Well, Professor Chakrabarty, you are confused between "the political struggle for the rights of the Bangalees within Pakistan from 1947 to 1971" and "the fight for and accomplishment of freedom in 1971."
The former was clearly done by the progressive political leaders and activists, including students, of East Bengal. Without it there would be no question of independence in 1971, as the Pakistani rulers would have had no reason to do what they started in the night of March 25, 1971.
The latter was imposed on the people of East Bengal by the Pakistani rulers on March 25, 1971. The truth is, even Sheikh Mujibur Rahman did not want Bangladesh; he wanted the rights of the Bangalees within the framework of Pakistan, and he waited for that to come from the Pakistani military rulers until he was arrested in the night of March 25, 1971. However, with the kind of brutality that was unleashed in East Bengal in that night by the Pakistani military, the honorable people of that land had no other dignified choice. They had to take up any kind of arms that they could manage. Again, with all due respect for the conviction and bravery of our freedom fighters, they were not strong enough to defeat the Pakistani military.
Sukhamaya Bain
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On Sunday, July 13, 2014 7:43 PM, "subimal chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
1. I am not aware of any statistics. But my experience is different. I had close relatives and close Hindu friends who joined liberation war. I will not be surprised if the number of Hindu freedom fighters was proportionately at least same as that of Muslim freedom fighters.
2. Sorry Dr. Bain, my last response was marred by an incomplete sentence and also slip of the pen. What I meant is that I did not want to be merely politically correct. Given my standard of judgment, I gave my honest opinion. As a matter of fact, when you say that without the political struggle for the rights of the Bangalees within Pakistan from 1947 to 1971, there would be no question of Bangladesh, or of freedom fight, or of Indian intervention, you are partially agreeing with me. For complete agreement you just need to add the phrases "arms struggle" and "international campaigns by our leaders" to the phrase "political struggle". You should also agree that these are not little things at all. So it is the Bengalis who were the prime movers. India was, I repeat, was only a strong catalyst. Definitely India would not have made East Pakistan a part of India after Niazi surrendered as she knew that it genuinely belonged to the Bengalis and she also knew that any attempt to do so would be disastrous.
3. Compare the Bangladesh freedom movement with the freedom movements of the colonies belonging to different colonial powers. Take Indian freedom as an example. In the final stage it was nothing but negotiations at various levels. But we all know that rebellions, arms insurgencies, political rallies, political discourses (even within the British Parliament), non-cooperation, etc. led to the final hours of negotiations. Moreover, holding colonies gradually became unviable. Then how can we say that our independence was less earned than the Indian independence?
On Friday, July 11, 2014 7:52 PM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Dr. Bain, Hindus were not politically inactive during the political movement based on 6-point demands. I am saying this with full confidence that 100% Hindu population was active during the uprising against West Pakistani regime. In fact, that was the first time Hindus started to feel that - they had the same rights and aspirations as millions of others. But, it is true that - a large portion of the Muslim population remained politically inactive during that movement.
I can also confidently say that - 100% Hindu population became directly affected either physically or psychologically, emotionally, and economically by the liberation struggle, whereas, a large portion of the Muslim population was not. As a result, most Hindus crossed the border at the very onset of the military operation. As a result, most of those people did not take up arms. But, their contribution towards independence of Bangladesh was huge, because - it was the burden of one crore refugees, mostly Hindus, that facilitated the Indian invasion of East Pakistan, without which Bangladesh may not be a reality today. No one should forget this piece of critical historical information for political expediency.
I fully agree with Dr. A. Rahman - it was a good thing that Hindus
did not lead the liberation struggle or take up arms in large number; that could have derailed or jeopardize the whole movement. As we know - even without it, West Pakistani regime propagandized the notion that "Malauns" were behind the movement in the East Pakistan, and used that propaganda to motivate West Pakistani soldiers and to mobilize public sentiment for their brutal crackdown in the East Pakistan. As a result, West Pakistani soldiers targeted only Hindus at the beginning.
I do remember all these nitty-gritty details – because I went through all these experiences, and remember them all, like yesterday's news.
