Thank you member Roy.
Shalom!
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Sep 12, 2012 5:37 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: November Election: Disappointing News for Rush Limbaugh Fans
_______________________________
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: November Election: Disappointing News for Rush Limbaugh Fans
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, September 10, 2012, 11:56 PM
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: November Election: Disappointing News for Rush Limbaugh Fans
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, September 10, 2012, 9:23 PM
--Abraham Lincoln
From: Jaffor <jaffor@gmail.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] Re: November Election: Disappointing News for Rush Limbaugh Fans
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 10:32 PM
I fully agree with Farida Majid on Ronald Reagan. Reagan maybe a hero to millions of illiterate Americans but beneath his Hollywood demeanor he was a dimwitted politician. He made deals with Iran's Khomeini begging them not to release the American Embassy hostages before Nov 1980 election. He intentionally jacked up the interest to 12-14% so that his rich Southern California friends can loan the U.S. Federal government the money to cover the deficit. He blamed the Democrats for expanding the government and he promised to American voters that if he is elected, he will shrink the government but look what he did. He made the government big, infused money into Pentagon, and consequently ballooning the Federal budget. Of course, Reagan's rich friends were there to loan the money to the government because they purchased those bonds getting 12-14% return annually. How clever of Reagan to help out his rich friends!!!
Republican Party is for the upper income people. I hope this Rush Limbaughite in this forum is a rich guy rubbing shoulder with Bush, Romney, etc. He is more Royal than the King and more Pious than the Pope.
Is he not the same person who predicted the demise of Obama candidacy in 2008 in this forum? Talk about the shame? This headless Republican lover has none.
--- In mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...> wrote:
>
> You are entitled to have your views, Dr. Das.
> Â
> I think greed is the mother's milk of success. But, you cannot have success all the time; some greed can bring failure. That's normal.  No risk - no gain.
>
> Â
> Jiten Roy
> Â
> --- On Sun, 9/9/12, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@...> wrote:
>
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> From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@...>
> Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] November Election: Disappointing News for Rush Limbaugh Fans
> To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, September 9, 2012, 8:30 PM
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> Â
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> Duty of the state is to control the greed of the rich, not to encourage it. Their is no point in quoting Lincoln. He might have been a civil war hero. He was not much of anything else.
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> On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 11:23 PM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@...> wrote:
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> Â
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>  “Sometimes ignorant people can make a change also, and when they do, it isn’t goodâ€� â€" Rush Limbaugh
> "You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people’s initiative and independence. You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves."
> --Abraham Lincoln
>
> --- On Sat, 9/8/12, Jaffor <jaffor@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Jaffor <jaffor@...>
> Subject: [mukto-mona] November Election: Disappointing News for Rush Limbaugh Fans
> To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, September 8, 2012, 11:19 PM
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> The U.S. presidential election is less than 60 days from now. Both the Tampa and Charlotte conventions are history now. In a new Reuters/Ipsos poll released today (September 8, 2012) Obama-Biden ticket is gaining popularity among American voters despite a disappointing job growth stat published a day ago. A majority of American voters now agree that the job growth will be anemic going forward notwithstanding an economic meltdown brought on by George W. Bush's presidency in 2008. The tax code favored by Republicans since 2000 has helped the greedy rich at the expense of the middle class and poor folks. Americans are now cognizance of this truth and they don't want to put a Wall Street vulture by the name Mitt Romney to the White House. This is the same guy who does not want to pay a fair tax. Some even say he is a tax dodger.
> In my view, as election time nears, more and more American voters of independent streak would side with the Democrats and will defeat the God-fearing Republicans. In this day and age of fast Internet, it is becoming very difficult to engage in disinformation and misinformation campaign. The fact-Check folks are ever alert now telling the media who is spreading lies and dirt.
> In 2008, a small but vocal minority of Mukto-Mona forum opposed the candidacy of Obama by falsely thinking that Obama was a closet Muslim. Â Obama's middle name gave them a jolt. One of the M-M forum-goers even made some boastful comment to the effect that his American friends in New York City have told him that a black man is unelectable for the highest political position. How wrong was he?
> I am very surprised that these folks are very quiet these days. One of them is however very critical of Michelle Obama.
> Incidentally, Mrs. Obama is the most radical First Lady this nation had ever witnessed. She took a shovel and helped dig the dirt in the backyard of White House with the help of kids and turned a small plot into a beautiful community garden.
> All the other first ladies of last thirty years such as Nancy Reagan, Barbara Bush, Hillary Clinton, Laura Bush, etc. were all dolled up never venturing out in the backyard of White House. But Michelle Obama is a different breed who dance to hear own tune. She is pushing for changing the food habits of grade school students. Her initiatives to feed the students more vegetables and fruits have been hailed by many nutritionists. Thus, she has a vision for America. Contrast this, if you will, with the demeanor of Anne Romney whose hobby is dressage (an equestrian sport of yesteryears). There is no comparison between Michelle Obama and Anne Romney, really. They exist in different realm! Â One is a working mother and the other is a sheltered rich housewife. One is a visionary like her husband and the other is a dull housewife.
