However I disagree with the following statement
Rather he called me many names (Along with many other highly accomplished members) in different occasions and I responded (Whenever possible) with my sets of opinions.
I think you have a chip on your shoulder about being Bangladeshi and a person from minority community. Yes, we have huge flaws (Just look at our current politics) and we have many areas of opportunity but people of this country are not shy of sharing their opinions.
I am glad most people are respectful about ethnicity and religion of each other. That is why we can celebrate puja and Eid at the same time without much incident. Our trouble (Religious) are caused by very tiny fraction of politicians. That is why we see an uptake of violence against all people of Bangladesh during election. It is NOT a desirable situation but tolerance it needed from ALL COMMUNITIES not from one. Most people of this country are very sympathetic to the problems faced by minority population (Religious or ethnic) but if you assault people for simply stating he (or she) is a Muslim, it becomes difficult.
Going back to America, every Americans have to be active to achieve success, those who simply depend on others for their path, often cannot start their journey to success.
Similarly our community leaders need to shows intolerance against biases, immoral acts and corruption not against any religion.
Shalom!
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 3, 2013 11:16 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Leninism is no Marxism
A little more information about Multiculturalism in America:
I am a first generation immigrant, so I know what I am saying. These are not my ideological opinions; these are based on my personal observations.
I know multiculturalism is an intellectually ideal concept, but that's not good enough in practice. Many good theories did not work in practice.
Most people judge multiculturalism with emotions and idealism, but reality is different. I am confident about the fact that - many people are being deprived off their due opportunity just because of the fear of cultural mismatch in the department. This is not just my fear, American administrators have this fear also, and that's why they have quota system in some of the government and semi-government institutions, but, how about most non-government, and private institutions?
This should not be judged as hatred or intent of discrimination; it's out of a fear of the unknown. So, my advice is not to bring your heritage in the workplace. I hear many stories, where Muslim workers bring their religion into workplace, in addition to many other cultural heritages. They become eye-sore in the section pretty quickly.
This is why I came to the conclusion that multiculturalism may contribute to the underclass in the society. I also fear that this could be the driving force behind the support for multiculturalism by most politicians. In American dynamic society, people move up the societal ladder. So, a constant supply of underclass people is needed in this society. Multiculturalism will serve as a retarding agent in the social dynamism. It's the 'opium' of the first generation immigrants.
I know most of these things will not register with many of you.
-SD
-Seuss
"I know you hate America, but you should know - it was not America's fault that you had to leave for a third world country." - Such comment is manifestation of losing an argument. As for myself, I left on my own choice.
"This is how we become a part of the melting-pot. This is valid only for the first generation of immigrants; second generation will learn on their own." - Every country on earth is a melting pot U.S.A. is a pressure cooker. Every year, about a quarter of a million white Americans leave for elsewhere. Even after staying for generations, African Americans feel alienated. As the proverb says, "New converts sing hymns louder", you are a perfect example of a new convert.
In 1989, there was a vacancy for a junior level technician in our section at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center. An Indian guy applied. When he saw me, he came up to me and asked me to pursue his case. I talk to him for a while, and looked at his CV. I was convinced that he will be a very good technician. I know that - section head likes me, so I thought I will plead for him. I went to my boss and said - this guy has excellent experiences in the field. Can we hire him? He said - he will look at his CV, and let me know.
After a month, my boss called me. He said - "Jiten, I agree he has good experiences; but, I am not sure he will be a good match with other." When the final decision was made - he was not selected. At that point something hit me. I realized that – no matter how good you are - first you have to get hired, and, to get hired, you need to be likeable to others in the section. That's a very important factor to be successful in whatever you do.
There was another Indian post-doc scientist, used to work in the Rockefeller University Lab. He used to live in the same building with us. Every morning I used to see him going to work. He would put on "Trilok" and used to recite God's name holding a small bag containing a bead-chain (Jopomala). I thought - he must have applied from India, and was hired based on his CV. Then I heard - he left for India at the end of his contract.
Being immigrant creates multitudes of obstacles in our ways. We often do not know how to relate and talk to other American colleagues, so we all can feel at home. This is important for being successful in here.
So, don't you dare to teach me about American multi-culturalism
>>>>>>> OK. Please teach us about it. When did it start?
Shalom!
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Nov 1, 2013 9:37 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Leninism is no Marxism
I know you hate America, but you should know - it was not America's fault that you had to leave for a third world country. I am living in the American multi-culturalism for 30 years, you are not. So, don't you dare to teach me about American multi-culturalism; I can learn from my life experiences, which you can't. Your arrogance knows no bound. I cannot get down to your level.
