>>>>>>>>>> I don't think religion based hatred is confined to Muslims only. I think it is everywhere and it is codified in Hindu religion/tradition. So ALL of us have to work hard for a better tomorrow.
I have seen too many academically qualified Bangladeshi Muslims who callously asked me, "Where in West Bengal are you from?" My fault was that my name was in purely Bangla words, and that I spoke Bangla like an educated person, as opposed to like an illiterate person, which is how too many academically qualified Bangladeshis talk.
>>>>>>>>> 
I am sure you understand how people feel about that. After so much sacrifice during 1971 to protect our "Bengali" identity, we (Muslim Bengalis) often have to "Prove" our identity. But ignorance causes problem all over the world.
Religion-based division, hatred and discrimination are too deep in them. I would recommend them to unite with India only after they have gone through some serious re-education.
>>>>>>>>>> Well if most people in this country want to "Re-unite" with India, it may happen but I don't think it will happen anytime soon. Our history of oppression and condition of Muslims in India will make such initiative not very popular. if India fundamentally improves condition of it's minority population, Muslims may think about it. Right now India is not popular among majority of this country.
Only by being engaged can India influence life in Bangladesh. Through a good relationship, India could help improve inter-religion relationships within Bangladesh, which would be the key for an India-friendly Bangladesh.
>>>>>>>>>>> Agreed. I do not think we are going to re-unite anytime soon for many reasons. But having a good trusting relationship is possible and it will help all people in this region. [ Personal opinion]
Shalom!!
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jun 11, 2012 3:17 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Akhanda Bharat and South Asian Union are Wishful Thoughts
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2012 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Akhanda Bharat and South Asian Union are Wishful Thoughts
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] Akhanda Bharat and South Asian Union are Wishful Thoughts
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, June 9, 2012, 7:51 PM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2012 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] 'ঢাকার সায় ছাড়া টিপাইমুখে বাঁধ হবে না' !!!!!
From: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] 'ঢাকার সায় ছাড়া টিপাইমুখে বাঁধ হবে না' !!!!!
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "qrahman@netscape.net" <qrahman@netscape.net>, "jnrsr53@yahoo.com" <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>, "Sukhamaya Bain" <subain1@yahoo.com>, "Alochona Group" <alochona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, June 9, 2012, 9:43 AM
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Monday, June 11, 2012
Re: [mukto-mona] Akhanda Bharat and South Asian Union are Wishful Thoughts
In that respect, people who call themselves Muslims need to work much harder than any other religious group; the history of East Bengal over the last 65 years is a testament to that.
-----Original Message-----
Demographic invasion of India by Bangladeshis would be quite likely if Bangladesh goes mostly under the rising water. That would be involuntary on the parts of both the countries; Bangladeshis having nowhere to go, and India being forced to take people in because of a humanitarian crisis.
For that kind of a crisis, as well as for better times, life in the region would be much more tolerable if people could get rid of their religion-based hatred. In that respect, people who call themselves Muslims need to work much harder than any other religious group; the history of East Bengal over the last 65 years is a testament to that.
I have seen too many academically qualified Bangladeshi Muslims who callously asked me, "Where in West Bengal are you from?" My fault was that my name was in purely Bangla words, and that I spoke Bangla like an educated person, as opposed to like an illiterate person, which is how too many academically qualified Bangladeshis talk. Religion-based division, hatred and discrimination are too deep in them. I would recommend them to unite with India only after they have gone through some serious re-education.
In any case, I think it is too wrong to suggest that a good relationship with Bangladesh would not help India. I think a good relationship between Bangladesh and India would help both the countries. Only by being engaged can India influence life in Bangladesh. Through a good relationship, India could help improve inter-religion relationships within Bangladesh, which would be the key for an India-friendly Bangladesh.
Sukhamaya Bain
===================================================
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
I do not know about the western front, but - I see a very real possibility of merger in the eastern front.
Population was less than 50 million in 1971, now it is 150 million after 40 years. What will happen in another 40 years?
The ecological change in Bangladesh is scary. I have seen flood-water in our home during many rainy-seasons. We couldn't go from one room to another without a boat during those times. Now, no such water can be found anywhere during the rainy-season.
Also, the ocean is rising in the south, and the southern-belt will probably go under the ocean in 40 years. Where will all these people go?
