>>>>>>>>> Show me a single civilization that lasted for a while by completely divorcing religion from their country/communities. Communists did try and failed miserably (Murdered and ruthlessly taken freedom of speech from majority in the process).
But, when you dig into the life histories of religious leaders, you will find that most of them are peppered with immoralities.
>>>>>>>>> That cannot be a "Standard" or "Criterion" to judge any system. Albeit Bangladesh has seem more corruption under communists and socialist type of government but we also have honest people like Nurul Islam Nahid and Maulana Bhashani etc from same ideology.
Now some of us can disagree with religious ideologies and communist ideologies but there are NO system in the world which produces 100% honest leaders all the time. Therefore, if you look at this dispassionately (And divorce ideological difference from the equation) you will find more honest people in religious institutions than non-religious ones.
eligion is really a big powerful political tool now
>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately it is. However opposing religion also "Evolved" into a political platform in most countries of the world. So if that is acceptable, religion should be as well. Let people pick what serves them best!!
A sound democratic system is the "Way out".
Shalom!
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Jan 19, 2013 10:49 pm
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Re: [Alapon] Fwd: Indian Muslims March in Protest Against Saudi Wahhabi Cultural Vandalism
--- On Sat, 1/19/13, SAHANNAN <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com> wrote:
From: SAHANNAN <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com>
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Re: [Alapon] Fwd: Indian Muslims March in Protest Against Saudi Wahhabi Cultural Vandalism
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 19, 2013, 9:22 AM
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 7:11 AM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: [Alapon] Fwd: Indian Muslims March in Protest Against Saudi Wahhabi Cultural Vandalism
To: alapon@yahoogroups.com ; Farah Haq Quazi <farah_haq_quazi@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Alapon] Fwd: Indian Muslims March in Protest Against Saudi Wahhabi Cultural Vandalism
--- On Wed, 1/16/13, Golam Akhter <akhtergolam@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Golam Akhter <akhtergolam@gmail.com>
Subject: [Alapon] Fwd: Indian Muslims March in Protest Against Saudi Wahhabi Cultural Vandalism
To: AILC-AIFD@yahoogroups.com, "imam bashar arafat" <mohamadba@aol.com>, "Imam-Mo ham edMagid" <imam@adamscenter.us>, imam@mccmd.org, "Johari Abdul-Malik" <imamjohari@gmail.com>, "Imam-Yusuf-Saleem" <saleemfam@aol.com>, 6064@yahoogroups.com
Dear Moderate Muslims (estimated to be 20%+-) and Islamist Muslims (Fundamentalists, Fanatics, Wahabis, Deobandis, Al Quidas, Talebans, Supporters of Sharia laws, and Terrorists etc. - estimated to be 80%+- world wide),
From: Center for Islamic Pluralism <list@islamicpluralism.org>
Date: Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 5:01 PM
Subject: Indian Muslims March in Protest Against Saudi Wahhabi Cultural Vandalism
To: akhtergolam@gmail.com
Indian Muslims March in Protest Against Saudi Wahhabi Cultural Vandalism
CIP
January 14, 2013
Be the first of your friends to like this.
General Secretary
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Saturday, January 19, 2013
Re: [mukto-mona] Re: [Alapon] Fwd: Indian Muslims March in Protest Against Saudi Wahhabi Cultural Vandalism
You won't able to show me a single benefit that we could not have achieved without religion.
-----Original Message-----
Hannan Saheb,
I do not disagree with you that most of the good in this world came from good people, and many of them are (moderately) religious. It's all about the level of religiosity in people. Yes, most people were/are to some extent religious. Problem is not there; problem is with the undeniable divisions religions have introduced in the world that have been the root of all troubles.
Also, I agree with you that 'conviction' is the key to the success, be that religious or scientific. My question is - where will you invest your conviction, in religion or science? Religious fanatics invest most of their conviction in religion. That's a waste, in my view.
You won't able to show me a single benefit that we could not have achieved without religion. People often tell me that we got morality from religion. But, when you dig into the life histories of religious leaders, you will find that most of them are peppered with immoralities. What we do with it? We choose to ignore or cover up those dark spots to hide our stupidity. In that effort, we try to praise them even more with colorful terms to camouflage their dark past. We do so – because we do not have the courage or power to confront it; religion is really a big powerful political tool now. There is no way out.
Jiten Roy
Jiten sahib's opinion, I can not share .Most of the good in the world are done by good people who are mostly religious. Faith does not mean , at least in the case of Islam irrational faith. The word for faith in Islam comes from the root word Amnun( Alif Mim Noon) which really means conviction. Please read the book Tauhid, its meaning for thought and life by Late Shahid Ismail Raji al Faruqi a former Professor of Temple University , USA .
Shah Abdul Hannan
From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com [mailto: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jiten Roy
I said this before - religion has done more harm than good for the humanity. Most people cannot comprehend it.
The foundation of each religion is faith, which is totally opposite to the foundation of the science and technology. A religious mind is already contended with faith. Therefore, creativity cannot survive there very long. That's the reason for the lack of scientific developments and progress in the religious societies.
I believe, some creative functioning cells still exist in the brain of a religious moderate; therefore, number of religious moderates in a society may correlate with the scientific progress and prosperity in the society.
Yes, it is true that - much more devout fanatical religious brains can be found in the Islamic societies than religious moderates. That may explain societal backwardness and slow progress in those societies.
Jiten Roy
From: Golam Akhter <akhtergolam@gmail.com>
Dear Farah Haq Quazi,
If you are serious to know the facts or near close to the facts, please give time and interest to know the truth. Mahatma Gandhi said -"Truth is God"
Please try the renowned poll takers, and write what you want to know in their web page if you fail let me know:
In the United States, some notable companies include:
Regards.
Yours sincerely,
Golam F. Akhter, Bangladesh-USA Human Rights Coalition Inc.
==================================
On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 10:33 PM, Farah Haq Quazi <farah_haq_quazi@yahoo.com> wrote:
If I may ask this, could you please help us identify the authenticity of the data (80%-20%) regarding Islam and other religions? I ' m curious.
Regards.
Date: Wednesday, January 16, 2013, 9:43 PM
Let us work and interact together with mutual respect and human rights (Universal Human Rights: http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml ) to reverse the percentage for mutual existence, protection, and safety like Christianity - moderates 80%, Jews- moderates 80%, all other major religions- moderates 80% approximately.
Regards.
Yours sincerely,
Golam F. Akhter, Bangladesh-USA Human Rights Coalition Inc.
================
---------- Forwarded message ----------
by All India Ulema and Mashaikh Board
Share:
In a clear message to the Government of Saudi Arabia, a big section of Indian Muslims today in Delhi demanded that the Saudi regime must sign a treaty with all the governments of the world and assure in clear terms that no damage will be done to the cultural heritage of Muslims and sacred signs of Islam in the Saudi kingdom.
This was communicated in a memorandum to the Embassy of Kingdom of Saudi Arabia after a peace march at Jantar Mantar which was addressed by Maulana Syed Mo ham mad Ashraf Kichowchhwi, General Secretary of the All India Ulema and Mashaikh Board, and others.
Indian Muslim Demonstration Against Wahhabism, Delhi , January 14, 2013 -- Photograph by All India Ulema and Mashaikh Board.
The participants of the rally had come from various parts of the country with banners and placards saying among other things "Indian Muslims will not allow Talibanization of India."
Maulana Syed Mo ham mad Ashraf Kichowchhwi in his speech dealt at length with the activities of Saudi authorities. The behavior with the Indian hajj pilgrims was specially mentioned by Maulana Kichowchhwi, who said that Saudi authorities force Indian hajjis to practice Wahhabism and stop the pilgrims from performing rituals according to their practices. In cases when even offering "Salaam" to the Prophet is carried out silently with a view to avoid offending the rulers, the authorities come down heavily.
