Typical Q Rahman response -- dumbing down BIG issues like secularism. I have reminded everyone many times that it is not a matter of personal opinion of who thinks what about this subject. It is a constitutional issue. And as such, there is not only NO binary opposition between religion and secularism, SECULARISM is a friend of religion, because constitutionally it gurantees equal freedom of religion to every citizen (that includes atheists too).
There is also certain historical facts regarding Bengal and its colonisation by the Brits. So it was in the interest of the Brit. admin to introduce a fake, made-for-the-moment anti-religion secularism to India. [Our S A Hannan is very fond of foot-licking the British propaganda of fake secularism]. They themselves never believed in it. There was a hidden agenda of Christian evengelicalism in all the British proclamations that were meant to denigrate both Islam and Hinduism, esp. T B Macaulay's Minutes on Indian Education, 1835.
About American hidden agenda of supporting Islamic fundamentalism all over the world, I am really dumbfounded at your level of ignorance of world news and ever-developing global politics. What do you read? Or don't you follow the world news at all? I hate to be the leader of the search party for rescuing you from the morass of ignorance. I am envious of you. It must be very cosy not to have to tax your brain too much trying follow the goings on in the world.
Perhaps you can't even recall the U S financial and military support of Pakistan in 1971 war of aggression against the independence seekers of East Pakistan.
I will post my article on madrassahs in Bangladesh and the World Bank's overt support of its proliferation.
Jamaat is an illegal political party. Period. Its smallness is a delusion. Jamaat has always had huge money-power. More on that later.
Farida Majid
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
From: qrahman@netscape.net
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 08:07:57 -0500
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona]: Prof Talukdar Moniruzzaman on transit
__._,_.___
[Disclaimer: ALOCHONA Management is not liable for information contained in this message. The author takes full responsibility.]
To unsubscribe/subscribe, send request to alochona-owner@egroups.com
__,_._,___
There is also certain historical facts regarding Bengal and its colonisation by the Brits. So it was in the interest of the Brit. admin to introduce a fake, made-for-the-moment anti-religion secularism to India. [Our S A Hannan is very fond of foot-licking the British propaganda of fake secularism]. They themselves never believed in it. There was a hidden agenda of Christian evengelicalism in all the British proclamations that were meant to denigrate both Islam and Hinduism, esp. T B Macaulay's Minutes on Indian Education, 1835.
About American hidden agenda of supporting Islamic fundamentalism all over the world, I am really dumbfounded at your level of ignorance of world news and ever-developing global politics. What do you read? Or don't you follow the world news at all? I hate to be the leader of the search party for rescuing you from the morass of ignorance. I am envious of you. It must be very cosy not to have to tax your brain too much trying follow the goings on in the world.
Perhaps you can't even recall the U S financial and military support of Pakistan in 1971 war of aggression against the independence seekers of East Pakistan.
I will post my article on madrassahs in Bangladesh and the World Bank's overt support of its proliferation.
Jamaat is an illegal political party. Period. Its smallness is a delusion. Jamaat has always had huge money-power. More on that later.
Farida Majid
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
From: qrahman@netscape.net
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 08:07:57 -0500
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona]: Prof Talukdar Moniruzzaman on transit
I think you made some good points. For example hate towards every Pakistani forever (Or hate towards every Indian forever!) is not fair or smart. We should judge people by their actions and if anyone makes a positive contribution towards our country or community, we should encourage it.
Many Pakistanis and Indians (The smart ones) slowly but surely realized eternal wars between them benefits no one but those who sell arms to them.
People like him (and the foiled-military-coup-attempt bunch) are quite successful in convincing the US policy makers that a madrassah-only education system, hijabizing women, Islami banking etc. will keep Bangladesh a pro-USA country, and from being taken over by a communist conspiracy.
>>>>>>>> Jamaat-e-islami party is a smaller political party in Bangladesh. I think opinions like this makes them more important than they really are.
If you feel Jammat-e-Islami is "Spreading lies", please provide proof against it. People can sort truth out of it. It may take some time but I am for peaceful ways to settle our differences no matter it is communist party or religious parties.
As I discussed earlier that, concept of "Secularism" means different things to different people. Even when communists used to run west Bengal for decades, they used to sponsor/promote biggest "Puja Mondops" during "Durga puja". That is NOT exactly a secular position but a very realistic position. No matter what political party rules a country, they HAVE to reflect wishes of the masses.
