I think a little clarification is needed.
I used China as an example to show that, despite "Chinese claim to have freedom of religion" there are Muslims, Christians and others who are persecuted for having faith. You can blame the Chinese authority for it but it would be wrong to blame "Communists" for torturing those "People of faith".
There are clear violations against Muslims in India (Yes Gujrat incident was NOT a result of Muslim criminals but Hindu politicians).
My point was despite "Secular" ideals India failed to offer "Level playing field" for many Muslims. Chinese and Indians did not codify such religious persecutions but their systems FAILED to protect SOME minorities. Similarly Iran claimed to be an "Islamic" country but Bahais were persecuted ( I did not deny it, please re-read it). HOWEVER since re-creation of Israel, Bahais were seen working with Israel more. Just look at their shrine and compare with the state of masques in Israel, you will get "The point" I was making.
Recently I discussed about a report about position of Muslims in west Bengal. Despite being a liberal secular leaning state, only 2% of government jobs went to Muslims despite having over 26% of population. If you analyze how Bangladeshis are treated by BSF, you will see traces of discrimination (Because they are Muslims) there. Even Nepalese or people from Bhutan are not treated this bad.
While I do not wish to deny many good parts of India but "Secularism" did not deliver the promises made. That is the bottom line.
The point to underline here both secularism and communism are good but because of flawed people it fails at places. Similarly Islam worked well for Iran in most areas but clearly there are areas where Iran is behind Islamic standards. This is a complex issue to say the least. Because there are MANY Iranian Jews who still live there!!
Since Bahais are seen as some kind of 'Rajakars" to most Iranians, they had troubles. Islam is NOT the only reason behind their persecution in Iran.
unlike, for example Bangladesh, where Islam is the state religion, where the constitution begins with 'bismillah'.
Just wanted to clarify my statements. Thanks.
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Mar 10, 2012 11:28 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
Sent from my iPhone
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2012 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Nuclear de-proliferation and non-proliferation must be done
Right now the rhetoric against Iran is loud but often less than accurate.
Now that I accept that, Iran has genuine problem with Bahai community (Seen as agents of Israel), you suggested that, it has been done " under the guidance of the 'ayatollahs'" as well.
I think the problem with Bahai community has been going on for a while. Just like problem with Kurdish Muslims and Arab Muslims is also based on regional problem. Even today Kurdish people have some very valid complaints against majority community of Arabs.
Both communities have been alleged to have spied for Israel and worked against their country. I am not an expert on this but do note that, Bahai world headquarter is in Haifa, Israel.
From what I found out, it is a complex issue and religion is NOT the main reason for this situation.
Shalom!
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Mar 7, 2012 6:33 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Nuclear de-proliferation and non-proliferation must be done
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Saturday, March 10, 2012
Re: [mukto-mona] How to follow religions correctly
>>>>>>> For your information, Bangladesh has NEVER been an "Islamic republic". Rather people's republic. Ershad wanted to use sentiment of people by use the "Symbolic" Bismillah in front of constitution and left it alone. Our laws are based on British common laws NOT Islamic laws.
-----Original Message-----
I have my two cents to add. Like literary criticism, feminist criticism, etc. religious criticism should be offered as a course at post secondary levels.
I think the following discussion fits the "how to do religion" category better. It involves two questions from Mr. Q. A. Rahman. Here are my thoughts on them.
QAR: Are we going to say Chinese communist party is guiding violence against Muslims over at Xinxiang?
SB: My short answer would be, yes.
However, while Muslims in Xinxiang and Buddhists in Tibet seem to be most persecuted, the other religious groups in other parts of China seem to be doing all right. China does have a freedom of religion policy. I wonder if the excessive religiosity in these two places has some contribution to the problem. I do like one policy of China: Religious education could not begin until a minor had completed nine years of compulsory schooling. My thoughts are similar; a baby should not be brainwashed to follow any religion. He/she should be allowed to grow up to be at a certain level of maturity and then exposed to a number of religions, so that he/she can decide with a reasonable amount of judgment as to what religion to believe in, or if any religion is worth following as such. A child should not be allowed to grow up to be a cult member and hate other people for their belief or non-belief in religions.
QAR: How about rights of minorities in "Secular" India (Under congress!)?
SB: My not so short answer would be that India does not treat its minorities like inferior classes of citizens. Even under BJP, the country did not treat the minority communities differently than the majority Hindu community. Even BJP made a Muslim the President of India.
Isolated incidents of criminality should not be equated with the overall picture of the nation. India never claimed itself to be a Hindu nation, unlike, for example Bangladesh, where Islam is the state religion, where the constitution begins with 'bismillah'.
Even the infamous Gujarat communal riots in India were started by some Muslim criminals, and claimed a significant number of Hindu lives, along with about four times as many Muslim lives. Compare that with Bangladesh, where Muslim criminals do their crimes on the non-Muslims with almost total impunity, where minorities run and hide instead of fighting back, let alone starting a fight.
Note also that the Sikhs are more powerful in India compared to their percentage in the overall population. The Buddhists, the Jains and the Zoroastrians are as happy as the Hindus in India. The Christians have some problems due to their religion propagation activities, which come under occasional attacks by Hindu criminals. What is the real problem with the Muslims; too much religion and religious brotherhood, as opposed to education on science and humanities?
QAR: Bahai world headquarter is in Haifa, Israel.
SB: There is a clear historic reason for this. Bahá'u'lláh spent his last years there, passed away there, and was buried there in 1892. If he and his religious group were not persecuted in his birthplace, Tehran, Persia (Iran), his principal shrine most likely would have been in Iran today.
So long,
Sukhamaya Bain
==================================================
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
You can include, Israel, USA, India, China, Russia and many other nations to that list. There is NOTHING unique about Iran. It has it's share of problem not only with minorities but also with Muslims. There are some structural flaws in that country (Like most other nations). At the same time Iran has more women with higher university degree than men (Going against the stereotypical image of Islam!). It has female participation in many sporting events (Being a secular country Bangladesh failed to provide space for female in sports in most cases) and in army as well. Heck we don't even have room for women in most of our mosque.
So will you say the same about China or India? Are we going to say Chinese communist party is guiding violence against Muslims over at Xinxiang? How about rights of minorities in "Secular" India (Under congress!)?
-----Original Message-----
Calling the country an Islamic Republic and running it according to Islamic laws already make the non-Muslims of that country less than regular citizens. The reality on the ground is also that Iran does indeed persecute religious minorities. See, for example:
The persecution and injustice against the religious minorities in Iran are being done under the guidance of the 'ayatollahs'. A truly reli
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