I am okay with your views.
Your Source of reference is wikipedia and mine is free dictionary.
Humanism: other than general term, it implies about humans and humanistic values.
Atheism: To me 'atheist' unfortunately is only a relative term for theist. If there were few people who believed in deity, they could not refer the rest of the world as atheist. Inversely they would be only people termed as 'theist'. The rest will not hold any tag as 'not believing' will not require definition. Its inapplicable!
Hence, Non theist labels are not clear as perceptions are individualistically unique.
When defining myself as 'Freethinker'; theism or atheism does not come into consideration.
However, 'Freethinker' (its one word)- form opinions and idea on basis of logic, reason and empiricism, rational inquiry and speculation. 'Freethinker' rejects authority, tradition and dogma and that is fundamental of theism.
Limitations are for theist, for a sense of belonging to collective identity like catholic/protestant to be herded like sheep of shepherd. For non-theist, the best is to guide on definition, but do not confine his choice to drop down menu. Non theist do not confine their identity and have independent views regardless of definition.
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2013 07:29:12 -0600
Subject: Re: Testimony & Article to be Revised
From: wikiislam@gmail.com
To: freethought.relay@hotmail.com
Humanism is a pretty general term:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism
"... generally prefers individual thought and evidence (rationalism, empiricism), over established doctrine or faith (fideism)."
So it doesn't only apply to philanthropy, etc.
Atheism doesnt mean someone who is actively participating or enthusiastic about debates, is aggressive or is ready to debate anyone on the topic. It just means "someone who doesnt believe in god". That's all it means.
The other admin argued that freethinker can also apply to theists (although I don't agree but there's debate on this on the internet as well).
So we just stay away from these things and we just want to know the basic belief system of the person and not the details. Although "none" could be an option.
Some of these labels are not very clear. For example agnostic/atheist/freethinker/humanist/rationalist/skeptic/secularist. An athiest can be a humanist too.
So I could add more labels but for now I'm leaving these options as they are. Withheld is fine for now. I understand some people just dont want to put any labels on themselves but, technically, if the world-view is "none", the closest is atheism. Though I like the idea of "none".
Anyway, I know something can be done her but so much to do on the site nowadays, I wish I had more time to put into the site.
Maybe a page will be made someday on describing these terms for people.
On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 4:30 AM, Freethinker Atheist Ex-Muslim <freethought.relay@hotmail.com> wrote:
By definition "Humanism" that concerns with interests, needs, and welfare of humans, would not be very honest, as it should apply to someone who serve being philanthropic or in social service.
"Atheism" is a relative term for theist and is a passe for me as i don't care by dogging debates.
By definition, i am a freethinker. However till you don't have that provision, I am absolutely okay with "withheld".
Many thanks for all your email & finally putting up my testimony.
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 11:57:02 -0600
Subject: Re: Testimony & Article to be Revised
From: wikiislam@gmail.com
To: freethought.relay@hotmail.com
That is also not an option.
You can see the form link I gave you, those are the only options you can choose:
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Special:Form/newapostate
We have no problems with this kind of choice for 99% of our submissions because most people chose atheism (among that group of people).
So I wrote "Withheld" as the other admin suggested.
On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 11:44 AM, Freethinker Atheist Ex-Muslim <freethought.relay@hotmail.com> wrote:
I am so sorry, I cannot understand what you want to convey.
I have checked my testimony. Do you mean that Current World-View cannot be changed to "Freethinker" as of now?
If i have understood correctly, please change Current World-View to "None"
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 11:25:20 -0600
Subject: Re: Testimony & Article to be Revised
From: wikiislam@gmail.com
To: freethought.relay@hotmail.com
Plus, this will be the final version of the edits in the box, because then we have to update everything else too.
So decide what you want in the box and then it will be final (no more changes there). For example your fake name, belief and so on.
But you can edit the testimony when you want.
The other admin fixed some english issues (caps, spellings). If you have a major change to your story, you should try getting a friend to check the english and so on because we're very busy in other things.
Here it is:
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Freethinker_-_Former_MuslimOn Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Wiki Islam <wikiislam@gmail.com> wrote:
Ok.
