Re: [mukto-mona] Condemning Mumbai Violence

A great piece indeed. Thanks Sukhamaya babu. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 13, 2012, at 6:13 PM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:

 

I am unclear as to how the following exchanges between Dr. Roy and Mr. Chakrabarty are related to the Mumbai violence on the media people.

 

The way I see the problem in Mumbai, some criminal elements within the protesting group caused the violence. There is no need to point at their religion; they just need to be punished, as the petitioners below have demanded. Religion teaching violence or not, some people in lawless societies like in India, Bangladesh and Myanmar do have a tendency to get violent. Buddhism is nonviolent, yet members of that religion acted violently against the Rohinga Muslims in Myanmar.

 

As for the exchanges below, let me make two points.

 

I do tell my people that I do not have any faith in the silliness of the religions. Most of my immediate family members are not religious, and they tell me that they do some of the rituals just to go with the flow in the society. However, I do not shy away from telling my more religious family members and neighbors that I do not follow any religion. When I contribute money to the traditional Bain Family Durga Puja, I tell clearly that I do it for the people at my rural family home in Bangladesh to have some fun, not for any religious belief.

 

For religious hatred, I would blame people more than religions. People need to ignore and discard the hatred that can be found in most of the religions. Religions would have no power if people did not follow them. I see a lot of selective praises for religions by both religious and religion-appeasing people. If they can do that, I am sure they can at least do some selective ignoring (not following), if not outright condemning, of religions for the good of all humanity. In fact, I think a lot of the good people who call themselves Muslims and Hindus do actually ignore (not follow) a lot of the hateful aspects of their respective religions.

 

Sukhamaya Bain

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From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Condemning Mumbai Violence

 

You said: " They are not stupid; they will decide on their religious belief--there is nothing to impose on them. Experiments with forcefully abolishing religion did not work well.   Who is trying to impose anything on anyone? I am not a preacher; I have no intention to implement any of my views on anyone. My goal is to express my mind; that's all. No one needs to accept or follow anything I say. Can I do that, without a challenge thrown at me?   You said, religious people are not 'stupid'. I agree. Then, don't try to be their spokesperson? Let them speak for them. When an atheist starts to advocate views of a religious person, it sounds like - 'Bhuter Mukhae Ram-Nam (i.e., Ram-nam from the mouth of a ghost).   Jiten Roy   --- On Sun, 8/12/12, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote: From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Condemning Mumbai Violence To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, August 12, 2012, 10:17 PM   I am not inconsistent. Many a time I have said that religion, a man made prouct, is the opiate of the masses. But I am not an extremist. Personally I do not need it, but I try to understand why believers need it and if it is taken away from them how they would be affected. Showing off is one thing and caring about your fellow people is a different thing. We cannot do it sitting in an ivory tower. If you want to try it you will simply be rejected. So you have to go slow if you really want them to be with you. Do not hurt their feelings too hard. They are not stupid; they will decide on their religious belief--there is nothing to impose on them. Experiments with forcefully abolishing religion did not work well. That was my point and if you think carefully you will see no inconsistency. Keep preaching atheism, I have no problem with that. My request was not to ignore the "people" part.  I put you into a little challenge. Try to implement your atheism idea in your small community, family or an extended family. See what happens. You have sidetracked my challenge. Your comment on the same is still awaited.    From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 8:32 PM Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Condemning Mumbai Violence   Subimal: Why do you selectively overlook what I have said?   Do you know why I overlook most of your comments? It's because they are inconsistent, in my view.   Here is why. You are accusing me of criticizing religion from the ivory tower, and at the same time you are claiming that - you are an atheist. Whenever I criticize religion, you start supporting it, and praising it. Do you see any inconsistency in your thought process? I do.    In my previous post, I have defined what makes people unwise, and that was – if people support religion and cannot see the wrong religion has done to the humanity. I call those people unwise. You are an atheist, and you do not agree with my view. To prove me wrong, you brought in your illiterate religious grandmother; you think she was a wise religious woman. I do not know her views, so I can't judge her. I came to this conclusion based on the history of religious violence and conflict around the world, and most recently in Assam and Mumbai. Such conflicts will continue unabated as long as we have various religions on earth. I could understand your point of view clearly if you were a religious man, but you claim that you are not. That's the puzzle, I can't solve. I wonder if you are a fake or a confused atheist.   Therefore, my suggestion to you, at this time, would be to know yourself first, and when you do, please be true to yourself and be consistent with your own views. When someone, being an atheist, praise religion, it becomes hypocrisy or confusion. I have no time or patient to hear any more confusing comments from you.   Thank you so much.   Jiten Roy     --- On Sun, 8/12/12, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Condemning Mumbai Violence To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, August 12, 2012, 1:25 PM   Why do you selectively overlook what I have said? I have said I am atheist. I will welcome you as a hero if you can practice in your social life what you preach in limited discussion groups. I have never kept it secret that Taslima Nasrin is a 'hero' to me.  Sent from my iPhone On Aug 12, 2012, at 1:16 PM, Jiten Roy <http://us.mc1427.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:   You are right - I cannot accomplish what I want to even in a small forum like this, let alone outside world, all because of people like you, who cannot see through the clutter in spite of possessing required quality and knowledge.