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Sunday, November 3, 2013

Re: [mukto-mona] Leninism is no Marxism



If Direndra Nath Dutta were not there in Pakistani Constituent assembly in 1948, the idiots would have swallowed the Urdu pill for good. What they got to loose when most of the population wanted try a language that was designed for the great Ummah? The way things are moving now, I would not be surprised if Arabic becomes our next mother tongue?

 
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss


On Saturday, November 2, 2013 7:35 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
"Your forefathers (During 1951) refused to assimilate to the language of the federal government (Urdu) and give up their language (Bangla), so why the double standard?" This is a stupid Paki argument.

"Did you know that Mr. Job comes from Arabic heritage?"- His Arabian Dad disowned him after birth, so his mother got married elsewhere and Jobs was the title of the man she married.  Typical Muslim(Arabian) attitude--"Screw the woman and forget the offspring".  Steve did not allow his biological father to contact him after he became famous.

(Low IQ is a requirement of the tea-party club!!) -An intelligent observation indeed.




On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 10:46 PM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
 


Many recent immigrants prefer to use their own language, and, therefore, mix with their own community only; many of them do not even bother to learn English. They are the new backward class.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your forefathers (During 1951) refused to assimilate to the language of the federal government (Urdu) and give up their language (Bangla), so why the double standard?



Now, about 100 million people receive food stamp; people even hide their actual income to seek food stamp. It's not a taboo any longer. This explains the lower standard of living.

>>>>>>>>>>>> So "Multi-cultarism" caused this?


Tea-Party mentality means smaller government mentality; I support that.

>>>>>>>>>> Nope. It means whole lot more than that. An intolerant bunch of people who wanted to hijack the US government to get their ways. No different than a thug. Unfortunately they are not smart enough to understand (Low IQ is a requirement of the tea-party club!!) that, even such stunt can bring down US government credit rating and ultimately cost billions to US tax payers. If they pull the same stunt again ( Shut down of the US government or defaulting on credit) in next three months, it will do more harm than what Bin Laden (Or his buddies) could do in 100 years!

These tea baggers happens to be very supportive of all US lead wars. When it comes to war they forget to speak about saving tax payer money. Only speak out when it comes to social services or education (Some moronic leaders of tea party want to shut down US department of education).

So maybe you need to learn more about this movement before you pledge to this group of morons.


What that has to do with identity crisis.

>>>>>>>> Like Rush Limbaugh fan club most members are white. They cannot make it while only (Like the old days) because it is illegal.



Steve Jobs, the founder of the Apple Empire? He was dirt poor in his early life;

>>>>>>> You are right. Did you know that Mr. Job comes from Arabic heritage?


Bill Gates did not start from a rich background either.

>>>>>>> Wrong. Bill's dad was rich and highly educated.


These people show how – anybody can think rich and be rich; it has nothing to do with identity.

>>>>>>>> Actually Barrack Obama captures the "American way" more than most well known Americans. Here is a black man (Actually he is bi-racial) who barely knew his biological father eventually became the first non-white American president. This can happen ONLY in America (With a middle name "Hossain").

Americans made huge progress (Still have racial issues but made progress) in racial equity. It also has two Indian American governors (Both in deep south).


I am glad you are proud of being American but it seems you tend to speak (And join groups) about topics without knowing much about them. One does not have to be American like you to explain America. Most Americans are unaware of the rest of their vast country. A man from Idaho does not know much about culture of New York. A foreign student who lived in New York city probably know more about NYC than most Americans. Then comes the sub-culture of each region and social norms. Which varies from place to place.

The NRA supporting Americans have very different world view (Similar to tea party folks) than rest of civilized Americans.

Shalom!

-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Nov 1, 2013 5:45 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Leninism is no Marxism

 

"that society is now the envy of the rest of the world." - it was probably so about five decades ago.  Presently, in the quality of public life index, the Americans are not in the top ten list. – K. Das

Do you know how American society got deteriorated so such? Recent immigrants have rejected the American melting-pot idealism; they want to keep their own culture and identity. Many recent immigrants prefer to use their own language, and, therefore, mix with their own community only; many of them do not even bother to learn English. They are the new backward class.
 
Multiculturalism has changed the social psyche. Millions of people now believe they deserve government benefits; this was not the case a few decades ago. People used to feel ashamed to accept any government help. Very few would accept food stamps. Now, about 100 million people receive food stamp; people even hide their actual income to seek food stamp. It's not a taboo any longer. This explains the lower standard of living.
 
"And lastly, if you have no problem with tea party mentality, you are suffering from severe identity crisis.  You have come to that land hundreds of years after that incident. " – K. Das
 
I do not know what identity crisis has to do with Tea-Party mentality. Tea-Party mentality means smaller government mentality; I support that. That's all. What that has to do with identity crisis.
 