For example, USA has a clear separation between "Church and state" (At least in the books!). It ALSO guarantees that peaceful citizens can practice any religion they wish to. State will even protect that right, if it needs that protection. Bangladesh need NOT to blindly follow USA but surely it can take the "Best practices" from a mature democracy like the USA (Yeah we can live without unnecessary wars, supporting occupation and invading countries).
Lastly I wholeheartedly agree that, blind supporters ONLY weakens political parties NEVER helps them. We should learn from history. We need open minded, educated, logical and brave people to get involved with politics. The ever a$$ kissing "Yes-boss" branded idiots are nothing more than parasites which often killed the very tree it lives on.
-----Original Message-----
From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>; mohiuddin <mohiuddin@netzero.net>; aanis06 <aanis06@yahoo.com>; anis.ahmed <anis.ahmed@netzero.net>; srbanunz <srbanunz@gmail.com>; captchowdhury <captchowdhury@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:37 am
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona]: Prof Talukdar Moniruzzaman on transit
Many Pakistanis and Indians (The smart ones) slowly but surely realized eternal wars between them benefits no one but those who sell arms to them.
People like him (and the foiled-military-coup-attempt bunch) are quite successful in convincing the US policy makers that a madrassah-only education system, hijabizing women, Islami banking etc. will keep Bangladesh a pro-USA country, and from being taken over by a communist conspiracy.
>>>>>>>> In every press conference and talks I saw representitive from state dept supporting non-religious initiatives. I do not know where you got this idea from but kindly expand on it. I must have missed the whole US aided madrassa program all the way!!
In this forum I said madrassa education should be updated and modernized (Adding science, health care, politics, English, computer education to existing one). I don't think we ought to reject religion based education all the way but to offer a better religious education system makes a lot of sense. Our education minister recently said that as well. West Bengal took similar initiative and so far gotten good feedback from it. It would be WRONG to make people pick either or (Between religious or secular).
The idea of a secular Bangladesh is an anti-Islamic evil idea, and so the Kingdom of Jahiliya (otherwise known as Saudi Arabia) has requested USA to see that Bangladesh never achieves its 1971 dream of a declared secular nation. A secular Bangladesh is a dangerous model to uphold to the rest of the Arab world clambering for democracy.
>>>>>>>>> Last time I checked, Bangladesh is STILL a democratic country NOT an Islamic republic. Don't think we have to pick this battle.
Please reflect upon these important points and consider how best you can counter the lies of Jamaat given the current political crisis that is leaning in their favor.
In this forum I said madrassa education should be updated and modernized (Adding science, health care, politics, English, computer education to existing one). I don't think we ought to reject religion based education all the way but to offer a better religious education system makes a lot of sense. Our education minister recently said that as well. West Bengal took similar initiative and so far gotten good feedback from it. It would be WRONG to make people pick either or (Between religious or secular).
The idea of a secular Bangladesh is an anti-Islamic evil idea, and so the Kingdom of Jahiliya (otherwise known as Saudi Arabia) has requested USA to see that Bangladesh never achieves its 1971 dream of a declared secular nation. A secular Bangladesh is a dangerous model to uphold to the rest of the Arab world clambering for democracy.
>>>>>>>>> Last time I checked, Bangladesh is STILL a democratic country NOT an Islamic republic. Don't think we have to pick this battle.
Please reflect upon these important points and consider how best you can counter the lies of Jamaat given the current political crisis that is leaning in their favor.
>>>>>>>> Jamaat-e-islami party is a smaller political party in Bangladesh. I think opinions like this makes them more important than they really are.
If you feel Jammat-e-Islami is "Spreading lies", please provide proof against it. People can sort truth out of it. It may take some time but I am for peaceful ways to settle our differences no matter it is communist party or religious parties.
As I discussed earlier that, concept of "Secularism" means different things to different people. Even when communists used to run west Bengal for decades, they used to sponsor/promote biggest "Puja Mondops" during "Durga puja". That is NOT exactly a secular position but a very realistic position. No matter what political party rules a country, they HAVE to reflect wishes of the masses.
For example, USA has a clear separation between "Church and state" (At least in the books!). It ALSO guarantees that peaceful citizens can practice any religion they wish to. State will even protect that right, if it needs that protection. Bangladesh need NOT to blindly follow USA but surely it can take the "Best practices" from a mature democracy like the USA (Yeah we can live without unnecessary wars, supporting occupation and invading countries).