I watched movement of Indian Army towards the border of East Pakistan from a border-town in the West Dinajpur. I tracked their progress on radio, and, subsequently, I heard frequent radio-broadcast from General Manik Shah, if my recollection is correct, for surrender warnings to all Pakistani soldiers in the East Pakistan. What I am trying to say is – Indian Army started a psychological warfare at the beginning before any attacks, and Pakistani soldiers caved in in that psychological warfare. That's how Indian soldiers liberated Bangladesh mostly without fight or casualty. It was an unprecedented historic warfare, but barely ever mentioned in the media.
I also watched Indian soldiers returning home after the liberation of Bangladesh. Thousands of people, mostly Bangladeshi refugees, along their way welcoming them back by hurling flowers at them. I have all these vivid memories, so I do not need to learn these facts from Historians or from the foreign journalists.
I know full well - whatever is the number of death during 9 months of liberation struggle, be that 30 thousand or 3 million, it was all caused by the Pakistani Army and Bengali collaborators. Most of these are not casualty of liberation war; they were cold blooded indiscriminate murders, which is called genocide. Pakistani army caused a pre-meditated Bengali-genocide during that time.
Jiten Roy
On Friday, July 11, 2014 5:23 AM, "ANISUR RAHMAN anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I fully concur with the views of Dr Bain that :- (1) the Bengali Muslims were divided into two groups, although the first group constituted the overwhelming majority and the second group was a pitiful minority. But the second group caused a disproportionate damage with the help of the Pakistani Army. (2) Hindus were not active in the independence struggle. I may add that that was good in the sense that, had Hindus been active, our cause and moral standing would have weakened, as Pakistanis would then claim that we are doing this only because of Hindu and Indian conspiracy (which was not the case). (3) India's help and crucial role is undeniable. Without India, we would now be speaking Urdu and Taliban would be rampaging our homeland as they are doing in Pakistan.
Now coming back to the mendacious claim of three million fatality, I would say that it is an insult to the memory of 40,000 or 50,000 people who actually laid their lives for the liberation of the country. It is, as if, their sacrifices were not adequate and had to be jacked up to look worthwhile. However, those traders of lies and deceit do not understand the inner sanctum of decency and human dignity. We should all respect and remember with pride the sacrifices of those 40 thousand to 50 thousand brave souls. They are the heroes, not the lying, depraved and deceitful individuals who exaggerate the numbers for their selfish ends.
- AR
From: "Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 9 July 2014, 1:42
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona]
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 9 July 2014, 1:42
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona]
"The Bengalis never surrendered." True! But there were at least three kinds of Bengalis. 1) People whose sense of self-respect, honor, dignity and humanity was greater than their sense of being part of a bigger 'Muslim' country. Those Muslims fought for independence. 2) People whose non-sense of the 'Muslim Ummah' overwhelmed their sense of self-respect, honor, dignity and humanity. Those Muslims did all kinds of heinous crimes to uphold their 'Muslim Ummah'. 3) Innocent and politically inactive Hindus whose only viable option for survival was to migrate to India.
Due to the nonviolent (some people would call it "cowardly") nature of the Hindus, the number of Hindu freedom fighters were negligible compared to the scale of atrocities that the Hindus were facing.
I am quite convinced that without India being a big land mass between the two parts of Pakistan, and without India helping Bangladesh, there would not be a Bangladesh today. The Pakistani military, along with the second category of Muslims that I mentioned above, would have prevailed. That is the honest statement of the reality; never mind the emotion of truly appreciating the bravery of a lot of the first category Muslims.
Sukhamaya Bain
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On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 6:10 PM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Situation never became normal. An uneasy situation prevailed all along. Killings, rape and arson continued. People went out but were never sure that they would come back safe. Guerrilla operations and gun battles were happening on daily basis. Any one who was inside the country knew it.
Two and a half cubit-long bamboo stick is not a myth. What else could they do? It took time to get organized. Many of those who had bamboo sticks in their hands subsequently had grenades or fire arms in their hands. But the Bengalis never surrendered.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 6, 2014, at 10:19 PM, "Kamal Das kamalctgu@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Dr. Roy is getting inattentive lately. The army crackdown occurred in the night of 25th March, two days later than his mentioned date. Pakistani army faced resistance as much that could be offered by bamboo sticks two and half cubits long.