Currently we dont have "free thinker" as a choice. Please choose between humanism and atheism:
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Special:Form/newapostate
(see options for full detail)On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Freethinker Atheist Ex-Muslim <freethought.relay@hotmail.com> wrote:
Can you change it to "Beyond Noun"............... Just Joking!
Please accept changes as below:-page_title|Beyond Belief
apostatename = Freethinker
currentfaithsystem = Freethinker
I hope this should be okay. Thanks mate!
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 17:13:18 -0600
Subject: Re: Testimony & Article to be Revised
From: wikiislam@gmail.com
To: freethought.relay@hotmail.com
Oh yes we are not pro-christian. I'm the founder and I'm an atheist actually.
Those changes are fine. We do need a "noun" for your name field. "Beyond belief" is not a noun and so its not suitable for a page belonging to a former Muslim.
It has to be a noun, fake name, or something like that. We can make "beyond belief" a subheading on your page if you like, but a fake name has to be chosen.
So let me know the fake name you want to use, or nickname.
---On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Freethinker Atheist Ex-Muslim <freethought.relay@hotmail.com> wrote:
FreethinkerDear anonymous,
I lost hope that my testimony will never be uploaded as i defied Jesus & Mary as well and wikiIslam seem to be pro-christian. So i never tried to update you further but thanks for your email.
As it will be on post, i made minor revisions on proofreading. I request you to accept the same.
- I never tittle my testimony as freethought relay and hence changed it to 'Beyond Belief'
- Addition on Line 68: "Believing in wrong god shall not be considered merely a human mistake, but the most heinous sin deserving of eternity in hellfire and is gravest of concern for a benign All-Knower. That's god's morality!"
- "mohammad" Spelt Uniformly
- minor rephrasings
Hope you do the needful at earliest.
Thanks & Regards
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 07:59:03 -0600
Subject: Re: Testimony & Article to be Revised
From: wikiislam@gmail.com
To: freethought.relay@hotmail.comThe other admin linked your testimony now to the main page and other places:
http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Freethought_Relay_-_Former_Muslim
thanksOn Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 8:05 AM, Freethinker Atheist Ex-Muslim <freethought.relay@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Correspondent,
Thanks for your email again.
I have read materials on various atheist sites that includes link in below message. An ex-muslim defying existence of all monotheistic prophets could be derailing for a Christian or a Jew. I only came to know after I was blocked, what the administrator conveyed. I could not find any other reason as debarring a new testifier within minutes having no familiarisation with functionality of site and leaving no margin was not comprehensive. With links to articles of ex-muslims conversion to christianity and not other major religions just added to this incomprehension.
As a freethinker, i think you can understand we can always work out things. We can discuss, argue, reason, if erred not for the sake of being defiant. Since you approved my testimony, i couldn't have a clue that it will not be acceptable.
For the time being do not say anything to your administrator now.
Let me do the cleanup work. I shall revise my testimony and split the article of my take on Islam to put it up on the blog. Guide me with the blog. I, myself will not want that you keep a story online that the reader will not like. I shall be working on it as you told me. You find my write up as a great story and I acknowledge your encouraging words. Thanks a lot really !
My humble request is since it shall not be put up where I intended, kindly do not use or put up my write-up, quotes or phrasing. Do not edit contents by your choice. Your site should not lose it's credibility to be seen as working for a disguised agenda with cover of beguiling authenticity.
A free expression is only free without any obligation to subscribe to a prior pre-structured ideology. I would request not to suppress, mould, bend this free expression.
I shall revise my testimony & article separately and will seek your approval on email. On your approval i shall submit it myself as per your guidance, in sections that you find suitable say testimony | comments | blog. Thanks a lot for communicating…!
Freethinker Atheist Ex-Muslim
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 20:13:40 -0500
Subject: Re: My Testimony
From: wikiislam@gmail.com
To: freethought.relay@hotmail.com
There's two admins on the site, I'm an atheist and the other admin is a Christian so its not a problem. We have a lot of atheist testimonies e.g.:
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Category:Former_Muslims_who_became_atheist
There are 84 stories here.
Your submission involved a lot of cleanup work and I think that was the main problem. We like testimonies written in a scholarly manner or ones that dont need a lot of work.
