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Sunday, March 24, 2013

Re: [mukto-mona] Caste, corruption and romanticism by KANCHA ILAIAH



I am glad that you don't buy the idea of 'birthright' for castes. But, that notion was not reflected in your last post. A soldier cannot claim to be a Boishya, he is a Khoitriya. Why would he even want to be a Boishya? This is not a complicated concept. This is about correcting a wrong practice our forefathers have instilled in our psyche. 


The concept that - caste is not a birthright, but a division of workforce, is a very logical one, and it needs to be promoted through education and mass campaign if our society really wants to get rid of caste-ism. Untouchability is a part of the caste-ism, which needs to be defused through education and campaign. We need to learn to value work, no matter what it is. This concept is also missing in our education and culture. Time has come to learn from the Western society.

 

We observe 11 days of morning without being Brahmins; who can stop anybody if he/she wants to go one or the other way?

 

Jiten Roy



--- On Sun, 3/24/13, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Caste, corruption and romanticism by KANCHA ILAIAH
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, March 24, 2013, 11:13 AM

 

 
This is addressed to Roy. I know you don't buy caste practice although the practice is as per scriptures the reason being that the scriptures have been written by man. I don't buy it either. But the practice is still a cruel social reality in the most parts of the Indian subcontinent. Untouchability, consideration of caste as a factor in marriages, discrimination on account of "Oshoucha" (period of condolence or impurity---a brahmin has only 11 days while a Shudra has 30 days to be "pure") after the death of a close relative, and use of Brahmins for poojas are still practiced.    

From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Caste, corruption and romanticism by KANCHA ILAIAH
 
Defending the caste system in any way is at best foolish and living in the negative umpteenth century. It is worse than an Islamic idiot branding their 6th century holy books as having the last words on any knowledge and wisdom.
 
A modern educated person should stop defining people in terms of the caste system. That would stop a major driver of hatred, division and exploitation that have been going on in our subcontinent for too long.
 
Obviously, people have many professions. The same person often has many talents. Depending on what one is doing at the time, the same person can be a scientist, a writer, a cook, a farmer, a soccer player, a guitar player, and so one. The world does not need a stupid Hindu system to define anyone.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
=============================
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:32 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Caste, corruption and romanticism by KANCHA ILAIAH
 
"One's caste is still a birth right or obligation. A priest is still one who is a Brahmin by caste even though he may be a stupid and uneducated."

I don't buy it. A schoolteacher or a cultivator can't be a Khoitriya. A businessman can't be a Brahmin. Birth right for caste is an illegal practice. Just because people have accepted it - does not mean I should do it also. Popular support for something does not make it right. You may even find some scriptures to support your view, but that means nothing also; people write scriptures. You did not provide any logic either in your claim that caste is a birthright.
 
Jiten Roy



--- On Sat, 3/23/13, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Caste, corruption and romanticism by KANCHA ILAIAH
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, March 23, 2013, 9:14 PM

 
You are talking about exceptions or special cases. One's caste is still a birth right or obligation. A priest is still one who is a Brahmin by caste even though he may be a stupid and uneducated. In India it is still a serious problem and is working as a gravitational pull against all efforts for socio-economic upliftment.  One good thing is that in the eye of law all castes enjoy equal rights. Moreover, in many cases the Dalits enjoy special privileges. We have seen Dalit president, chief ministers, and ministers. It has caused some aberrations in the realm of Indian politics. One becomes chief minister with Dalit votes and yet betrays the voters the reason being that the super structure hides the fact that the caste hatred is still embedded in our hearts although many of us intellectually have got out of the curse of the caste system.
The bottom line is that the Indian caste system is not analogous with the so called blue collar-white collar classification of the working people. We still have a long long way to go before we can stop. 
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 23, 2013, at 6:15 PM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Most people just talk around the problem of caste system.  There will be no need of any new theory if we simply try to understand what this system really means. This system was introduced to represent different working-class people. Western societies use blue color and white color working-class people. The idea is the same as the caste system. The four castes clearly represented four categories of works. When someone's work category changes, automatically his/her caste will change as well. Caste is not a birthright.  Same family could have multiple castes. Caste has been taken as a birthright for exploitation. Lower caste people should reject the notion of birthright; Brahmin can come out of a lower caste family. I have seen priest from a lower caste family. I think we need proper education and messaging about this issue.  That's all.