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 6, 2014, at 10:29 PM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Obviously, Chakraborty did not understand my statement. I did not say Pakistani Army did not face any confrontation; I said Pakistani Army did not face enormous confrontation while marching through East Pakistan. That's the fact.I was there when Pakistani Soldiers entered Bogra Town; I was also there when they entered Natore Town. I saw how much confrontation they faced in both cases. They just moved into these town and setup camps. As they were coming towards these towns, they were setting fires on houses of poor villagers alongside the highways leading to these towns. We were following their advancement by looking at smokes on the sky. Right after entering these towns, they unleashed mayhem on Hindus. At that point, they were only targeting Awami-Leaderships in the locality.Chakraborty also did not understand my statement about running the country under Army control. I did not say running the country smoothly from the very first day. The fact is – most of those 9 months country was running normally. School, college, court system, government offices, business, etc. reopened. Even Dhaka University, where liberation struggle started, reopened.After spending 9 months in the refugee camp, when I started to attend my classes in Dhaka University, my classmates told me that - they have already gone through those courses once, and they were revising them again with us. I was so unhappy that I was attending them for the first time while they were given the same lessons twice. I was thinking – how am I going to compete with them after being out of touch with my studies for 9 months? This appeared to me very unfair. They also told me everything attained some sort of normalcy in a few months after the Army crackdown on 23 March.I am sure Chakraborty had the same experiences. Hope this will clarify his misunderstanding.Jiten RoyOn Sunday, July 6, 2014 10:25 AM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Das's first sentence is good and will encourage a healthy debate. The second sentence reflects Das's mindset that it is only he who comprehends history perfectly well. Whatever I have written is based on articles written by competent authors. I believe instead of trying to shut one's mouth, the debate should be taken to a higher level. We need to remember that BKSAL was created in 1975 while Mujib had been in the bad book of the countries that directly or indirectly acted against Bangladesh's liberation.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 5, 2014, at 6:43 AM, "Kamal Das kamalctgu@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Bhutto was punished for land reform, and Shaikh was for political reforms and formation of BKSAL. If you don't comprehend history, don't concoct it.
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 5, 2014, at 1:49 AM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Red carpet welcome given to Bhutto is often seen as an insult to our great liberation war. After all Bhutto was a villain. Interestingly both Bhutto and Mujib were punished for the 'crime' of splitting Pakistan into two. While Bhutto was executed by the Pakistan army itself, Mujib was executed by 'an extension' of it.
It is also noteworthy that both Mujib and Bhutto with great promises brought an end to actual and virtual army rules in Pakistan. While Bhutto quickly surrendered to evil forces like Islamists, Mujib did not. But Mujib was struggling to do some thing good to the economy devastated by the war. One strategy he followed was to get support from countries not friendly to Soviet Union. Despite opposition from within he attended the Islamic Conference in Lahore.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 1, 2014, at 12:29 AM, "Kamal Das kamalctgu@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Three million debate ain't over. After assertion of such casualty, a red carpet welcome was given to Bhutto. Nine months of liberation war could not have a comparative casualty of twenty year long Vietnam War.
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 30, 2014, at 9:36 PM, "Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:I do not see any connection between going after criminal bastards and three millions deaths. Even thirty thousands would be too many. Why the numbers are so important when we do not even know the exact numbers of Razakars of that time? The deaths could be even more than three millions? Why that is not a possibility considering us being the champions of inaccuracy and impreciseness? I think three millions debate is over. Lets stick to the number and move on.-SD"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
-SeussOn Monday, June 30, 2014 3:48 AM, "ANISUR RAHMAN anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Mr Mannan,Your endeavour to expose those "jaroj" or 'bastard' people in Bangladesh is admirable and I hope that you succeed. I am with you. But my request would be that whatever you say should be based on facts - pure and undiluted, not heresy or gossip. If you resort to massaging facts, however small, to make the case stronger, then people will reject the whole story and think that this story is one of "those".
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Posted by: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
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