Re: [mukto-mona] Nuclear de-proliferation and non-proliferation must be done

What you are saying does not disprove the shortsightedness of American foreign policy. Now America is trapped in Pakistan and Afghanistan. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 5, 2012, at 7:05 PM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:

 

It is hard to paint a beautiful picture with just one brush. Similar is the condition in politics also, especially for a superpower. Running a country is like playing the game of Chase, where one has to shift strategy based on the moves of the opponent. You talked about USA supporting military dictatorship in Pakistan in 1971, over the democratic system in India.  You know why they did so, and that was to block Soviet influence over the subcontinent. USA was engaged in an ideological cold war with Soviet Union. The fight was to block the spread of communism throughout the world. That was the major game at the time; everything else (like spreading democracy and freedom, etc.) were secondary. Pakistan took advantage of that opportunity to become a nuclear power.   We are all watching the recent people's movements in the Middle East, and the results are slowly coming in. The early results indicate that it's not good. Egyptians want Sharia-based constitution, Libyans wants the same also, and you have already mentioned about the rise of fanaticism in Iraq. Picture is very clear, and that is – there is a clear danger with the people's power in the Middle East.   What do you do in this case? You chose the bad from the worst option. That's politics. For this reason, USA will support autocratic dictatorship in the Saudi Arabia as long as there is no better option available. If you judge the situation any other way, it will be an academic exercise of an ideologue only, not a good political move. Politics is based on the reality on the ground, which may not always follow ideological path.  This is why academicians rarely make good politicians.   Jiten Roy   --- On Sun, 3/4/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Nuclear de-proliferation and non-proliferation must be done To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 8:55 PM   Even as I accept some of Dr. Roy's arguments, I would say that the possessors of nuclear weapons have to accept at least some of the four points that I made, in order to sell their demands for non-proliferation in terms of principles. As we know, India has been making some similar points to justify not signing the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, even though the world recognizes that India is not a rogue state.   Pakistan's possession of nuclear weapons is, of course, too close to our home. I have no doubt that if they had those weapons to threaten India in 1971, there would be no Bangladesh at that time, and possibly not even today.   As for religious fanatics running some countries, I think the short-sightedness of the Western powers has nurtured the fanaticism for too long. For example, countries like the United States and Britain supported the military dictatorial Pakistan in 1971 over the brutalized people of East Bengal and over the democratic India, because the Hindu-Muslim divide in the subcontinent was advantageous for them. I think if the big powers of the world cared more about principles than selfishness, they could find smart ways to discourage religious fanaticism. For another example, the way the Western powers have operated in Iraq to remove Saddam Hussein has made that country more Islamic fanatic.   I do not think the communists are as bad as the religious fanatics. I know many well-established Chinese professionals in the USA who would not have a chance to be where they are had there not been the support that the communist China had provided for their poor families.   Sukhamaya Bain   =================================== From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 3:21 PM Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Nuclear de-proliferation and non-proliferation must be done   The world will never be free of nuclear arsenals. Therefore, wishing for that is like wishing to meet God in person. We have to be realistic in what we wish for. If we accept that fact then we can discuss this issue wisely. There are countries in the world, which should not be allowed to have nuclear weapons, and religious/ideological fanatics run these countries. These fanatics are mostly erratic and unpredictable, because they are guided by the divine/heavenly instructions from God or ideological authoritarian doctrines. I know some of them, North Korea, Pakistan, etc., have nuclear weapons, and the world is dealing with the consequences. We don not have the luxury to increase the list. These are not toys.   This is the way I see this issue - we give guns to the cop and to the soldier, but not the thugs and drug dealers. You won't give a diamond necklace to a monkey. Will you? Some may argue that since thugs and drug dealers got guns illegally anyway, lets give guns to everybody. That is not an acceptable proposition yet.   The bottom line is - people who do not value their own lives cannot value the lives of others.   Jiten Roy --- On Sun, 3/4/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> Subject: [mukto-mona] Nuclear de-proliferation and non-proliferation must be done To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 9:44 AM   Since I do not want to talk under the banner of a religious fanatic (Khameini), I have changed the heading. Looking at the new heading, it should be obvious what I think; de-proliferation should be talked about before non-proliferation.   The way the possessors of nuclear weapons are demanding non-proliferation by others is indeed hypocritical. There is no morality here, it is all about who has the power. I think they could ask for non-proliferation with a degree of morality only if they did the following:   1)      Acknowledged that it was a mistake for them to possess those weapons of mass destruction. 2)      Stopped testing for new weapons and for ensuring the effectiveness of the old weapons. 3)      Submitted a clear cut plan as to how and within how long they would bring the level of their arsenal of nuclear weapons to zero. 4)      Execute at least a part of the plan proposed in point 3 above.   Having said the above, I think the non-possessors of nuclear weapons should not aspire for nuclear weapons; rather they should make the above four point demands to the possessors of nuclear weapons. This, however, can be very hard; because the possessors of nuclear weapons have been ignoring such demands for the last more than half a century. Thus, the world is in a serious predicament on this. I am worried about a war of mass destruction originating in the Middle East .   BTW: Khameini's wise words could be just a deception. If these fanatics had any morality, they would not have made the non-Muslims of their land an inferior class of citizens. Sukhamaya Bain   =================================== From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> To: naz chow <nazrulic@gmail.com> Cc: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Nuclear Weapons Are Sinful: Ayatollah Ali Khameini   I do not want proliferation of nuclear weapons to cause premature death of the civilization.  Sent from my iPhone On Mar 3, 2012, at 3:29 PM, naz chow <nazrulic@gmail.com> wrote: Thank you for your opinion. But, reality is power is all controlling/ enjoying everything in the world, if you see the history. So, to counter against those co