Do you know how American society got deteriorated so such? Recent immigrants have rejected the American melting-pot idealism; they want to keep their own culture and identity. Many recent immigrants prefer to use their own language, and, therefore, mix with their own community only; many of them do not even bother to learn English. They are the new backward class.
"that society is now the envy of the rest of the world." - it was probably so about five decades ago. Presently, in the quality of public life index, the Americans are not in the top ten list.
Yes, thousands of lives were lost in the American Civil War to build a greater American Society, and that society is now the envy of the rest of the world. So, the lives lost in American Civil war is not in vein, unlike the lives lost for installing the Socialism around the world, which ultimately crumbled on it's own weight.
The Tea-Party mentality is needed to maintain the check & balance between the Capitalist and Marxist systems. So, I have no problem with it.
Thanks.
Jiten Roy
I am giving a link to another piece of mine in Daily Times (must be read critically)
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2013\09\23\story_23-9-2013_pg3_5.
But I want to draw attention of Mukto-mona members to MEGA, the historic project of publishing Marx and Engels, insulated from 'partyocracy. I wrote an introductory on MEGA in kafila.org, but I would suggest all to read
Lastly, my knowledge of Marx and Marxism (Leninism etc) is journalistic, not at all profound.
Sankar Ray Know More >
__._,_.___
****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration:
Call For Articles:
http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68
http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585
****************************************************
VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/
****************************************************
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
-Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe
__,_._,___
Monday, November 4, 2013
Re: [mukto-mona] Leninism is no Marxism
I agree with most of what you said and appreciate the spirit behind it even more.
When I think about him – I see a man, who most people probably call Malaun, and has very little rights, and cannot even dare to say whatever he really wants to say. He is probably watching his back 24/7. Yet, he hates America, where most people can live relatively free, without fear of blatant religious persecution. It does not make sense to me.
>>>>>>>>> I think member Das is probably one of the most opinionated person in this forum. I have rarely seen him shying away from saying what is in his mind. Personally I have disagreed with most of what he says here but I have NEVER seen him watching his back in fear of his opinion.
-----Original Message-----
The whole episode with Dr. Kamal Das is disturbing to me. He hates American and left USA because it has a pressure-cooker society. His wise choice was - to go back to Bangladesh in search of freedom.
When I think about him – I see a man, who most people probably call Malaun, and has very little rights, and cannot even dare to say whatever he really wants to say. He is probably watching his back 24/7. Yet, he hates America, where most people can live relatively free, without fear of blatant religious persecution. It does not make sense to me.
While I was in Mount Sinai Medical University, I was a member of the selection committee of the residency program. We were interviewing for new medical residents for the department. One of the doctors came from Bangladeshi Muslim family. She did not hide her heritage even during her interview; I gave her high marks for that. When the interview was over, we all met in the conference room for the final selection. To my utter surprise, I found that everybody else has given her a title of "Princes" instead of good score. I learned something from this incidence.
Jiten Roy
On Sunday, November 3, 2013 10:11 AM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote:
"As the proverb says, "New converts sing hymns louder", you are a perfect example of a new convert."
His other choice would have been to stay back in Bangladesh and live like a protected species with no guarantee of free speech or security. In the US, he has probably more rights than he would ever had in any other places. I think he is a good convert with a great cause.
"I speak for the trees, for the trees have no tongues."
On Saturday, November 2, 2013 7:40 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
"Trilok"- Ain't the word "Tilok"?
On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 12:29 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
My observation is from my own life experiences. I do not usually form opinion based on other peoples' opinions. I am not here to convince anyone, either. My observation of American Society for 30+ years leads me to conclude that one of the reasons, among many others, for the growth of economic underclass in America is multiculturalism.
The bottom line is we need to be acceptable to others wherever we work. This means, we have to give up certain characteristics and adopt some new characteristics. This is how we become a part of the melting-pot. This is valid only for the first generation of immigrants; second generation will learn on their own.
Jiten Roy
On Saturday, November 2, 2013 12:19 PM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
I am living in the American multi-culturalism for 30 years, you are not.
>>>>>>>> Didn't you say that multi-culturism causing "Americans" to accept food stamp (..)? So what gives (If you do not understand the question,kindly ask your kids and they will translate it for you) ?
-----Original Message----- How dare you preach against multiculturalism? How did U. S. A. come into present shape. Read history and find out. Return the Spanish territory to its rightful owners. English was made the Official Language after it won in the Senate by one vote against the German. What language do your family members speak? Bangla or Banglish?
On Friday, November 1, 2013 9:52 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
Having the dream of growing reach is not essentially American. It is universal. Those who initiated Boston Tea Party wanted their fare share in the British Parliament with a larger Government. The Republican "Tea Party" men today are trying to fool the American people by pretending to be the defenders of independence. You may be convinced about their ideology and join the losers. That is your choice.
