>>>>>>>>> I have been given this "Strategic" answer before and sounded a little lame to me. That alliance did not wash away any crimes BUT it tainted BAL in the process. Therefore, that tainted past made it easy for BNP to form another "Strategic alliance" today.
I could not care less about any specific party but I do care about state of democracy in our country. If level playing field is offered to Jammat or other opposition parties the SAME idea will protect BAL from any future persecutions by other parties.
It is actually a very simple idea.
Shalom!
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 2, 2012 8:06 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Civil Society if favour of banning Jamaat-Shibir's terroristic politics !!--The left and secular elements always wanted banning Jamaat
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2012 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Civil Society if favour of banning Jamaat-Shibir's terroristic politics !!--The left and secular elements always wanted banning Jamaat
There are couple of characters the whole nation knows about and why it seems it is taking forever for them to formulate a case against known criminals? Even more important question is why this party was able to establish alliences with BAL during 90's?
I am not connected with political parties but the parties themselves allows these "If"s to come up. General population know what was done to this nation in different times?
Those people who worked as agents of invading army, participated in looting, rape, murders should be punished.
I really do not care much which party has given shelter to these CRIMINALS. Naturally criminals should be punished for their deeds.
As I said earlier, if canceling registration of Jamaat solves major issues of Bangladesh, by all means we should go for it. To me our country comes first!!
However unlike many member in this forum, I do NOT see religion as any problem. In fact, I strongly feel authentic teachings of religion can solve our issues.
Also, BNP made it clear that, they are not wanting to save "War criminals". I think it is the right approach and they should stick to issue that concerns citizens of Bangladesh.
Truth be told, Jamaat has been a "Partner" to both BAL and BNP. So I don't anyone(BNP/BAL) can make any credible argument about "Moral" ground here. So we should stick to hunting "War criminals" and keep petty politics out of it. This issue is way more important than who wins the next election.
Shalom!
If evidences are credible against Jammat or any other parties, they should be punished (Common sense!). Same rule should be applied to others as well.
I am not sure what prevents some of us to grasp this very simple logic?
>>>>>>>>>> Not sure if you are against democracy or not. There are plenty of Christian and Jewish political parties and the world is not falling apart because of them. As long they are NOT violent, what is wrong with them?
We have to separate violence/torture from politics. Divorcing religion from politics will only make them more popular to the mass (As seen in Turkey and Egypt).
I think you are misunderstanding the message of my previous posts.
Shalom!
O K. Tell me, in your lecturing tone, how does a political party based on a religion function in a democracy?
>>>>>>>>>> Pretty simple if we are sincere. They "Play" by the SAME rule like every other parties and even communists. All parties and ideas should be welcomed as long NONE of them are violent in their ways. Once a party resort to violence, they should be dealt with by local laws.
Right now, pretty much all political parties are involved in corruption and violence.
As much as I disagree with BJP, they should be allowed to share their ideas and last polls suggested that, most Indians are not supporting their ideas.
We have to have a "Level playing field" for ALL parties. Problem starts when our politicians use one law for their party members and use other laws for opponents. That is NOT democracy. We have vibrant media and they are one of the most effective safeguards to uphold democracy.
Shalom!
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Sunday, December 2, 2012
Re: [mukto-mona] Civil Society if favour of banning Jamaat-Shibir's terroristic politics !!--The left and secular elements always wanted banning Jamaat
BAL had a strategic alliance with Jamat does not wash away the crimes Jamati leaders have committed in 1971.
-----Original Message-----
I do not care what BAL or BNP says or does and how they look at the trial of the war criminals. It does not matter with what politics Mujib started. He gave us a best constitution which means he went far away from religion-based politics. What do you think about Jamat? BAL had a strategic alliance with Jamat does not wash away the crimes Jamati leaders have committed in 1971. If we have respect for Nuremberg Trial, we also should have respect for the trial of war criminals (I think they call it crimes against humanity) that is underway.
If you think about our 1972 constitution and the political philosophy of Jamat, you should agree that Jamat is not entitled to the level ground you are referring too.
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
"If evidences are credible against Jamat.... they should be punished". This "if" statement is really surprising. Does this mean that Mr. Rahman is not aware of the role of Jamat in 1971? Does he have any doubt that the Jamat leaders under trial may be innocent?
>>>>>>>>> This was a generalized statement for ALL parties. As I said I am for level playing field for all people. There are some jamaat leaders under trial. The REAL question is why it is taking the government prosecutors to establish their case? As I stated earlier, over many decades I never considered Jammat a major political character in Bangladesh. However it is the current administration who is making them VERY popular to general population. There are many cases ongoing against Jammat leaders. Let the judicial system work without getting any interruptions. If the court is allowed to work interdependently, I am sure criminals can sorted out and punished. The article said that Jamat is not like Muslim League. >>>>>>>>>>> Yes. Even Sheikh Mujibur Rahman was an active member of the then Muslim league during 40's. The original name of BAL was "Awami Muslim League".