He said in some cases Indian pilgrims are arrested and humiliated, and the Indian officers sent to take care of the pilgrims lend no support to their fellow citizens and willfully allow the Saudis to play their game fearlessly.
He said in the cases of other nationalities their hajj officers and embassy or consulate staff put up resistance and ensure their safety and dignity but this is not the case with Indian officers.
The Prophet ' s Mosque, Madinah.
The speakers, including Syed Babar Ashraf, National Secretary of the Board, expressed their anger against moves to deface the tomb of Prophet Mo ham mad and also demanded that Saudi Government must sign a treaty with the government of India and other governments assuring that no damage shall henceforth be done to any monument of Islam in India .
Maulana Mo ham mad Ashraf Kichowchhwi demanded that all the bulldozed cultural monuments and signs of Islam, including Jannatul Baqee and Jannatul Moalla, must be restored and developed and decorated accordingly.
Jannatul Baqee, the cemetery in Madinah of the Family, Companions, and Successors to the Prophet Mu ham mad sallallahualeyhisalaam, before its demolition by Saudi Wahhabis in 1925.
The devastated site of Jannatul Baqee, 2008 -- Photograph Via Wikimedia Commons.
The gathering was also of the view that Indian officers sent to Saudi Arabia during Hajj are selected on the basis of their ideology, and Wahhabis are given charge of the Hajj affairs, who have until now demonstrated that they are better suited to serve Saudi Wahhabi interests rather than the interests of Indian pilgrims.
Maulana Kichowchhwi also said that Saudi Wahhabi influences can be easily seen in the government bodies of India requiring Muslim representation. Almost all such selections are done on the basis of ideology and Wahhabis are chosen to represent Indian Muslim ignoring the very vast majority [almost 80 percent]. The Waqf boards and Waqf councils and Hajj committees are by now transformed as the centers of propagation of Wahhabism through government machinery.
He said demolition of the Ghausia Masjid in Delhi was not an isolated incident. It is well connected with the developments taking place in Libya, Egypt, Tunisia, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India and of course in Saudi Arabia, leading them to ruin the cultural heritage of Islam everywhere.
In all the above mentioned countries tombs of Sunni Sufi saints and Godly Muslims are being targeted because they happen to be centers of propagation of peace and amity and tolerance in the human race much above individual faiths while Saudi Wahhabi ideology refuses to concede to tolerance and peace its proper virtue.
Ulema and Mashaikh who have expressed their anguish over this sorry state of affairs include:
Hazrat Maulana Syed Mehdi Miya Chishti, Gaddi Nashin Ajmer Sharif (Rajasthan)
Hazrat Maulana Syed Alamgir Ashraf, Nagpur ( Maharashtra )
Hazrat Syed Jawed Naqshbandi, Delhi
Hazrat Farid Nizam, Dargah Hazrat Nizamuddin Aulia, Delhi
Hazrat Maulana Nooruddin Asdaq, Nalanda ( Bihar Sharif)
Hazrat Mujiburrahman Urf Bablu Mia, Mainpuri (Uttar Pradesh)
Haji Yunus Solanki, Vadodra ( Gujarat )
Maulana Farooq Razvi, Ludhiyana ( Punjab )
Syed Hammad Ashraf, Lucknow (Uttar Pradesh)
Hayatunnabi Khan, Sajjada Nashin, Dargah Hafiz, Moradabad
Syed Ali Naim Chishti, Sajjada Nashin, Dargah Sultan Mia, Moradabad
Hafiz Iftikhar Husain Sabir, Sajjada Nashin, Dargah Pahalwan, Lajpat Nagar, Moradabad
Syed Shibli Mia, Sajjada Nashin, Dargah Shah Mukammal, Eidgah, Moradabad
Maulana Mo ham mad Noorani, Sri Nagar (Jammu & Kashmir)
Shahnwaz Warsi (Uttrakhand)
Maulana Ghulam Dastgir, Ranchi (Jharkhand)
Memorandum
To: Mr. Pranav Mukherji, Hon. President, Govt. of India, New Delhi
Mr. Manmohan Singh, Hon. Prime Minister, Govt. of India , New Delhi
Mr. Sushil Kumar Shinde, Hon. Minister of Home Affairs, Govt. of India , New Delhi
Mr. Salman Khursheed, Hon. Minister of External Affairs, Govt. of India , New Delhi
Mr. K. Rahman Khan, Hon. Minister of Minority Affairs, Govt. of India , New Delhi
Mrs. Chandresh Kumari Katoch, Hon. Minister of Culture, Govt. of India , New Delhi
Miss Kumari Selja, Hon. Minister of Social Justice and Empowerment, Govt. of India , New Delhi
Mr. Tejendra Khanna, Hon. Lt. Governor, Delhi Government
Mrs. Sheila Dixit, Hon. Chief Minister, Delhi Government
Sir/Madam,
India, home of second largest population of Muslims in the world, with a well recognized and rich Sufi culture contributing to the peace, amity and tolerance in the society, occupies a high place in the comity of Muslim nations.