The cause of deterioration of American Society is wrongly diagnosed by you. It is their dependence on the Military-Industrial complex or for that matter dependence on Big corporate culture. May be you or your children would witness Marx's prediction come true in the great land called United States of America.On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 4:44 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
"that society is now the envy of the rest of the world." - it was probably so about five decades ago. Presently, in the quality of public life index, the Americans are not in the top ten list. – K. Das
Multiculturalism has changed the social psyche. Millions of people now believe they deserve government benefits; this was not the case a few decades ago. People used to feel ashamed to accept any government help. Very few would accept food stamps. Now, about 100 million people receive food stamp; people even hide their actual income to seek food stamp. It's not a taboo any longer. This explains the lower standard of living.
"And lastly, if you have no problem with tea party mentality, you are suffering from severe identity crisis. You have come to that land hundreds of years after that incident. " – K. Das
I do not know what identity crisis has to do with Tea-Party mentality. Tea-Party mentality means smaller government mentality; I support that. That's all. What that has to do with identity crisis.
What is one's identity, anyway? Are you trying to say – someone coming from a poor country should not have American dreams? Have you heard the story of Steve Jobs, the founder of the Apple Empire? He was dirt poor in his early life; Bill Gates did not start from a rich background either. These people show how – anybody can think rich and be rich; it has nothing to do with identity.
You must be suffering from the depressive Marxist mentality?
Jiten Roy
On Thursday, October 31, 2013 9:07 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
"If you think this change will install full-fledged Marxist Socialism in the Industrial Societies, you could be wrong." - I have never thought so, or preached it. Marxist Socialism never was implemented in any country. Some Orwellian pigs came to power preaching it and could not sustain in it lacking popular participation.
And lastly, if you have no problem with tea party mentality, you are suffering from severe identity crisis. You have come to that land hundreds of years after that incident. Though that incident occurred to demand reservation in the British Parliament, the ultra right of the Republicans are antidemocratic in every bit of their action and, lacking foresight, actually digging their own grave. On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 5:31 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dr. Das,
Of course I can see some socialist principles are creeping into the Industrial Societies. As I told before - society needs to balance these two extreme systems. If you think this change will install full-fledged Marxist Socialism in the Industrial Societies, you could be wrong. Don't forget so quickly, Capitalism is also creeping into the Socialist Russian and Chinese societies.
On Thursday, October 31, 2013 6:49 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
"Mr. Ray, Marx wrote - socialism will not come without revolution to the extent of destruction and dissolution of the society."- Citation please.
World has seen no more violent a change than the American Civil War. What is your opinion about it Dr. Roy? Besides, have you heard about Fabian Socialism? Don't you think, it has already creeped in most of the Industrial Societies? There is no turning back. With your tea party mindset of Republican Party variety, your observation about socialism is totally wrong.On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 4:55 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
Mr. Ray said:
Marx wrote in a polemic in 1844, "Without revolution socialism cannot be viable. It needs this political act to the extent that it needs destruction and dissolution."
World has seen and known revolutions in Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, etc. causing destruction and dissolution of existing societies in the name of installing socialism around the world. In the process – at least hundred million lives were lost. After all these destruction and death, the socialist empire crumbled, without counter-revolution by the capitalist system; no life was lost; no destruction and dissolution of anything needed either; socialism crumbled on its own weight. That's how it's supposed to be. Yet, Mr. Ray still finds prospect of real Marxist socialism in this day and age.
Mr. Ray, Marx wrote - socialism will not come without revolution to the extent of destruction and dissolution of the society. Are you suggesting people will go for another revolution to install real Marxist society, much like the previous ones, and millions of people will sacrifice lives again? If not, what are we going to do with Marxism today?
Jiten Roy
On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 6:31 PM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:
"The point is to remember Marx's motto, taken from Descartes: De omnibus dubitandum (doubt everything)." - Descartes might have got the idea from Buddhist dictum which says, "Doubt everything even if I told you."
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 9:05 AM, Sankar Kumar Ray <sankarray62@rediffmail.com> wrote:
I thought I would refrain myself from the debate about whether Marxism is valid or not.Sadly enough, most of the participants to whom I am too very grateful assume that Marxism has failed. This is a grave misjudgement. From Plekhanov to Lenin-Trotsky, from Stalin to Mao, and from Gramsci-Lucas to Althusser one finds distortion of Marx. Marxism is yet to be applied , except partially in Paris Commune and Spanish Revolution (1930s).
Publishing Marx and Engels after 1989: The fate of the MEGA
Get your own FREE website, FREE domain & FREE mobile app with Company email.
Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional