8, 2012, 8:26 PM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I would like to comment on the following two comments:
>>>
>>>S. Chakrabarty: "Every religion teaches tolerance about other religions."
>>>
>>>J. Roy: "Most people believe in Allah in their own way."
>>>
>>>S. Bain: Mr. Chakrabarty is very wrong here. I like Dr. Roy's statement.
>>> Please see below for some elaborations of these two comments.
>>>
>>>None of the Abrahamic religions tolerate idolatry, which is a Hindu
>>> religious practice. People who identify themselves in terms of an
>>> Abrahamic religion, yet tolerate idolatry, do it in spite of their
>>> religion, not because of it. For example, many Christian communities in
>>> the USA allow Durga Puja in the churches because they have advanced
>>> enough to ignore some of the aspects of their religion, not because
>>> Christianity is not against idolatry. Enough reading and honest
>>> interpretations of the fundamentals of religions would show that many
>>> religions consider the following of other religions to be inappropriate,
>>> wrong, sinful and even punishable. I am personally reluctant to dig
>>> deeper into that. But I am sure Mr. Chakrabarty would find the example of
>>> idolatry that I noted here to be a valid one.
>>>
>>>While almost all Muslims use the Arabic word Allah for the English word
>>> God, the word Allah was in use long before Islam came into being. Thus,
>>> Muslims really do not have a proprietary right on the word Allah. When a
>>> Christian or a Hindu prays to God, he is praying to Allah. In fact the
>>> Arab Christians do call God Allah. A Hindu should be able to use the
>>> Arabic word Allah as much as he uses the English word God to do his way
>>> of praying, including what would be clearly un-Islamic. A Bangalee Muslim
>>> should have no problem using the word "Ishwar" instead of the word
>>> "Allah." That should not cause anyone to lose his Islam.
>>>
>>>Well, that's all for now.
>>>
>>>Sukhamaya Bain
>>>**************************************************
>>>
>>>"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right
>>> to say it". -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre],
>>> 190
>>>
>>>Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use
>>>.
>
>