Thanks.
 
 
Jiten Roy


--- On Fri, 3/22/13, kancha ilaiah <kanchailaiah@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

From: kancha ilaiah <kanchailaiah@yahoo.co.in>
Subject: [mukto-mona] Caste, corruption and romanticism by KANCHA ILAIAH
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, March 22, 2013, 1:49 AM

 
Caste, corruption and romanticism
KANCHA ILAIAH
 
The Dalit-Bahujan theory or Ambedkarism cannot negotiate with funny theories of sociologists like Ashis Nandy. The best way to counter them is to write a better theory
Utsa Patnaik, a noted economist said in a small note that she circulated "Ashis Nandy had earlier made approving remarks on the 1988 Deorala burning to death of a young widow in the name ofsati (terming it a courageous act in a piece in theIndian Express), and more recently has reportedly made a factually baseless, highly offensive comment on Dalits and corruption. Given the crudity of these positions one wonders how 'nuanced' and 'ironic' can an academic get. There is nothing here to surprise us, for Nandy has always projected a consistent intellectual position.
"His writings, starting from The Intimate Enemyclearly represent an Indianised version of Romanticism, the much-analysed trend of thinking which valorises pre-capitalist traditions, local cultures and subjectivities while critically opposing the rationalism and homogenizing values of industrial capitalism." This is a perceptive observation of Mr. Nandy's academic romanticism. Such romaticisation of caste and culture has deeper scholastic roots.
'High against low'
Mr. Nandy is not alone in positioning the cultural character of Indian society in a top down manner and romanticising the cultural ethos of 'high as against low.' This has been the cultural morale of the so-called mainstream sociological scholarship in India. The caste/class background of Indian sociologists, what they see and study in Indian society, is presented as normative and the victims of the social process are expected to affirm those theories.
This sociological methodology was invented by M.N. Srinivas who studied the Indian caste system from his own cultural standpoint and designated the process of perceived change as Sanskritisation. A systemic role was assigned to an ancient Indian language, which was already dead. Yet he turned that into a theoretical category. Its use was only in the Hindu ritual realm at that time and no Brahmin family was using that language in day-to-day life. That linguistic-cultural construction was deployed as positivist and modernist. He romanticised the so-called 'low castes imitating the high castes,' so much so that the whole academic discourse in India sought to be mesmerised; it was also projected as a creative utopia.
The Dalit-Bahujan life was essentially culturally inclusive as against the Brahminic exclusionism. Srinivas picked up some common food practices between Brahminic and Dalit-Bahujan (who ate vegetables alongside meat foods historically and discovered many vegetarian food items) and asserted that the lower castes were getting Sansrkitised. He discovered that Sanskritisation among the lower castes was deterministic and transformative. It was to suggest that no other forms of lower caste mobilisation were required. Though sociologists like A.R. Desai disagreed with this pseudo-transformation theory, they were ruthlessly marginalised.
Polygamy and divorce
Another noted sociologist, Andre Beteille, found Sanskritisation taking place at a systemic level on a continuous basis. He said: "Divorce, separation, polygamy etc., were common among the Dalits. The fact that they consider divorce bad is the impact of Sanskritization." What does he mean by saying polygamy was 'common' among Dalits? Does he mean every second Dalit man had/has more than one wife? What about Brahmin men? Not even one in thousand was/is polygamous? Was polygamy rare among Brahmins and Kshatriyas? Where did he get his statistics about 'Dalit polygamy' being common and Brahmin polygamy being uncommon or rare? One hopes that the census data would include caste and polygamy relationship among all castes and religions.
His assertion that "they [Dalits] consider divorce bad" because of Sanskritisation is believed to be normative. How would he theorise the increased divorce rates among the upper castes — particularly among Brahmins? Is there no opposite linguistic-cultural concept for that? Shall we call it Palisation, as Pali was the mass language when Sanskrit was the court language? Or if we say that the process of upper castes opting for increased divorce or meat eating should be theorised as Dalitisation, what would they say? Would they not ask: what is this concept called Dalitisation?