What is one's identity, anyway? Are you trying to say – someone coming from a poor country should not have American dreams? Have you heard the story of Steve Jobs, the founder of the Apple Empire? He was dirt poor in his early life; Bill Gates did not start from a rich background either. These people show how – anybody can think rich and be rich; it has nothing to do with identity. 
 
You must be suffering from the depressive Marxist mentality?
 
 
Jiten Roy


On Thursday, October 31, 2013 9:07 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
"If you think this change will install full-fledged Marxist Socialism in the Industrial Societies, you could be wrong." - I have never thought so, or preached it.  Marxist Socialism never was implemented in any country.  Some Orwellian pigs came to power preaching it and could not sustain in it lacking popular participation.

"that society is now the envy of the rest of the world." - it was probably so about five decades ago.  Presently, in the quality of public life index, the Americans are not in the top ten list.

And lastly, if you have no problem with tea party mentality, you are suffering from severe identity crisis.  You have come to that land hundreds of years after that incident.  Though that incident occurred to demand reservation in the British Parliament, the ultra right of the Republicans are antidemocratic in every bit of their action and, lacking foresight, actually digging their own grave.


On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 5:31 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Dr. Das,

Of course I can see some socialist principles are creeping into the Industrial Societies. As I told before - society needs to balance these two extreme systems. If you think this change will install full-fledged Marxist Socialism in the Industrial Societies, you could be wrong. Don't forget so quickly, Capitalism is also creeping into the Socialist Russian and Chinese societies.
 
Yes, thousands of lives were lost in the American Civil War to build a greater American Society, and that society is now the envy of the rest of the world. So, the lives lost in American Civil war is not in vein, unlike the lives lost for installing the Socialism around the world, which ultimately crumbled on it's own weight.

The Tea-Party mentality is needed to maintain the check & balance between the Capitalist and Marxist systems. So, I have no problem with it.


Thanks.


Jiten Roy




On Thursday, October 31, 2013 6:49 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
"Mr. Ray, Marx wrote - socialism will not come without revolution to the extent of destruction and dissolution of the society."- Citation please.

World has seen no more violent a change than the American Civil War.  What is your opinion about it Dr. Roy?  Besides, have you heard about Fabian Socialism?  Don't you think, it has already creeped in most of the Industrial Societies?  There is no turning back.  With your tea party mindset of Republican Party variety, your observation about socialism is totally wrong.


On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 4:55 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Mr. Ray said:
Marx wrote in a polemic in 1844, "Without revolution socialism cannot be viable. It needs this political act to the extent that it needs destruction and dissolution."
 
World has seen and known revolutions in Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, etc. causing destruction and dissolution of existing societies in the name of installing socialism around the world. In the process – at least hundred million lives were lost. After all these destruction and death, the socialist empire crumbled, without counter-revolution by the capitalist system; no life was lost; no destruction and dissolution of anything needed either; socialism crumbled on its own weight. That's how it's supposed to be. Yet, Mr. Ray still finds prospect of real Marxist socialism in this day and age.
 
Mr. Ray, Marx wrote - socialism will not come without revolution to the extent of destruction and dissolution of the society. Are you suggesting people will go for another revolution to install real Marxist society, much like the previous ones, and millions of people will sacrifice lives again? If not, what are we going to do with Marxism today?
 
Jiten Roy


On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 6:31 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
 
"The point is to remember Marx's motto, taken from Descartes: De omnibus dubitandum (doubt everything)." - Descartes might have got the idea from Buddhist dictum which says, "Doubt everything even if I told you."


On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 9:05 AM, Sankar Kumar Ray <sankarray62@rediffmail.com> wrote:
 
I thought I would refrain myself from the debate about whether Marxism is valid or not.Sadly enough, most of the participants to whom I am too very grateful assume that Marxism has failed. This is a grave misjudgement. From Plekhanov to Lenin-Trotsky, from Stalin to Mao, and from Gramsci-Lucas to Althusser one finds distortion of Marx. Marxism is yet to be applied , except partially in Paris Commune and Spanish Revolution (1930s).

I am giving a link to another piece of mine in Daily Times (must be read critically)

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2013\09\23\story_23-9-2013_pg3_5.

But I want to draw attention of Mukto-mona members to MEGA, the historic project of publishing Marx and Engels, insulated from 'partyocracy. I wrote an introductory on MEGA in kafila.org, but I would suggest all to read
Publishing  Marx and  Engels  after  1989: The fate of the MEGA

Lastly, my knowledge of Marx and Marxism (Leninism etc) is journalistic, not at all profound.
Sankar Ray

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