The second point is a funny one. Atheist people claim they do not have faith in God. Again it is fine with me and most people. However it is funny to watch some of them talking about God all the time.
Again, you have to know at least basics of Sharia before you talk about it.
Shalom!
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Jun 23, 2013 10:54 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2013 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
I think highly of Sharia. I also think highly of US constitution and our own.
However it is more important HOW these laws are being applied. As I said, Muslims of Bangladesh are NOT serious about it. Most of the people who speak about Sharia says out of emotions.
I knew this man who worked at a top multi-national company in Bangladesh. He would come over and just wanted to poke me. So he started speaking highly about Shorbohara party (Communists). I did not say much and said it is fine as long he was convinced about it. He kept talking about it. So one day I told him that, if communism became a reality, this man has to share him house with the care taker of his huge land he had and treat them much better. He also have to submit all of his property (He is a rich man and a powerful man) to the state. Since that day, he NEVER mention his love for communists.
Sharia gives us a good solution. It also requires that, we punish people only after we are 100% sure of the crimes. In Bangladesh we have some fundamental issues with our judicial process and we have to fix them first. Regardless we ever implement Sharia in this country. Hopefully all of us can agree that, our judicial process have to improve and it has many structural issues.
He also has a version Islamic Rule (Caliphate) suitable for Bangladesh, but, I am sure, he has strong objection for the RamRajjya in India.
>>>>>>>>> I have NEVER said anything about Caliphate here or anywhere.
Also the hard cold fact is you should NOT compare Hinduism with Islam. Hinduism does NOT have any set of laws all Hindus agree on. The laws of Manu will be rejected by majority Hindus even before anyone propose it. Since they are contradictory, incomplete and racist in nature.
Sharia has some issue with it's application but the laws themselves are very solid and fair to all population.
Again, I am not trying to implement Sharia or even said anything in favor or against it.
Shalom!
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jun 20, 2013 4:04 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
Sent from my iPhone
Sent from my iPhone
I have made some suggestions with the best of intention. I intellectually disagree with current course. However I am well aware that, I am not the one who will chart the course to address the issue. It has to be leaders from minority communities with a long term perspective for well being of their community and Bangladesh as well.
The Unity council consistantly tries to project Bangladesh as a heaven for Islamists and I strongly disagree with that narrative. It is counter productive and hurting OUR country. In the long run the Muslims of Bangladesh have to get involved in local levels and that will be the best protection. As history proven that, our politicians are more concern with their election over security of any community. So we the people have to unite for such noble causes. However when Islam is vilified, it is difficult for most Muslims to take part.
We are NOT fanatic but we are religious people. Recent election shown us religion has a role to play in our lives (From all communities) and any attempt to divorce religion from our lives will not be successful.
I only shared my ideas, do not need to get upset over it. Like you I also like see end of any injustice on anyone in our land.
10. Your duty is to protect the minority population by giving them a second class citizen status. Isn't it?
>>>>>>> No. I only want to offer them more secured and peaceful lives.
Shalom!
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 3:29 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
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Monday, June 24, 2013
Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
About the other comment about discussing religion in this forum; that's mainly for two reasons - 1) religion is the hottest topic now a days, and 2) there are people, like you, who bring religion in most conversations, mainly for promotional purposes.
>>>>>>>>> I have NO problem with someone discussing religion. I just hope those people know about the subject they are talking about.
-----Original Message-----
QR: "Sharia gives us a good solution. It also requires that, we punish people only after we are 100% sure of the crimes."
OK, now you can bag your Sharia Law. If you are 99.9% sure, what will you do in your Sharia System of Justice? For your information, it is humanly impossible, in most cases, to be 100% sure of the committed crimes; that's why modern laws have "beyond the reasonable doubt" clause in them.
Also, I believe - it is a part of the Sharia Law that a raped victim has to find 4 witnesses to prove her allegation. Can this be ever achieved? So, the poor woman has no chance of winning in the Islamic court ever; rather she will get flogged or stoned for the allegation. Your logical thoughts are forever fogged by your faith; you need help, my friend. These logic and faith cannot live side by side.
About the other comment about discussing religion in this forum; that's mainly for two reasons - 1) religion is the hottest topic now a days, and 2) there are people, like you, who bring religion in most conversations, mainly for promotional purposes.
Jiten Roy
Yes, you got it right; Q. Rahman is waiting, like a Hawk, for an opportune moment to implement Sharia Law in Bangladesh,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, if I was, I would said so. Many times I explained this topic.
-----Original Message-----
Yes, you got it right; Q. Rahman is waiting, like a Hawk, for an opportune moment to implement Sharia Law in Bangladesh, in which everybody lives happily ever after, including other religious communities. He also has a version Islamic Rule (Caliphate) suitable for Bangladesh, but, I am sure, he has strong objection for the RamRajjya in India.
Jiten Roy
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
You do not want Sharia law today. So you want it tomorrow!
Can you tell us why Sharia law is sacred? Was this code revealed from God to the prophet?
You are talking about high moral values. Who, if there are any at all, in this society have high moral values? When will the society have people of high moral values to lead us with Sharia law? How would you know that the time has come for Sharia law?
Looks like you have in your vision an Islamic rule in Bangladesh! Correct me if I am wrong.
Among all the Islamic parties in Bangladesh which one, if there is any, is eventually going to rule Bangladesh using the true Islamic model?
