Dear all,
Last two posts below demonstrate the fundamental problem of Mukto-Mona.
These pundits want to comment on Islam but do not have even primary idea of the subject.
Even a child will tell you that do not buy something you can't afford. You pulled out a completely vacuous statement, which tells everything about you.
>>>>>>>> Actually it speaks volume about YOU. As per Islam marriage is not only about money. In this case a man is expected to treat (If he has more than one wife) equally. Which includes how much time he spends with one. So if one spend one day with one wife, it is expected to spend the next day with the other wife. Same condition goes for housing, expenses etc. If there is a dispute, one has to judge them equally.
It is far beyond money. The noble Qurán stress this point and says a man will be accountable in front of God for this. So if a God fearing person is unsure about being fair to more than one wife, it is better to marry ONLY ONE.
it is important to mention. Since NO other religious book has this codified law in them. NONE!!
It shows that either you don't see the other side of the argument or you don't give a damn about the other side.
>>>>>>>>>> If you had an open mind about my opinions, you could have said, it shows that I have studied other religious books to know this for a fact. Based on your opinions, it appears you are not aware of Islamic values but sadly too eager to say ugly things about Islam and attack anyone who dares to disagree with such absurd point of views.
I don't know – how you see "fairness" in a totally unfair statement. It amazes me every time you say something; it gives me a glimpse of the mindset of a religious person.
>>>>>>>>> Fairness is an unfair statement?? Please explain yourself.
---Do you realize that you are speaking on behalf of all religions, all moralists, and even all socio-economic systems that want to give a woman dignified position in the society. The restriction is not exclusively Islamic.
>>>>>>>> I ONLY explained what Islam says (That is why I started by saying, as per Islam....). I have NOT said anything about any other faiths. Don't know why you even bothered to reply?
-----Look at the condition "if you cannot deal with more than one wife FAIRLY)". Why do you think the prince who spent $13 million in one night for a dancer (his woman for the night) cannot deal with more than one wife fairly? A more progressive view should be not to allow a man to have more than one wife. The "if" clause has to be dropped. If a man can have multiple wives and women, a woman should be allowed to have multiple husbands and men.
>>>>>>>>> brother dealing with one wife fairly is not easy. Ask any married man. So if one decides to marry more than one, it is even more difficult. The Qurán is a progressive book (My opinion), so even 1400 years ago it spelled out the obvious. If you still doubtful, ask any married man anywhere in the world. It takes a lot of work to make marriage work.
Those who want to be safe in the day of judgement, it is better to marry only one.
As the society is progressing, all religions are found to be interpreted as allowing a man only one wife and a woman only one husband. Even in ancient India this used to be emphasized on.
>>>>>>>> Not always true. What if a couple want to have kids and the wife is not able. what if the wife have other physical problems? Islam allows to have more than one wife without abandoning the first wife. Also there are so many cases of extra marital affairs. It is better to marry someone than treating a lady like a prostitute (and depriving her for her rights over husband).
If you refer to the Koran or Islam on every issue, you simply make things more misleading as the half-educated and illiterate mollahs will advocate for the dogmatic views of a religious book. And this will make transition to one man-one woman union very difficult as basically no religion has accepted this as a strict principle.
>>>>>>>>>>> If half educated people (about Islam) get over their obsession about blaming Islam for everything, I do not need to speak about Islam so much. I refer to the text of Islam to offer references and to add quality (And credibility) to our discussions.
I have NEVER said anyone has to agree with me. I simply want to share factual information about Islam (when we discuss Islam here).
Therefore, I am NOT advocating Islam to you but explaining it to this forum. Since most people (Even with Muslim sounding names) do not know about Islam. Hopefully my effort will make lives of half educated mullahs even more difficult. They cannot get away with bluffing people about Islam anymore.
Lastly, I have tried to use religion to bring people closer ( I have quoted from Veda, Bible as well). That is the fundamental difference between my approach and those who want to sell Islam for worldly gain.
Shalom!
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Sep 2, 2013 3:25 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Saudi Arabia Passes Domestic Abuse Ban For First Time
"The Qurán is the ONLY religious book that says, Marry only one (If you cannot deal with more than one wife FAIRLY)."
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 2, 2013 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Saudi Arabia Passes Domestic Abuse Ban For First Time
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 2, 2013 6:27 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Saudi Arabia Passes Domestic Abuse Ban For First Time
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 11:11 PM
Subject: [mukto-mona] Saudi Arabia Passes Domestic Abuse Ban For First Time
Saudi Arabia Passes Domestic Abuse Ban For First Time
Saudi Prince in Night Club spends thirteen million dollar:
Saudi Arabia - Britain's Mysterious Ally
Saudi Arabia - Britain's Mysterious Ally
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http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68
http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585
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Tuesday, September 3, 2013
Re: [mukto-mona] Saudi Arabia Passes Domestic Abuse Ban For First Time
Let us analyze....
-----Original Message-----
This is a no-brainer argument; why is this so valuable to you, Mr. Rahman? Even a child will tell you that do not buy something you can't afford. You pulled out a completely vacuous statement, which tells everything about you. It shows that either you don't see the other side of the argument or you don't give a damn about the other side. I don't know – how you see "fairness" in a totally unfair statement. It amazes me every time you say something; it gives me a glimpse of the mindset of a religious person.
Thank you.
Jiten Roy
"As per Islam, it is illegal to visit erotic dancer. It is immoral to spend that kind of money while so many hungry people around us all over the world."
-----Do you realize that you are speaking on behalf of all religions, all moralists, and even all socio-economic systems that want to give a woman dignified position in the society. The restriction is not exclusively Islamic.