Lastly I wholeheartedly agree that, blind supporters ONLY weakens political parties NEVER helps them. We should learn from history. We need open minded, educated, logical and brave people to get involved with politics. The ever a$$ kissing "Yes-boss" branded idiots are nothing more than parasites which often killed the very tree it lives on.
-----Original Message-----
From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>; mohiuddin <mohiuddin@netzero.net>; aanis06 <aanis06@yahoo.com>; anis.ahmed <anis.ahmed@netzero.net>; srbanunz <srbanunz@gmail.com>; captchowdhury <captchowdhury@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Thu, Feb 9, 2012 7:37 am
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona]: Prof Talukdar Moniruzzaman on transit
It no longer makes sense to just to shout at people like Talukdar Moniruzzaman, and calling them PAKI. If you cannot manage to be a little more intelligent than the hukka-hua anti-India communal squad then it is better not to emulate their style. At least those foxes are not as 'outdated' as Dr. Manik.
Even the ordinary street Pakistanis are a bit more kindlier towards India these days than our Jamaat-inspired bros & sis. Pakistani intellectuals are openly secular and are speaking out for establishing secularism in Pakistan. Awami League cowards, including Sheikh Hasina, should take lessons of bold secularism from them. I personally do not know of any Pakistani writer or political analyst who does not express regrets, and speak with enormous sympathy for "East Pakistan" whenever the topic of 1971 war is raised. Hasn't anyone noticed that our 'razakar' intellectuals (S A Hannan, S A Halim, et al) do not like Pakistani writers and reputed journalists anymore?
Talukdar M. has been the greatest admirer of Golam Azam amongst all the intellectuals of Bangladesh and has been spreading the Jamaati 2-nation theory of a Muslim Bangladesh vs. Hindu India everywhere. The reason he is a big menace is that his biggest audience is the USA govt.'s State Dept. I feel like vomiting whenever I read his writing full of fraudulent claims, distorted facts and plain old lies.
People like him (and the foiled-military-coup-attempt bunch) are quite successful in convincing the US policy makers that a madrassah-only education system, hijabizing women, Islami banking etc. will keep Bangladesh a pro-USA country, and from being taken over by a communist conspiracy. The era of the Cold War is still alive in the US foreign policy minds as far as Bangladesh is concerned. The idea of a secular Bangladesh is an anti-Islamic evil idea, and so the Kingdom of Jahiliya (otherwise known as Saudi Arabia) has requested USA to see that Bangladesh never achieves its 1971 dream of a declared secular nation. A secular Bangladesh is a dangerous model to uphold to the rest of the Arab world clambering for democracy.
We have NO lobbyist for the cause of secular Bangladesh at the State Dept. in Washington, D C.
Jamal Hasan thinks Islam is the root of all evil, so he is allied with anti-Islamic fundamentalist groups. That's very nice, except that it re-confirms the lies that Jamaat is spreading, i. e. secularism is anti-Islam.
Dr. Nurannabi is a supporter of War Crimes Tribunal for crimes committed in 1971. That's very nice, except that it hardens the resolve of the USA not to expose the details of a war which it supported militarily, financially and politically.
Dr. Manik is a blind supporter of Awami League which he believes that it believes in secularism. That's very nice, except that we know that AL is not secular, and yet USA policy-makers have been bought by money to believe that AL is an anti-Islamic political party.
Please reflect upon these important points and consider how best you can counter the lies of Jamaat given the current political crisis that is leaning in their favor.
Farida Majid
To: mohiuddin@netzero.net; aanis06@yahoo.com; anis.ahmed@netzero.net; ovimot@yahoogroups.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; chottala@yahoogroups.com; dahuk@yahoogroups.com; srbanunz@gmail.com; captchowdhury@yahoo.ca
From: man1k195709@yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 11:57:20 -0800
Subject: [mukto-mona] Re: [Dahuk]: Prof Talukdar Moniruzzaman on transit
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Isha Khan <bdmailer@gmail.com>
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: [Dahuk]: Prof Talukdar Moniruzzaman on transit
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 11:21:03 +0600
____________________________________________________________
Groupon™ Official Site
1 ridiculously huge coupon a day. Get 50-90% off your city's best!