On Jun 18, 2013, at 11:51 PM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
Almost in every issue you bring Islam. That is fine admittedly annoying and boring though given the topics we discuss here. But you seem to make Islam the complete code of life including political one. Here lies the potential danger
>>>>>>>>> I think you are a little paranoid. Several times I said, albeit I feel Sharia offers good solution, I am NOT for implementing that platform in our country today. Collectively our moral standard is very low and there is a great chance of abuse of these sacred codes (Holy to Muslims). Pakistan period (And current state) is well known for abusing Islam. Unless we have value driven leaders and leaders who are aware of Islamic standards, they cannot be custodians of such laws. In the QurĂ¡n, it says even if your enemy stands in front of you, you have to be JUST (Be fair) to that enemy ( Source: Al Qur'an 5:8) Again if you admire the US constitution, you will know it says "All men are created equal...." at start BUT a good part of Americans were not treated equally (By law) for centuries. Until recently (As late as 1962) that civil rights movement attempted to correct previous mistakes. Similarly American women were not allowed to vote until 1920. Therefore, I am absolutely sure that Sharia offers good solution for humanity BUT I am not for forcing it to anyone. I am for educating people and lawmakers about it. Until people want such changes in laws. Firstly if someone want to reject Sharia, they have to know something about it. In our case most people do not have any idea what it is but they reject it because Fox news told you it is bad!! Before the last election of the president, the chief of Islamic Oikyo Jote (an ally of AL) clearly said that he did not approve nomination of a woman for president. >>>>>>>>>> Kindly do NOT learn about Islam from such spineless people. If you like to know what Islam says, ask a good scholar or imam in your area. There is no harm in learning new things. I enjoyed reading Mahabharata when I was a kid. It did not diminish anything from me. When I learnt few verses of the holy Veda, it only increased my respect for Sanatana Dharma. I invite you do learn about Islam (Since you talk about it all the time). Shalom!
-----Original Message----- From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Jun 18, 2013 7:50 pm Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
Let me say a few words on the issue of second class citizenship in a theocratic or semi theocratic state. The humanity had to pay huge price before it realized that "separation of church and the state" should be the basic principle of a modern state. A religious state discriminates against religious minorities and women. Islamic Republic of Pakistan is an example. I still remember from 10th grade Civics that no nonMuslim can become the president of the country. I believe it is still valid. Muslim Brotherhood will not let a woman to become the head of the state. Before the last election of the president, the chief of Islamic Oikyo Jote (an ally of AL) clearly said that he did not approve nomination of a woman for president.
Almost in every issue you bring Islam. That is fine admittedly annoying and boring though given the topics we discuss here. But you seem to make Islam the complete code of life including political one. Here lies the potential danger. Islam teaches great values no doubt, but don't let it be a tool in the hands of the Islamists. Islam is absolutely in no danger under the original 1972 constitution. Also there is no reason to believe that AL is less religious than it's opponents.
On Jun 17, 2013, at 6:46 AM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
brother lately you are being driven more with emotion than logic. Which is unlike your general self.
-----Original Message----- From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jun 16, 2013 2:16 pm Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Minority Persecution: video
1. I am not sure if Guha is linked to the government. Is he really acting as an agent of the government? Even if he is, why are you trying to shut his mouth?
2. By saying the need to protect people of all religious backgrounds, you are resorting to a dangerous generalization. Looks like to you human rights activities specific to children, women, Hindus, etc. are superfluous. This is called intellectual dishonesty.
3. Even living in America (?) you are trying to be over patriotic. Looks like it is OK for you to accept criticism of American policies and actions by Americans, but you are not ready to tolerate Bangladeshi policies and actions to be criticized and protested by Bangladeshis. This is called double standard. With a great passion you listen to the news on the persecution of the Rohingya, but never advised them to go to the Myanmar government for the solution as they must not do any thing that will tarnish the image of the country. This is another example of your double standard.
4. Are you sure that D.C. rallies criticize Islam? As I know they criticize fanatic and Jihadi Islamists.
5. Foreign agencies do not have police. True. But they have money and power. This is not unknown to you. Don't pretend that the third world countries to not yield to foreign influence. Outside pressure works well sometimes. You should be aware of lobbyists being hired by Jamat-BNP group. It should not be unknown to you that some foreign governments and agencies have been trying to intervene in the trial of the collaborators. Have you said any thing against them?
6. You are pretending that you have enough trust in the Home ministry. Thanks for being a truly a democratic and patriotic citizen.
7. You should be more specific about who are trying to "kick" Islam.
8. This is a problem with the dishonest intellectuals who believe that people like Dr. Mizanur Rahman have to be ignored as whatever they say is a part of a political game.
9. I have been noticing that: you have been sharing "authentic" Islamic values. I hope you have been doing this in forums run by fanatic and fundamentalist Islamic groups aslo.
10. Your duty is to protect the minority population by giving them a second class citizen status. Isn't it?
From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
We have our attitude problems also. When Mr. Guha tells us the stories on minority persecution in Bangladesh, we have our cold reaction: Why are you saying this here! Go and tell the government. Pretty nice way to shirk the responsibility!
>>>>>>>>>>>> With all due respect, it became a habit of you to assume the worst in others. Nope, I said it to member Guha because he is well linked with government. Unless there is pressure to protect weak and vulnerable people in our community (Of all religious background), we cannot get there. When they go for rally and demonstration in D.C, we criticize them.
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