"The Qurán is the ONLY religious book that says, Marry only one (If you cannot deal with more than one wife FAIRLY)."
-----Look at the condition "if you cannot deal with more than one wife FAIRLY)". Why do you think the prince who spent $13 million in one night for a dancer (his woman for the night) cannot deal with more than one wife fairly? A more progressive view should be not to allow a man to have more than one wife. The "if" clause has to be dropped. If a man can have multiple wives and women, a woman should be allowed to have multiple husbands and men.
As the society is progressing, all religions are found to be interpreted as allowing a man only one wife and a woman only one husband. Even in ancient India this used to be emphasized on.
If you refer to the Koran or Islam on every issue, you simply make things more misleading as the half-educated and illiterate mollahs will advocate for the dogmatic views of a religious book. And this will make transition to one man-one woman union very difficult as basically no religion has accepted this as a strict principle.
From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
Is it illegal in the U. K to go to a night club and pay huge tips to an erotic dancer?
>>>>>>>> As per Islam, it is illigal to visit erotic dancer. It is immoral to spend that kind of money while so many hungry people around us all over the world. How is it tribal culture? Probably this prince has multiple wives and by marrying several women he has not done any thing irreligious >>>>>>>>>>>>> good question. As I said, Islamic values does not always agree with Arab tribal values. If and when a man takes more than one wife (Very rare) there are strict code of conduct about treating them fairly. It is so important that, Qurán says if you cannot be fair than marry only ONE woman. The Qurán is the ONLY religious book that says, Marry only one (If you cannot deal with more than one wife FAIRLY). I am simply trying to provoke your thought Mr. Rahman. >>>>>>>> You did that sir and I replied.
-----Original Message----- From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sat, Aug 31, 2013 5:10 pm Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Saudi Arabia Passes Domestic Abuse Ban For First Time
Is it illegal in the U. K to go to a night club and pay huge tips to an erotic dancer? How is it tribal culture? Probably this prince has multiple wives and by marrying several women he has not done any thing irreligious. Who knows maybe he treats his women including his wives the best way. He was so kind, overwhelmed, and grateful to the dancer (his woman for the night) that he treated her in the best possible way he could think of.
I am simply trying to provoke your thought Mr. Rahman. Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 31, 2013, at 2:30 AM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
A good news indeed. "Up to a one year in prison" can be too light a punishment for a serious crime. Maximum fine of $13,300 is no problem for the Sheikhs. Watch the unbelievable video below in which a Saudi prince is pouring $13 million on the head of a female dancer. Putting of cash by the prince inside the bras is also not less interesting. Also watch how busy people around him are. It is really a solid example of feudal whim in this modern world.
>>>>>>>> These princes do stay above the law in most cases. So I think it is a good start and they should continue to come close to "Real Islamic values" than their tribal culture. We know REAL men do not abuse their women. This is what prophet Muhammad said......
The most perfect of the believers in faith are the best of them in morals. And the best among them are those who are best to their wives.[ Source: Narrated in MosnadAhmad, #7354, and Al-Tirmizi, #1162 ]
Shalom!-----Original Message----- From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Aug 30, 2013 5:16 pm Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Saudi Arabia Passes Domestic Abuse Ban For First Time
A good news indeed. "Up to a one year in prison" can be too light a punishment for a serious crime. Maximum fine of $13,300 is no problem for the Sheikhs. Watch the unbelievable video below in which a Saudi prince is pouring $13 million on the head of a female dancer. Putting of cash by the prince inside the bras is also not less interesting. Also watch how busy people around him are. It is really a solid example of feudal whim in this modern world.
From: SyedAslam <Syed.Aslam3@gmail.com>
[Watch the video in the above link]
<SaudiLawToPreventDomestocViolence.JPG>
In a historic move, Saudi Arabia banned domestic abuse this week, outlawing any form of abuse at home or in the workplace.
The Council of Ministers' approval of the law Monday marks the first time the country has officially recognized domestic violence as a punishable crime. Offenders may face up to a year in prison and a maximum fine of 50,000 Saudi riyal (about $13,300), the Saudi Gazette reports.
The law will also provide shelter for victims of abuse and ensure the identities of those who report it are kept confidential.
"This is a good law that serves major segments of the society in the kingdom, including women, children, domestic workers and non-domestic workers," Khaled al-Fakher, secretary general of the government-funded National Society for Human Rights, told Reuters.
Though domestic abuse typically has been an issue that is kept behind closed doors in the Islamic country, an anti-abuse campaign -- the country's first -- launched earlierthis year, urging Saudis to report cases of violence. Backed by the King Khalid Charitable Foundation, the ad featured a veiled woman with a black eye, along with the slogan "Some things can't be covered. Fighting women's abuse together."
(Story continues below.)
While passage of the domestic abuse ban represents a significant step forward for women's rights in Saudi Arabia, activists have pointed to a potential problem: implementation.
Speaking to BBC News, Suad Abu-Dayyeh of anti-violence group Equality Nowrecommended training programs for law enforcement officers and court officials. She also warned that the country's male guardianship system, which requires all women have a male guardian, could be an impediment.
In the past, international advocacy group Human Rights Watch has taken issue with the kingdom's guardianship policy and sex segregation.
"The Saudi government sacrifices basic human rights to maintain male control over women," Farida Deif, an HRW women's rights researcher for the Middle East, said in a statement. "Saudi women won't make any progress until the government ends the abuses that stem from these misguided policies."
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After generations of male domination, Saudi women are preparing to have a say in the running of Saudi Arabia for the first time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9GGn91NUwI
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