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Thursday, October 31, 2013

Re: [mukto-mona] Leninism is no Marxism



"If you think this change will install full-fledged Marxist Socialism in the Industrial Societies, you could be wrong." - I have never thought so, or preached it.  Marxist Socialism never was implemented in any country.  Some Orwellian pigs came to power preaching it and could not sustain in it lacking popular participation.

"that society is now the envy of the rest of the world." - it was probably so about five decades ago.  Presently, in the quality of public life index, the Americans are not in the top ten list.

And lastly, if you have no problem with tea party mentality, you are suffering from severe identity crisis.  You have come to that land hundreds of years after that incident.  Though that incident occurred to demand reservation in the British Parliament, the ultra right of the Republicans are antidemocratic in every bit of their action and, lacking foresight, actually digging their own grave.


On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 5:31 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Dr. Das,

Of course I can see some socialist principles are creeping into the Industrial Societies. As I told before - society needs to balance these two extreme systems. If you think this change will install full-fledged Marxist Socialism in the Industrial Societies, you could be wrong. Don't forget so quickly, Capitalism is also creeping into the Socialist Russian and Chinese societies.
 
Yes, thousands of lives were lost in the American Civil War to build a greater American Society, and that society is now the envy of the rest of the world. So, the lives lost in American Civil war is not in vein, unlike the lives lost for installing the Socialism around the world, which ultimately crumbled on it's own weight.

The Tea-Party mentality is needed to maintain the check & balance between the Capitalist and Marxist systems. So, I have no problem with it.


Thanks.


Jiten Roy




On Thursday, October 31, 2013 6:49 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
"Mr. Ray, Marx wrote - socialism will not come without revolution to the extent of destruction and dissolution of the society."- Citation please.

World has seen no more violent a change than the American Civil War.  What is your opinion about it Dr. Roy?  Besides, have you heard about Fabian Socialism?  Don't you think, it has already creeped in most of the Industrial Societies?  There is no turning back.  With your tea party mindset of Republican Party variety, your observation about socialism is totally wrong.


On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 4:55 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Mr. Ray said:
Marx wrote in a polemic in 1844, "Without revolution socialism cannot be viable. It needs this political act to the extent that it needs destruction and dissolution."
 
World has seen and known revolutions in Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, etc. causing destruction and dissolution of existing societies in the name of installing socialism around the world. In the process – at least hundred million lives were lost. After all these destruction and death, the socialist empire crumbled, without counter-revolution by the capitalist system; no life was lost; no destruction and dissolution of anything needed either; socialism crumbled on its own weight. That's how it's supposed to be. Yet, Mr. Ray still finds prospect of real Marxist socialism in this day and age.
 
Mr. Ray, Marx wrote - socialism will not come without revolution to the extent of destruction and dissolution of the society. Are you suggesting people will go for another revolution to install real Marxist society, much like the previous ones, and millions of people will sacrifice lives again? If not, what are we going to do with Marxism today?
 
Jiten Roy


On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 6:31 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
"The point is to remember Marx's motto, taken from Descartes: De omnibus dubitandum (doubt everything)." - Descartes might have got the idea from Buddhist dictum which says, "Doubt everything even if I told you."


On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 9:05 AM, Sankar Kumar Ray <sankarray62@rediffmail.com> wrote:
 
I thought I would refrain myself from the debate about whether Marxism is valid or not.Sadly enough, most of the participants to whom I am too very grateful assume that Marxism has failed. This is a grave misjudgement. From Plekhanov to Lenin-Trotsky, from Stalin to Mao, and from Gramsci-Lucas to Althusser one finds distortion of Marx. Marxism is yet to be applied , except partially in Paris Commune and Spanish Revolution (1930s).

I am giving a link to another piece of mine in Daily Times (must be read critically)

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2013\09\23\story_23-9-2013_pg3_5.

But I want to draw attention of Mukto-mona members to MEGA, the historic project of publishing Marx and Engels, insulated from 'partyocracy. I wrote an introductory on MEGA in kafila.org, but I would suggest all to read
Publishing  Marx and  Engels  after  1989: The fate of the MEGA

Lastly, my knowledge of Marx and Marxism (Leninism etc) is journalistic, not at all profound.
Sankar Ray

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