-----Original Message----- From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sun, Dec 2, 2012 12:00 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Civil Society if favour of banning Jamaat-Shibir's terroristic politics !!--The left and secular elements always wanted banning Jamaat On Nov 30, 2012, at 10:42 AM, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
"If evidences are credible against Jamat.... they should be punished". This "if" statement is really surprising. Does this mean that Mr. Rahman is not aware of the role of Jamat in 1971? Does he have any doubt that the Jamat leaders under trial may be innocent? Does he not know about the agenda of Jamat to discriminate against other religions and against other sects within Islam? Is he not aware of the fact that the original 1972 constitution does not allow registration if religion based political party? I read an article many decades ago (nearly 40 years) probably written by Amal Sen. The article said that Jamat is not like Muslim League. Jamat is an ideology. It has agenda that has goes beyond a limited time and space. It wears different masks at different times. Democracy is one such mask. But their ultimate goal is to establish a theological state. Bangladesh should restore the original 1972 constitution and cancel registration of Jamat.
The articles by Muntasir Mamun and also different pieces by Farida Majid should be our eye opener. Sent from my iPhone
His poor grasp of English (or any language) prevented him from getting the message that we do not want any lecture on "democracy" from the likes of him or S A Hannan (a gun-runner for Islamic terrorists in BD and an ardent supporter of Genocide 1971).
>>>>>>>>> You are read many hundreds of post I have written in discussion groups. I do NOT think I ever endorsed any political parties. ALL I have said that, EVERYONE should be dealt fairly and with the SAME rule. The beauty of democracy is people have reasonably fair chances to judge politicians based on their performances and judge them accordingly. This "Safe guard" will guard the safety of any community. >> We do not want to tolerate such bs anymore.
-----Original Message----- From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Nov 29, 2012 6:08 am Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Civil Society if favour of banning Jamaat-Shibir's terroristic politics !!--The left and secular elements always wanted banning Jamaat
Here we go again! Q. Rahman flattering himself! How can I, or anybody, have any 'prejudice' against him? He is not my neighbor, relative or kutumb, or a poet, artist, musician, teacher, social worker, political activist or writer -- people I closely or loosely associate with in my real life. I only know him on the internet. Day after day, month after month, year after year, we are exposed his dishonesty, lack of any original thinking, and plain 'munafequi' when it comes to topics on religion. His poor grasp of English (or any language) prevented him from getting the message that we do not want any lecture on "democracy" from the likes of him or S A Hannan (a gun-runner for Islamic terrorists in BD and an ardent supporter of Genocide 1971). Earlier Q Rahman spoke in ridiculous, and utterly meaningless tautology that left unexplained what he meant by 'religion'. << The beauty of democracy is people have reasonably fair chances to judge politicians based on their performances and judge them accordingly. This "Safe guard" will guard the safety of any community. >> We do not want to tolerate such bs anymore. Let us stop the EVIL of Jamaat and all other religious parties destroying our nation by spreading murder, arson, anarchy and mayhem. STOP European style fascism in the guise of Jamaat-i-Islam!
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com From: qrahman@netscape.net Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 21:01:53 -0500 Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Civil Society if favour of banning Jamaat-Shibir's terroristic politics !!--The left and secular elements always wanted banning Jamaat
Q. Rahman. the proseletyzer wants to lecture us about democracy
>>>>>>>>> When you start this way, I must be doing pretty bad job here. You are still with your prejudices intact. :-)
-----Original Message----- From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tue, Nov 27, 2012 5:36 am Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Civil Society if favour of banning Jamaat-Shibir's terroristic politics !!--The left and secular elements always wanted banning Jamaat
Q. Rahman. the proseletyzer wants to lecture us about democracy: << The beauty of democracy is people have reasonably fair chances to judge politicians based on their performances and judge them accordingly. This "Safe guard" will guard the safety of any community. >> O K. Tell me, in your lecturing tone, how does a political party based on a religion function in a democracy? Where would the 'beauty' reside? In India there is BJP flaunting the inability of Babasaheb Ambedker to stop the formation of religion-based political party from Indian Constitution due to the badmaishi of Hindu Mahasabha in 1947. Where do you see the 'beauty' in BJP politics in the functioning of current Indian democracy? How would you show us the 'beauty' in the politics of the crooks, criminals and mass-murderers among Jamaat members in Bangladesh? Farida Majid
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com From: kamalctgu@gmail.com Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 06:21:51 +0600 Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Civil Society if favour of banning Jamaat-Shibir's terroristic politics !!--The left and secular elements always wanted banning Jamaat
Jamat was banned before, and the preachers of scientific socialism, JSD, gave them shelter. That is the reality of politics in Bangladesh. To render a snake harmless, one should remove it's poison tooth instead of killing it.
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 7:23 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
"What I meant is this: asking Jamaat to strip itself off Islamic agenda is sheer stupidity. Jamaat as its very name implies cannot go without Islam on its plate."
The demand of the civil society is to put Jamat out of politics. Is that a stupid demand also, in your view? You said - it will be stupidity to ask Jama
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