Groupon.com
Even the ordinary street Pakistanis are a bit more kindlier towards India these days than our Jamaat-inspired bros & sis. Pakistani intellectuals are openly secular and are speaking out for establishing secularism in Pakistan. Awami League cowards, including Sheikh Hasina, should take lessons of bold secularism from them. I personally do not know of any Pakistani writer or political analyst who does not express regrets, and speak with enormous sympathy for "East Pakistan" whenever the topic of 1971 war is raised. Hasn't anyone noticed that our 'razakar' intellectuals (S A Hannan, S A Halim, et al) do not like Pakistani writers and reputed journalists anymore?
Talukdar M. has been the greatest admirer of Golam Azam amongst all the intellectuals of Bangladesh and has been spreading the Jamaati 2-nation theory of a Muslim Bangladesh vs. Hindu India everywhere. The reason he is a big menace is that his biggest audience is the USA govt.'s State Dept. I feel like vomiting whenever I read his writing full of fraudulent claims, distorted facts and plain old lies.
People like him (and the foiled-military-coup-attempt bunch) are quite successful in convincing the US policy makers that a madrassah-only education system, hijabizing women, Islami banking etc. will keep Bangladesh a pro-USA country, and from being taken over by a communist conspiracy. The era of the Cold War is still alive in the US foreign policy minds as far as Bangladesh is concerned. The idea of a secular Bangladesh is an anti-Islamic evil idea, and so the Kingdom of Jahiliya (otherwise known as Saudi Arabia) has requested USA to see that Bangladesh never achieves its 1971 dream of a declared secular nation. A secular Bangladesh is a dangerous model to uphold to the rest of the Arab world clambering for democracy.
We have NO lobbyist for the cause of secular Bangladesh at the State Dept. in Washington, D C.
Jamal Hasan thinks Islam is the root of all evil, so he is allied with anti-Islamic fundamentalist groups. That's very nice, except that it re-confirms the lies that Jamaat is spreading, i. e. secularism is anti-Islam.
Dr. Nurannabi is a supporter of War Crimes Tribunal for crimes committed in 1971. That's very nice, except that it hardens the resolve of the USA not to expose the details of a war which it supported militarily, financially and politically.
Dr. Manik is a blind supporter of Awami League which he believes that it believes in secularism. That's very nice, except that we know that AL is not secular, and yet USA policy-makers have been bought by money to believe that AL is an anti-Islamic political party.
Please reflect upon these important points and consider how best you can counter the lies of Jamaat given the current political crisis that is leaning in their favor.
Farida Majid
To: mohiuddin@netzero.net; aanis06@yahoo.com; anis.ahmed@netzero.net; ovimot@yahoogroups.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; chottala@yahoogroups.com; dahuk@yahoogroups.com; srbanunz@gmail.com; captchowdhury@yahoo.ca
From: man1k195709@yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 11:57:20 -0800
Subject: [mukto-mona] Re: [Dahuk]: Prof Talukdar Moniruzzaman on transit
Another ISI-Paki agents article from "Daily Pakdiganta" !!
You will be able to read this type of article in "PAKZAMIN" and "PAKISTAN AMARDESH" news papers !!
From: Mohiuddin Anwar <mohiuddin@netzero.net>
To: manik195709@yahoo.com; aanis06@yahoo.com; anis.ahmed@netzero.net; ovimot@yahoogroups.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; chottala@yahoogroups.com; dahuk@yahoogroups.com; srbanunz@gmail.com; captchowdhury@yahoo.ca
Sent: Tuesday, February 7, 2012 11:57 AM
Subject: Fw: [Dahuk]: Prof Talukdar Moniruzzaman on transit
To: manik195709@yahoo.com; aanis06@yahoo.com; anis.ahmed@netzero.net; ovimot@yahoogroups.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; chottala@yahoogroups.com; dahuk@yahoogroups.com; srbanunz@gmail.com; captchowdhury@yahoo.ca
Sent: Tuesday, February 7, 2012 11:57 AM
Subject: Fw: [Dahuk]: Prof Talukdar Moniruzzaman on transit
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
From: Isha Khan <bdmailer@gmail.com>
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: [Dahuk]: Prof Talukdar Moniruzzaman on transit
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 11:21:03 +0600
____________________________________________________________
Groupon™ Official Site
1 ridiculously huge coupon a day. Get 50-90% off your city's best!
Groupon.com
__._,_.___
[Disclaimer: ALOCHONA Management is not liable for information contained in this message. The author takes full responsibility.]
To unsubscribe/subscribe, send request to alochona-owner@egroups.com
Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
__,_._,___