So I think what you could do is work on your testimony and polish it and host it on a blog and let us know and we may keep a copy too. There's lots of references in it and I think its good. It just needs a lot of work that at this point we didnt want to do, and we didnt want to keep a story online like that unless the reader will like it.
I have talked to the other admin about this. I will let you know what he says.
So please work on it, I think its a great story. Expand on it, write it like an article and so on.
If the other admin is OK with it, we may invite you to our site so you can use our site to expand your story and work on it and use our site like a notepad and use our tools for hyperlinking and creating references.
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 11:53 AM, Freethinker Atheist Ex-Muslim <freethought.relay@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Although you approved of my testimony in below email which was put forward after trying on your site for more than a week.
I sent word file as well and you wrote about formatting the information. Thanks for that....
--Admin3 (talk) has blocked and banned in a hurry in few minutes.
There are links to articles of conversion to christianity on wikiislam and i have defied existence of Jesus as well.
I think that is the real problem and this is the only hint i can get.
Let me know..
Thanks
Freethinker Atheiest Ex-Muslim
From: freethought.relay@hotmail.com
To: wikiislam@gmail.com
Subject: RE: My Testimony
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 09:28:01 +0000
Thanks a million for your response...
I was an agnostic at the start of this year. By the time i subscribed onto sites to find atheist within my city for social networking.
I couldn't find a single one, although some proclaimed atheist stated their location of Mumbai, India.
I was still doubting sites propogating against islam with fakes id's though i was certain about my atheism
I still feel alone as i have not met a real life atheist in person till date living in this city.
Please find my answers below in bold blue
I tried edit it myself but the wikiislam was not functioning due to some technical problem as per the message
I shall edit the contents as required and inform you to put up for everyone's reading.
Kindly inform having subscribed to wikiislam can i send emails to other ex-muslims who have testified on your site
Thanks
Freethinker Atheiest Ex-Muslim
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2012 20:13:59 -0500
Subject: Re: My Testimony
From: wikiislam@gmail.com
To: freethought.relay@hotmail.com
Thanks, its a good testimony with lots of detail.
Thanks for acknowledging my testimony. I dedicate this to Dan Barker, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Ex-Muslims (who testified on wikiislam and ex-muslims who are actively involved in unravelling the truth behind this imperialistic cult)
1. Can you tell me a fake name you want to use for the testimony?
I have chosen 'Beyond Belief- Think Zone' as my 'Apostate name'. In Case if its not acceptable, you may use Freethinker Atheist Ex-Mulsim as my substitute name
2. Formatting it is going to be a lot of work for us also and we have so much to do. Could you do it for us instead? I can tell you how to format it.
Thank you i shall try. You may hold my testimony till then and i shall inform you by email.
Create a username here and it will take you to your testimony:
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Beyond_Belief-_Think_Zone_-_Former_Muslim
Italics: ''Hello''
Bullets:
# hello
# hello2
Headings:
==Heading==
Underline:
<u>hello</u>
But we recommend not to use underline but italics instead.
Indents in text are not used on our site.
That should do it. If you need help, click the "new section" link on our Help page:
http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=WikiIslam:Forum/Help_and_Inquiries&action=edit§ion=new
It shouldn't be very hard and once you're done, you'll know how to revise it in the future too, so its a good idea for you to edit it.
Hope you can do it. thanks!On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 1:16 PM, Freethinker Atheist Ex-Muslim <freethought.relay@hotmail.com> wrote:
To,
The Wikiislam Team
Apologize that the file could not be opened last time. Resending the file and would like you to upload it with the format intact.
Can you please respond to my emails
Thanks
Freethinker Ex-Muslim
From: freethought.relay@hotmail.com
To: wikiislam@gmail.com
Subject: My Testimony
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 18:51:32 +0000
To,
The Wikiislam Team
I wanted to put my testimony in readable format as i have compiled. I am unable to format text on your site and find it very difficult to upload the way i have formatted.
My testimony is not conducive to reading.
Enclosing the actual file which i am going to put up on other sites.
Please put up this testimony with FORMAT as it is in enclosure 'Freethought Relay.docx'
Thanks
Free Thought Relay
__._,_.___