> I think since it is the season of presidential politics in America, Mukto-Mona forum-goers should discuss endlessly who they support and why they support one candidate over the other.
> All the poll results thus far indicate that Obama may beat Romney but there is no guarantee. Â Political wind may change very fast. Â Debate performance, economic data, etc. may have a profound impact on election results. Â Therefore, do not pay much attention to what I write here. Â Give your opinion and make this forum rich with your erudite remarks.
>
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Wednesday, September 12, 2012
Re: [mukto-mona] Re: November Election: Disappointing News for Rush Limbaugh Fans
I did not agree with everything member Roy said in the response below. But I enjoyed reading it and a thoughtful post without personal attacks.
-----Original Message-----
K. Das said : "Besides, Dr. Roy, your pro-republican bias does not mix with anti-religious stance. I hope you have noticed it. Unregulated capitalism has made the bankers rich and bankrupted the institutions which created wealth. Should you defend the people who earn five times more bonus than salary (which might be as much as fifteen times as yours). If you should, that would be a manifestation of an identity crisis."
Dr. Das, you are assuming I support everything in the Republican Party platform. I am not a partisan political animal, as many in this forum. Yes, many of my economic ideology match with republicans; that's all. You cannot match everything, can you? You cannot split presidential vote either. If I could, maybe I could give a part of it to democrats. I have to see what's at stake at the moment. Religion is not that important issue to me; so it will be the last thing I will worry about.
Yes, banks failed, Wall Street failed, many corporations failed, and everybody got affected more or less from those failures. Many of the lost houses were bought by unqualified buyers. Government is responsible for relaxing the requirements for qualifying for the loan to increase the number of home-ownerships. Banks are intermediary vendors between government funds and buyers. Bank does not make rules. However, banks are responsible for derivative market. Security and exchange commission screwed up there. That's another story. But, people who got affected the most were the rich. Rich also got affected the most in the Madoff scandal.
I had a very small investment account, which I manage myself as a hobby. I lost 80% money in that account during the internet bubble-burst. Many people lost their houses and life-savings during that time. Many got out of the market, and accepted the loss. I didn't. I was putting more and more money in the market when it tanked. Today, I am happy to say that - I made much more than I lost during that bubble burst. What I am trying to say is - where there is risk there is gain also. Also, as a small invester, I know greed is the only thing that drives me in the stock market. When I gain, I want more gain. Don't you call that my greed? Don't be possessed by negative feelings all the times. Behind every cloud cover there is sunshine.
You mention salary discrepancy between me and the Wall Street executive? This is a political talk. But, let me explain this which politicians forget to tell.
The salary of a Wall Street executive is 1000 times more than me. That's true, and I know why. Those guys take 1000 times more risk than me every day. They handle our retirement accounts; they handle thousands of corporate accounts. How many people are smart enough to do that? President's view about CEOs is - "There are many smart people, like you....." The fact is - there are not too many people who can be CEOs. There is no school or training center for graduating CEOs to saturate the market to lower their pay. Their pay is determined by the market price. I am not smart enough to do that job either; otherwise, I would not have given my own retirement accounts to them, knowing full well they might fail sometime. I get my quarterly statements, and I see sometimes - my account is losing money. What should I do - pull my money out and put it under the mattress? Politicians, who like to incite class-warfare, compare CEO pay with ordinary workers to mislead people. It's disturbing to see that many people in this forum also are buying into that class-envy rhetoric. I wish to get CEO salary. That should be my dream, not my envy. Obviously, nobody can be 100% successful in a risky game. Yes, they will fail sometimes. You can't drive a CEO out of the company for each failure. If you do that – either you will end up paying much more to hire someone else or you will not find any. Even if you find someone for more money - there is no guarantee that he will not fail in the future. Every time CEOs fail, you cannot rewrite their contracts either. The game is risky. That's all. When a politician does this math, verify the math yourself. I don't trust politicians.
This president once said the following about the rich people - "How much money do you need? You don't need that much money...."
These statements reveal his desire, which is to set upper limit on earning potential. This is the distribution of wealth in disguise, a centerpiece of the socialism. I am not sure he can do it in this country, but that would be his desire in the second term, when he will get much more flexibility to use his executive privileges. If he can do it, he will make it very difficult to become millionaire/billionaire in this country. You may ask - if all that is true, why billionaires are supporting him? The answer is - do you think those who are already billionaires want many more billionaires around them? The answer is "NO." Who wants more competition? Nobody! If you still like this president, you can vote for him.
Poverty is a curse. True. No one caused it, is not. No one will lift it, is not either. In the past, geopolitical situation has raised millions out of poverty. Besides, Dr. Roy, your pro-republican bias does not mix with anti-religious stance. I hope you have noticed it. Unregulated capitalism has made the bankers rich and bankrupted the institutions which created wealth. Should you defend the people who earn five times more bonus than salary (which might be as much as fifteen times as yours). If you should, that would be a manifestation of an identity crisis.