Even right now, people are desperate to cross the border, and so many are dying during border intrusion. Yet, intrusion continues. All these tell me that there will be a demographic invasion in the West Bengal in not so distant future.
Jiten Roy ---
=============================
On Sat, 6/9/12, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
Here comes the title changer! Sorry, to people who do not like changing titles. I think the following discussion would fit the new title better.
First let me say that I totally disagree with Dr. Roy when he writes, "....a good relationship with Bangladesh is not going to help them (India)."
Secondly, I somewhat disagree with Mr. Deeldar on his thoughts on the European Union. I totally agree with him on his thoughts on our subcontinent.
Now focusing on our subcontinent, let me put forth my thoughts on who wants and talks about a United India (Akhanda Bharat) that would include Bangladesh, India and Pakistan.
People whose families got separated and uprooted by the partition of 1947:
Some of these people would like a United India. However, the realists among this group know that a United India is a fantasy, probably never to be fulfilled. Some in this group, who care about the bigger picture, as opposed to just about themselves, do not want it at all; because they know that such a move would spoil the big middle part of the subcontinent, which has maintained a good deal of sanity, in spite of all the valid criticisms that can be made against that part.
Islamic and Muslim brotherhood fanatics:
Most in this group do not want a united India. A small fraction of this group dreams of an ultimate Islamic paradise in the subcontinent, and they probably want a United India via something like a South Asian Union. Some in this group talk about 'Akahanda Bharat' to maintain and create some anti-India paranoia in Bangladesh and Pakistan.
Hindu fanatics of India:
They do not like Muslims, and do not want a union with almost a third of a billion Muslims of Pakistan and Bangladesh. A very small fraction of this group, which does not really know what they are thinking, wants a United India.
Innocent fools of the subcontinent:
They do not know that they are thinking, and want a union, at least in the form of a South Asian Union.
Decent and smart people of the subcontinent:
They are realists and know that a United India is a fantasy, at least for the foreseeable future. This group probably just wants improvements in the citizenship and human rights everywhere, without which good relations between the three countries of the subcontinent are impossible. They know the problems in all three countries, and they can see the differences between the three countries. They are fully aware of the fact that Pakistan is too much into the ditch when it comes to human and citizenship rights, and that a union with that entity is a losing proposition for the subcontinent. They also realize that visa-free travel between the three countries would be harmful for the subcontinent overall.
At a personal level, of course, it would be so convenient if I could visit all these three countries with no visa. But I would not support a policy like that in the subcontinent until I see a remarkable drop in religious and sectarian fanaticisms, which might take a quite a few hundred years to accomplish.
Well, more later.
Sukhamaya Bain
=============================================================
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>"India does not want to open the gate because it will be totally overwhelmed by Muslims and drag it down to create another disaster. Sorry to say that Islam and modernity is not a not good mix. Some idiots are more concern about the religion than their material and educational progress."
These are excellent observations. I totally agree that most religious people do waste all their potential to conform to something that has so little to do with this world, and, in that sense, you are right about those people being mostly useless.
Which country in the world, in their right mind, will want more of those useless people? This may be the obstacle in the relationship between Bangladesh and India. India is strugling to contain religious communality in their own land, and a good relationship with Bangladesh is not going to help them.
I also believe that economic progress in the Indian subcontinent has been slow mainly due to the presence of so many of such useless 'idiots.' The good news is – their number is declining as more and more people are waking up, and that may be correlated with the recent uptick on the rate of progress in this region.
Jiten Roy
========================================
--- On Sat, 6/9/12, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
"In 21st century when European countries are coming together and helping each other"
That is a mere fantasy, brother. The reality has already set in and some scoundrel-countries will be thrown out from the union for having no concept of managing their own houses. The union is an artificial one and it might see its own death in few years time.
The elephant in the room of Indo-Pak-Bangladesh relation is the religion. There is no way to go back to the days of harmony that used to exist in the early 20th century. India does not want to open the gate because it will be totally overwhelmed by Muslims and drag it down to create another disaster. Sorry to say that Islam and modernity is not a not good mix. Some idiots are more concern about the religion than their material and educational progress. With such mentality, a country has no where to go but down hill. While Pakistan is a history, Bangladesh could be the next if politicians do not see the writings on the wall. Srilanka, Nepal and Myanmar will be fine because they are more secular than Pakistan and Bangladesh and Indians are having almost an open border policies with those countries (except Mynamar but that might change).
-SD
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
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