Even if I wait until science finds answers to all those questions, I asked before, where the incentive for sacrifice in life will come from, if all deeds end here as we die? What's the difference between a good and a bad deed, if there is no Karma? The logic will soon turn into insanity. Jiten Roy
--- On Mon, 2/27/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Conversion to and from Hinduism
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, February 27, 2012, 6:54 PM
Let me comment on the posts below by Dr. Jiten Roy and Mr. Q. A. Rahman. First on Dr. Roy's comments: Our knowledge is limited, lack thereof is unlimited. So, I would say, Dr. Roy has some thought provoking questions, for which I do not have definitive answers. However, that does not mean that God, re-birth and virtue/karma in various lives are the answers. Of course, when we can not comprehend, it is easy to give up, and explain it with the irrationality of the concept of supernatural powers. It is much more difficult to explore with patience to find out. If we look at the progress of human civilization, we can see that some of the old supernatural kinds of mysteries are no longer mysteries. Just imagine, for example, when people did not know that air was a matter, they used to consider it as a god and pray to it (or to God's expression in the form of air). For another example, even in today's world, some people pray for rain when there is a drought; of course, the technology-based irrigation works better than the prayers. We need to realize that it may take too many generations of human intelligence to unravel just one mystery; and some mysteries could remain unsolved even on the day when Earth is destroyed (by natural phenomena according to the rationalists). Having said the above, let me make two generalizations. While some exceptionally remarkable discoveries may take place here and there by accidents, most of the unraveling of mysteries and solutions to problems are accomplished via systematic studies. While some remarkably brilliant individuals may come from poor environments, most of the talents do come from the environments of talents. Now, on Mr. Rahman's comments: Talking about the race factor, I have a CD of Shyama Sangeets, where I like the tunes of some of the songs. When I hear one particular song, I think, what kind of a deprave is this devotee? It goes like, "tui kali mekhe, jyoti dheke, parbi ne ma faki dite ……" (by covering your glow with black ink, mother, you can not deceive me). The idea is, "even when you disguise yourself as black, I still recognize you, and am fond of you." Now, Syama (Kali) is supposed to be actually black according to the Hindu belief. However, this devotee is praying to this god of his as if she is actually white, just disguising as black. In other words, he has to imagine the black god to be white while praying to her! Black can not be prayed to, even when she is the revered motherly god!! Now, I am not suggesting that most devotees are like that when it comes to the goddess Kali. But, there is no doubt that for the religious and backward sections of the Hindus, white is clearly more desirable and revered than black. As for Mr. Rahman liking the "wisdom of many Hindu scholars", I would say, that probably is because Hinduism, whether religion or philosophy, is not too prescriptive, and many of the so-called scholars are not up to following exactly what was written in the religious books in ancient times. Well that's all for now, ========================================= From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Conversion to and from Hinduism
Yes, the so called upper caste Hindus has exploited Shree-Krishna-logic for Millennia, and they are still doing it today in some parts of the Indian subcontinent. It could mean totally different things. In one of my previous posts, I asked for an explanation as to why some children are born with silver-spoon in mouth - while others starts suffering right from the moment they are born. You may say it's a statistical probability, but that answer does not satisfy me. Here is another question – why some people are extraordinarily brilliant (or skilled) in something, while others cannot understand (or do) simple things. It can't be the gene, because we can find brilliant people coming from illiterate parents; it can't be the environment, because we can see this difference within the same environment; it can't be the opportunity, because we can find this difference within the same family. Then, what? Jiten Roy =========================================== From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Conversion to and from Hinduism
(SBain) Talking about conversion to Hinduism, I have wondered, who gets converted to what caste? Who in the world would be interested in getting converted to a Shudra or Chandal? The way I see the attitudes of the powerful Hindus, they would not take the average Muslim or black African for anything better than a Shudra or Chandal. Of course the Hindu leaders have been keen on licking the boots of the Nawabs and the white Europeans. They would not dare converting them to anything less than Brahmin or Kshatitrya. But, why in the world would the average Nawab/British demote himself from kicking the butts of the Hindus to be equal to the Hindus?
>>>>>>>>>> I think beside the economic and power working as "Factors" to this issue, RACE is another factor as well. In most parts of India (Certainly all of Bengal) I have not seen any idol that had "Dark skinned" men or women (Like Durga, Saraswati, etc). They are all very "White" and ironically "Ashur" (Beaten by Durga) is often dark skinned.
I think unconsciously Brahmins had lesser problem in accepting fair skinned Muslims and British raj as their masters. Albeit "Muslim" rule was often an issue but did not become so important until the British wanted to divide us (TO rule our forefathers!!) by sewing hatred between these communities.
My guess is (Pardon me if I am crossing a line here) most Brahmins will have easier time accepting a Muslim like (Saif Ali Khan--white looking) as their masters than accepting Ravon looking lower caste Hindu as their master.
Gandhi (Despite his many limitations) tried very hard to break this racist cycle (Against lower caste Hindus and Muslims) but had to give his life for this mission.
Hinduism has many good teachings in it. Specially I like the wisdom of many Hindu scholars are uplifting. But thousands of years ago the Brahmins came from a different land TO India and put themselves as the "Top dog" of the social and religious ladder.
This is MY OPINIONS only based on observations. So if there are any mistakes, feel free to correct it.
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