On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 8:20 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Poverty is a curse, and it is individual's responsibility to lift it. No one caused it or no one will lift it for anybody."
K. Das Said: "This is half truth at best. Not even the leading Capitalists with a bit of common sense would subscribe to such ideas."
This is my idea, be that right or wrong. Dr. Das, what is the right idea in your view? Would you care to teach me? I am ready to learn.
Jiten
"Are you better off now than 4 years ago?" This is a question raised by that old demented presidential candidate named Ronald Regan against the peanut vendor one term President Carter. Regan's lack of comprehension was legendary. He, during one of his campaign speech, blamed China for having bombed Pearl Harbor. Republicans ask for less Government and ask for bail out when in trouble. The economic mess that the republicans have created would need a Stalin to cure. "Poverty is a curse, and it is individual's responsibility to lift it. No one caused it or no one will lift it for anybody." This is half truth at best. Not even the leading Capitalists with a bit of common sense would subscribe to such ideas.
On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 6:00 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hello Dr. Jafforullah,
How have you been? Long time no talk. Boy, you are a seasonal bird; you only sing in the election season. Yes, I remember our exchanges before the last election cycle 4 years back. Time flies fast. Let me ask you, my friend - "Are you better off now than 4 years ago?"
Sorry, I know, we are not friend, not enemy either; just happen to belong to two different camps. I am for a smaller government; you are for a bigger one. I am for capitalism, you are for socialism. But, we are not a rival – are we? If not, why do you need derogatory terms to make your point?
The fact is - I am not as partisan as you are. So, I won't compete with you for political nonsense. You can go ahead and elect your president. I did not support him last time, and it will not be any different this time. I knew then – he was not the right doctor for the kind of disease the country was suffering from. And I was right.
He did not cure the disease. How could he? His expertise is in a totally different field, so he has prescribed a wrong medicine. Can dentist fix your heart problem? Definitely not, but – politically ignorant mass were impressed by his sweet-talks and promises for the cure.
Here we are 4 years later; problem is still here, and our sweet-talking leader is back with a different rhetoric. First time he was for uniting everybody, now he wants to divide - rich vs. middle-class and the poor. It seems like – politically ignorant people will again go for the promises, instead of seeking alternate therapy. I knew it 4 years back, when I called him – the pied piper of USA.
The fact is - I do not like sweet-talking politicians, who come right before elections and stand before the cheering naive crowd and through some political rhetoric, such as - I am for the poor, and feel your pain, etc., etc., and the crowd is moved with tears. After that - their condition becomes worse year after year.
I am not indebted to anybody. I want to change the doctor. I want results, not sweet-talk and excuses. I want cure, not promises. If you can't do it get out of the way. This is my view. If naive Americans did not learn anything during the last 4 years, they will get what they deserve in the next 4 years. This will not affect me significantly in either way. Let them have a test of the third world country. Please refer to the Rush Limbaugh quote below.
As for myself, by your grace, this country has given me much more than I deserve, and I am quite successful in what I do. Thank you very much for inquiring about it. I love this country very much, and I want its continued success.
As for me being a king, it's all about perception. Money can help somewhat, but the real king-maker is the perception of being a king. I have seen many rich people leading very simple life; they are not king. When I was a student in Dhaka University, there were many days when I did not know where my lunch money will come from, but - never thought of myself as a poor fellow. I thought of it as a temporary hurdle, which I need to overcome at that moment. I did not blame anybody for my economic hardship. In my book, there is no pride being poor. Poverty is a curse, and it is individual's responsibility to lift it. No one caused it or no one will lift it for anybody. Yes, I know many places it cannot be done due to lack of opportunity. But, you cannot say that in the USA. I laugh at those who blame rich for their poverty and distress. If you blame others for being poor here, you will forever remain poor. Rich and poor go through more or less the same system. When I came here, I had $150 in my pocket. I did not know anybody; nobody gave me a lift; I had to earn all I have.
Also, I do not believe you that can help the poor, by destroying the rich. They did not make someone poor, no matter what your party politics dictates you. That's why - I love Lincoln's quotes so much. I know many of us are allergic to those quotes. As a result, the moment I circulated those quotes, they started to protest. Those are the proverbial partisan-political ideologues. I know they do not like to hear the truth for the sake of their political ideology.
As for answering to your party talking-points: Republicans are party of rich, and Democrats are party for poor, I will refer you to the Lincoln quotes below.
Thank you so much for facilitating me to vent myself. I feel much better now.
Jiten Roy
____________________
"Sometime ignorant people can make a change also, and when they do, it isn't good" - Rush Limbaugh
____________________
"You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people's initiative and independence. You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves."
--- On Sun, 9/9/12, Jaffor <jaffor@gmail.com> wrote:
I am beginning to doubt the veracity of Abe Lincoln's comment which was posted in another thread by a blind supporter of Rush Limbaugh.
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