Shalom!
From: Mahbub Kamal <mahbubk2002@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 2, 2013 5:14 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Angola Bans Islam, Destroys Mosques
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2013 5:33:32 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Angola Bans Islam, Destroys Mosques
Shalom!
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Nov 30, 2013 2:31 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Angola Bans Islam, Destroys Mosques
Sent from my iPhone
With due respect, you are probably aware that whatever we say here are mostly symbolic. As far as I know you do not have the power to influence Angola or Saudi Arabia.
The major difference between Angola and Saudi Arabia is there are NO native non-Muslim in Saudi Arabia. However there are NATIVE Angolans who are Muslims. They have no where else to go but to stay in THEIR country.
Saudi Arabia considers itself as "Vatican". So they set up the bar higher than rest of the Islamic countries. Except Saudi Arabia I do not know of any country which prohibits establishing religious temples or churches in them. There are Muslim countries (UAE, Turkey etc) which donated land for building churches. But they do not make news and you do not know about them.
I understand your position but it is not an informed one. It is based on fictional perception. However I respect it as "Your opinion".
Here is a little bit about this topic...
Muslim Community in Madagascar Donate Land for Christian Church
The Living Church Foundation reports that members of the Muslim community in a suburb of Ambilobe, Madagascar, have donated land to the Anglican Diocese of Antsiranana in the Province of the Indian Ocean. "I could not believe my ears," the Bishop of Antsiranana, the Rt. Rev. Roger Chung, said in an official release published by the telecommunications department of the Anglican Communion Office. "But God's ways are not our ways, and His thoughts are not our thoughts, says the Book of Isaiah."
Source: http://www.breakingchristiannews.com/articles/display_art.html?ID=2222
My two cents...
Shalom!
-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:36 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Angola Bans Islam, Destroys Mosques
I did not say – religious discrimination anywhere is ethical or right; not at all. In fact, my ethical mind tells me that - I cannot give a pass for such discrimination in one country, for whatever reason, and object it in other countries. That's discrimination, in my view. Therefore, I cannot blame or protest religious discrimination in Angola. I have no right to do so. I hope you will understand my position now. And, please do not bring other ancillary issues into this discussion. That's just distraction.
You said, "My point is: Angola has banned Islam, so another country will have to retaliate by banning Christianity---that cannot be a wise step."
Now, I can agree with you - this is an extreme reaction, but not totally inappropriate in the realm of appropriate reactions.
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Tuesday, December 3, 2013
Re: [mukto-mona] Angola Bans Islam, Destroys Mosques
Exactly these are "Saudi" human rights issues. Not exactly Islamic issues. There are more besides what have been mentioned by members. Thanks for sharing your experience with us.
-----Original Message-----
I lived in Kingdom of Saudi Arabia for about 3 years. No one except Sunni Muslims are permitted to practice religion in public (Shias are allowed to pray in mosques, but are not allowed to observe anything exclusive to Shia belief). I remember seeing official notice saying it is illegal to observe Chrismas publicly. Even Shias are not allowed to bring out Ashura processions, I heard that immediately after Gulf War Saudi forces fired from Helicopter on such a procession in Qatif (a Shia majority town), that is the only time Shias dared to bring out a procession. are
Even Sunnis from other sects are not allowed to observe other rituals which are not sanctioned under Wahabi/Salafi/Hambli sects. For example anyone will end up in jail if they try to observe Eid-E-MiladunNabi or Shab-e-barat in public or try to held a Milad Mahfil.
I lived in Eastern province, people were relatively tolerant (about 1/3rd were Shia), police would not look inside compounds to see if someone is observing Chrismas or puja, in Central province (the land of Wahabi 'Ikhwan'they might even do so - except for American compounds).
From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
I am not Saudi. As far as I know Hindus, Christians etc are permitted to practice religion but not allowed to build permanent structures (all other Muslim countries do allow that as well). It is an Saudi only exception, so maybe a expert in Saudi Arabia can explain it better. I am only sharing what others told me about it.
-----Original Message-----
I am not sure Mr. QR is justifying Saudi role in prohibiting religious activities of the non-Muslims in Saudi Arabia. I hope he is not. A Hindu goes to Saudi Arabia, say, for two years. Does he have to forego his religious needs during his stay in SA? What a primitive logic! It is shameless too.
In fact, my ethical mind tells me that - I cannot give a pass for such discrimination in one country, for whatever reason, and object it in other countries. That's discrimination, in my view. Therefore, I cannot blame or protest religious discrimination in Angola. I have no right to do so.
>>>>>>>>>>> Very interesting way of looking at things.
According to the chairman of the new parish, Diogene Mahavavy, the Muslim community donated the land after becoming aware of the difficulties that the Anglicans were having in obtaining a plot of land on which to build a new suburban church.
The people of Ambilobe are from the Antakarana tribe, which is predominantly Muslim, Mr. Mahavavy said, but evangelization in the region has resulted in many families having both Muslim and Christian members; mutual support is common.
@ Mr. Chakraborty:
I want to stick to the broader issue – which is - religious discrimination; everything else stems from it.
The world has lost the right to take moral high ground on religious discrimination issue thousands of years back.
Jiten Roy
On Friday, November 29, 2013 6:27 PM, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
As a matter of fact my position should have been clear from my first post in which I talked about possible disastrous effect of the chain reaction of retaliation by competing countries by banning rival religions.
Your 'appropriate' judgment seems to be unethical. Angola has taken away the religious rights of some groups within Angola. Would it not be unethical for another country to take away the religious rights of some other groups? Are you not justifying the demolition of temples in Bangladesh as a reaction to demolition of the Babri Mosque in India?
Sent from my iPhone
Yes, Mr. Chakraborty, now I can understand your point. You have generalized your view in the last post. Dr. Bain promotes generalized views like, "Barbaric acts should not be retaliated with barbaric acts," and you support it. Both of you identify something as barbaric act, but do not support similar reaction to that. This is exactly Gandhism, whether you realize it or not.
Saudi Arabia has practiced religious discrimination for thousands of years, and the world has looked the other way, which has resulted the spreading of religious discrimination (virus) in other Muslim majority countries too. If you think clearly you will have no difficulty to see the host country for this virus. I am puzzled by the fact that you guys have so much difficulty to see this reality. And, in that line of thinking, I judge Angolan action as extreme, but not inappropriate.
Jiten Roy
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