Yet another sociologist, Dipankar Gupta, studied the Indian caste system very seriously and told the United Nations Committee on Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD) examining 'Discrimination based on descent' in 2007, that "Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Baniyas, Shudras and Dalits no more exist in India." Is this romanticisation or mesmerisation of Indian sociology?
Corruption not a commodity
Ashis Nandy, a noted social-psychologist, spread the theoretical net of corruption to all the Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes and Other Backward Classes. He discovered that the 'most' corrupt in Indian society came from these social groups. Has he not followed in the footsteps of MNS' theory of "lower castes imitate the higher castes?" Does not such a statement romanticise corruption? And does not such location of 'corruption' among the poorest of poor endanger the whole social science discourse? Corruption is not a commodity that becomes accessible for every human being on the street. It operates, as the Sanskrit language operated among the bhoodevatas, among those who have money and power. Power among the upper castes of India is like the thread in a garland. It connects with the other quite coherently. This is not true of Dalit-Bahujan castes. A few here and there in real power (only Mayawati was in that category) structures do not and cannot connect to the most poverty ridden masses.
Several commentators, including Utsa Patnaik, pointed out that Mr. Nandy supported Sati, the theory of Mohan Bhagawat that Bharat is 'rape free' while 'India is rapist,' as it was influenced by western capitalism. It was like saying that 'feudal rape is pure and capitalist rape is impure.' Mr. Nandy is a Gandhian democrat. He imbibed Gandhism through Nehruvian ideology. For Gandhi, castes were necessary to maintain the balance of social system. For Nehru, corruption was the necessary greasing oil for the state engine to run. Mr. Nandy transforms this greasing oil theory into a theory of 'social equaliser.'
'Republican Utopia'
For his mode of Indian sociology, SC/ST/OBCs travelling ticketless in trains is equivalent to upper caste air travel with a stay in a five star hotel, without spending money from their personal account. This theory resembles the sociological theory of Andre Beteille that when Dalits eat vegetarian they get equalised with Brahmins. Mr. Nandy discovered a majestic 'Republican Utopia' in the Indian mode of corruption.
If "Sanskritisation" and "corruption" become part of the "Republican Utopia," that republican utopia would match neither the ancient republican dream of Plato nor the late medieval utopian dream of Thomas More. Caste is a concrete thing at hand as slavery and class were in Europe. There is no positive sense in the notion or practice of corruption. As death cannot equalise human life, corruption cannot equalise castes. There is no way that the Dalit-Bahujan theory or Ambedkarism could negotiate with this funny theory. Neither could democratic or Marxist theory.
Equaliser theory
Since the upper castes are already corrupt, an equaliser theory is invented in the very life of Dalit-Bahujan. As the Dalit-Bahujan have no theoretical resource to counter such theories, some rushed to the police station to stop this kind of theorisation. Mr. Nandy had an intellectual answer for that recourse. "I will sit in jail and write a bigger theory." He cites Gandhi and Nehru writing their theories in jail.
At this stage, the Dalit democratic movement cannot afford to send such theoreticians to jail and give more credence to their theories. Let it not be forgotten that there is no living Ambedkar among us to write better theory without ever going to jail. Dr. Ambedkar overtook Nehru in a recent survey with his unparalleled theory of 'Dalit democracy' as the equaliser. In due course, he will also overtake Gandhiji in greatness. The best way to put this kind of sociology in its place is to burn more midnight oil to write a better theory of Dalit sociological imagination — not of utopia.
(The author is Director, Centre for the Study of Social Exclusion and Inclusive Policy, Maulana Azad National Urdu University, Hyderabad)
 


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