Indian Muslims are aggrieved over the intention and impending move to deface the Tomb of Prophet Mu ham mad (Peace Be Upon Him) in the holy city of Madinah and demand that the government of Kingdom of Saudi Arabia should assure the world, including the government of India, that they are not going to do any harm to any of the Islamic signs and sites in their country.
It is to be noted that Indian pilgrims going to perform Hajj in Saudi Arabia are often not allowed to perform the rituals according to their profession and established practices. They are coerced to practice the infamous Wahhabi ideology against their own beliefs. The Indian officers deployed to take care of the pilgrims on most occasion side with the Saudi authorities and do nothing substantial to help Indian hajjis in performing hajj on the rightful lines of the age old Sufi tradition/practice. It is because the selection is done at the behest of Wahhabi organisations and government authorities send those officers who themselves are also the practitioners of extreme Wahhabi ideology. These people have gained access to the political, governmental and administrative quarters by duping the Government authorities and faking themselves as the true representatives of Indian Muslims.
Let it be also mentioned here that in our beloved nation Wahhabism, which endorses extremism, has gradually gained a powerful position by projecting themselves as the real representatives of Indian Muslims, which is totally untrue because more than 80 percent of Indian Muslims profess and practice Sunni Sufi ideology which preaches love to human kind. Almost all the bodies of government requiring Muslim representations have been hijacked by these Wahhabis and thereby the vast majority of Muslims goes unheard, unrepresented and badly ignored. Wahhabis, getting their foothold in the corridors of political power are now trying to dictate politics and their activities which started with a socio-preligious message finally turned into a political entity thus becoming a threat for the democracy of India and the social fabric of our beloved nation. These elements play with emotions of peace-loving Muslims and arouse the religious sentiments to create chaos and benefit themselves both socially and politically.
All India Ulema and Mashaikh Board, through this memorandum request your kindness to come to the aid of the Indian Muslim community and make the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia government respond regarding plans for expansion of Masjid-e-Nabvi [The Prophet ' s Mosque] and other sacred Islamic places in Makkah and Medinah. This is in no way an interference in domestic affairs of Saudi Arabia because these sacred places are the center of reverence for the Muslim Ummah all over the world.
It will be in the fitness of things if the Government of Saudi Arabia agrees to issue a White Paper and spells out the expansion program, while signing a treaty with all the governments of the world assuring it will not deface, demolish or destroy any of the signs of Islam, and restore all those sacred sites, including Jannatul Baqee and Jannatul Moallah, that have been bulldozed in the last century by the Saudi dictators.
The insanity of the Wahhabi Saudi regime has reached its zenith and now the Tomb of Prophet Mo ham mad (Peace Be Upon Him) is under threat, hence this earnest appeal from this leading body of the majority of Indian Muslims.
Thank you.
Regards
Maulana Syed Mo ham mad Ashraf Kichowchchwi
Maulana Syed Mo ham mad Ashraf Kichowchhwi.
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