We will find thousands of religious academically high achievers in all religions, who talk total nonsense when it comes to discussions about the religion. It is because - they have developed firm believes in their minds, most of which came to them through childhood brainwashing. Most religious people want to keep them above logic. In other words, they want to protect and preserve those thoughts. As a result, they will not delve into logical discussion about those believes. As a result, they can donate money to a Madrassa, knowing full well that - these institutions are not producing good citizens. .
Similarly, Hindus spend inordinate amount of money worshipping idols in the name of religion, but, they will often hesitate to spend money for humanitarian causes. You will find thousands of people in the idol worshipping programs, but you will face hard time to gather even 100 people for a humanitarian cause.
In general, people spend huge resource, time, and effort to conform to the nonsensical religious acts. "Proper education" could have solved this issue, but it is not available, partly due to the resistance from the religious establishment. This establishment is very strong; even absolute autocracy, such as communism, failed in the combat against religious establishments.
Jiten Roy
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 3/23/14, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: A country gets the leaders it deserves
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, March 23, 2014, 10:39 AM
Of
course, Om Shanti, PBUA (peace be upon all), and
similar!
There are 7 billion
people with 7 billion personalities, and no two people
really think exactly the same way. However, I think to me A.
Rahaman probably would be more similar than Q. Rahman;
although the former was quite a bit of emotional about his
adoptive nationality and did some undue criticism against me
a few months back.
As for Q. Rahman, I am
pleased that he has expressed appreciations for a lot of my
thoughts in this forum. However, he is too servile to his
religion, and at times his common sense gets lost when it
comes to his religion.
Now, let us get to some
point of real discussion, as opposed to individual
personalities.
When a
person with a Ph.D. degree donates money to a madrasa or to
establish a mosque, to me, he does a great disservice to
humanity. He does not really help uplift the poor and
illiterate souls that have gotten the Muslim identity
through birth and childhood brainwash. Rather, he creates a
bunch of idiots, many of whom grow up to hate a lot of good
people who happen to be non-Muslims. I am very much
frustrated with this kind of high academic
achievers.
I have
seen a lot of academically qualified people who talk about
their religion and prophet in ways that are of no better
quality than how the average illiterate person of my
village does about his religion. They are so religious, yet
they talk as if giving and taking bribe is an acceptable way
of life. With this kind of idiots in the society, it is not
surprising that corruption and irresponsibility are endemic
in Bangladesh.
Well, that is all for
now,
Sukhamaya
Bain
=====================================
From: ANISUR RAHMAN
<anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com>
To:
mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March
22, 2014 2:53 PM
Subject: Re:
[mukto-mona] Re: A country gets the leaders it deserves
What is
the matter with you, guys? Everybody is agreeing with
everybody. My little email was meant to mock the herd
mentality of Bangladeshi people who keep electing and
submitting to the leadership of Hasina and Khaleda Zia. Now
I see that everyone agrees. How can we conduct any
meaningful discussion and debate if there is no dissent
among us? Should we pack up and go home, saying that there
is no dissent and peace has broken out?
- Anis
Rahman
From: QR
<qrahman@netscape.net>
To:
mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 22
March 2014, 14:31
Subject: Re:
[mukto-mona] Re: A country gets the leaders it deserves
My frustration is more
with people who have big academic qualifications, yet
are unworthy of being called
"educated."
>>>>>>>>>>
Boy! you sounded like me here.
I have been saying this all along. We are
not "Value" driven people but driven by our
favorite party. WE should get out of this culture of
protecting "My thug/my party".
As people we should stand up
against all thugs, gangs, violences. Until we learn to do
so, all of us will be some kind of victims one of these
days.
Shalom!
-----Original
Message-----
From: Sukhamaya Bain
<subain1@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona
<mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent:
Fri, Mar 21, 2014 4:38 pm
Subject:
[mukto-mona] Re: A country gets the leaders it deserves
Indeed, "a country gets the leaders it
deserves." I also agree with Dr. A. Rahman that
Bangladesh deserved the leaders that it got over the years.
I doubt though if they are really happy with such leaders.
May be a lot people are happy in a perverted way;
and in many instances a lot of people probably
have given up to the frustrating reality.
Because I
believe that "a country gets the leaders it
deserves", I am generally not a big critic of
any leader. My
frustration is more with people who have big
academic qualifications, yet are unworthy of being called
"educated."
