Dear Dr Roy:
Your doubts and points are genuine. You have a right to reject Marx and Marxism but if I have judged you properly, you have an open mind. But I have some differences with you.It is wrong to state that Marxism has failed as it was not applied at all. Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, Mao, Pol Pot etc had indulged in misinterpretation of Marx. What they dished out as Maxism was a brazen distortion of Marx and Engels.
We must refrain from give a dog a bad name and hang it.
If you are interested, I suggest you to read some of Paresh Chattopadhyay's papers like Myth of Twentieth Century Socialism.
Warmly,
Sankar Ray
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sun, 03 Nov 2013 23:21:02
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Leninism is no Marxism
As I said before, the best way to initiate a discussion on any subject is to make a case for it. Think of this forum as a court-room, where you make your case before the judge.
So, please make a case for Marx, and Marxism. Tell us why we should learn more about Marx, particularly now, when all those experts like - Mao, Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc. miserably failed to implement Marx's theory. You are not doing that. Instead, you are asking readers to read about Marx without telling why. You asked us to read your article, I did that , but - no case was made there. If you have a valid point why we need Marx now, please make that case. Otherwise, I have no interest to learn more about Marx right now.
Jiten Roy
-Seuss
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sun, 03 Nov 2013 00:27:30
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Cc: "bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com" <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Leninism is no Marxism
Thank you. I would rather rest my case here.
-SD
-Seuss
You put a question. 'Are you going to bring sociologists and doctors to make your point? '. This query is bereft of scientific temper. If one has to be objective, one will not ask/say who states or writes this/that. But if one does the opposite, one becomes subjective. It seems you don't have the patience even to read the seminal paper by Dr Clarke.
Frankly speaking, I erred in initiating the debate. It seems the papers/references, I mentioned are not even read by most of those who participated.
I seek apology for initiating the debate.
Wish you all the very best
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, 02 Nov 2013 04:18:30
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Cc: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Leninism is no Marxism
I would request you to read a paper by a prominent Marxist sociologist-Was Lenin a Marxist? The Populist Roots of Marxism-LeninismSimon Clarke, Department of Sociology, University of Warwick (http://www.warwick.ac.uk/~syrbe/pubs/lenin.pdf).
I think the debate may get out of a stagnant state as most of you refuse to critically look at Lenin and Plekhanov.
Will come back to Paris Commune and Spanish revolution later.
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, 01 Nov 2013 06:34:53
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Cc: "bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com" <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Leninism is no Marxism
"This is a grave misjudgement. From Plekhanov to Lenin-Trotsky, from Stalin to Mao, and from Gramsci-Lucas to Althusser one finds distortion of Marx. Marxism is yet to be applied , except partially in Paris Commune and Spanish Revolution (1930s)."
How do you conclude that Marxism was partially introduced in Paris Commune and Spanish Revolution? Why partially? And, what else was missing from that system? I find it very odd that you claim yourself as being not a perfect Marxist and yet, you are ready to judge other systems. Marxism was put in practice by some revolutionary leaders but it just did not work. The experiment went wrong and you conveniently call them Leninism or Maoism? What makes you so sure that Marxism is so precise that it can be applied in its pure form and it should work? I am not sure I understand your lines of arguments. As I said before, you sound like some of our Islamist, who still think that there is a purer form of Islam that solve all our problems.
It is laughable that you still dreaming of a day when pure Marxism will be applied somewhere on this earth and people will start singing Kumbaya my Lord? That sounds like a wet dream to me.
-SD"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-Seuss
On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 6:42 PM, Sankar Kumar Ray <sankarray62@rediffmail.com> wrote:
I thought I would refrain myself from the debate about whether Marxism is valid or not.Sadly enough, most of the participants to whom I am too very grateful assume that Marxism has failed. This is a grave misjudgement. From Plekhanov to Lenin-Trotsky, from Stalin to Mao, and from Gramsci-Lucas to Althusser one finds distortion of Marx. Marxism is yet to be applied , except partially in Paris Commune and Spanish Revolution (1930s).
I am giving a link to another piece of mine in Daily Times (must be read critically)
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2013\09\23\story_23-9-2013_pg3_5.
But I want to draw attention of Mukto-mona members to MEGA, the historic project of publishing Marx and Engels, insulated from 'partyocracy. I wrote an introductory on MEGA in kafila.org, but I would suggest all to readPublishing Marx and Engels after 1989: The fate of the MEGA
Lastly, my knowledge of Marx and Marxism (Leninism etc) is journalistic, not at all profound.
Sankar Ray
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