Sukhamaya Bain
==============================================================
From: ANISUR RAHMAN
<anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 21,
2014 4:34 AM
Subject: Re:
[mukto-mona] Re: Meeting with Ambassador
(This is AR, not QR)
I fully concur
with the democratic values QR has highlighted below. In a
democratic system one can disagree, often fundamentally, but
that disagreement should not turn to aggressive behaviour,
abusive language or violence. In Bangladesh, people and, in
particular, our politicians don't appreciate this
fundamental pre-requisite for democracy. Khaleda Zia had
been lodging 'movement' ('andolon') burning
cars, buses, trucks etc and in the process killing people
before the recent election to bring down the government by
force. She must have learnt it from Sheikh Hasina who said
in 1996 that the then government must be brought down by
force. Now Hasina has turned from poacher to
gamekeeper!
I
am not criticising Sheikh Hasina or Khaleda Zia singularly.
I am criticising the system which brought out such
despicable characters into the so-called Bangladeshi
'democratic system'. As it is said, a country gets
the leaders it deserves. Probably Bangladesh deserves such
leaders and people are happy with them.
-
Anis Rahman
From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 20
March 2014, 9:42
Subject: Re:
[mukto-mona] Re: Meeting with Ambassador
(This is QR talking not Dr. Rahman from UK)
I am glad member Roy's
open response. I agree with most of it and wish to add
couple more ideas ....
In
our country you can support whatever political group you
wish to support. I respect that. At the same time if someone
else do support their choice of parties, you should show
some level of maturity, tolerance and respect for that
choice. I have been with this forum for a while. I am not
actively involved with any parties but have some opinions
that does not always follow any party line. I was shocked to
see how nasty people can get with even symbolic differences
in opinions.
I mean my
likes or dislikes does not amount to much in our country but
what the hell happen to democratic culture?
With your response, it is
clear that the right group
is NOT apolitical (As claimed earlier) but they
"Time" their complaints to benefit their political
party. So even if violence take place before election, they
will remain quiet. I imagine will do the opposite if
the other party is involved.
The whole idea of any human right group is to
be the spokesperson for that group. WHENEVER any violence or
persecution takes place they should speak up right there!!
I am glad to see how
common people stood up against violence in Ramu and post
election violence in couple places in our country. They did
not want to "Time"" their response to offer
political benefit.
I believe - this is an
ominous signal for the country. It shows that the country of
Bangladesh is drifting towards Pakistani line of politics of
getting rid of religious minorities from the land, and
Awami League is slowly subscribing to that line of politics
as well.
Pakistan in Bangladesh is left for the
history books only. We broke up and moving forward with our
own ways. Today I wish to see a Bangladesh who will look
after it's own interest over Pakistan or India or any
other foreign country.
certainly as neighbors we can learn from
mistakes in India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan etc but still bring
up Pakistan in political arena does not work anymore.
As you know – Pakistan has
gotten rid of religious minorities from that country. What
did they gain? They have become the world's factory of
religious extremists. I hate to see Bangladesh following
that route.
>>>>>>>>>> I agree
that we have to stand up against extremists. At the same
time we should remember to respect common religious people
who do not support violence or politics of religion. As said
it before, we should have a simple ideal. Which is to stand
up against violence in politics. It does not matter which
party is the sponsor, we have to reject violence and
injustice.
Shalom!
-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To:
mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Mar 19, 2014 6:55 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Meeting with
Ambassador
Dr. Rahman,
Criticism
is an important tool of advancement, but it is only useful
if you use it wisely. If you don't, it could be
detrimental to your goal.
I
see BNP as a center-left political party, much like Muslim
League, and Awami League as a centrist progressive party. In
my view, religious minorities have no other option, but to
support Awami League in the election season. That's the
reality, and the reason behind my objection to your
criticism of Awami League before the general election.
You criticize Awami League for
corruptions, which I do not disagree. But, I have much more
at stake than corruption. I have to think about existence
and survival as a religious minority in Bangladesh;
corruption is the least of my problem, especially when it is
a common phenomenon in both parties; probably much more
prevalent in BNP. As a result, I thought - it was not
the time for criticism of Awami League, as it would only
help BNP. That was my reason for criticism of you at the
time.
Time to criticize
Awami League is now. They need to change their political
equation. Based on the recent attacks on religious
minorities in Hazarihat, Ramu, Pabna, etc., where Awami
cadres took part, it is clear that Awami League is also
moving slowly to the left of center, and it is becoming
Awami Muslim League. In that case, there will be no
difference left between BNP and Awami League, as we came to
know. This is what we have said to Ambassador Mozena
also.
I believe - this is an
ominous signal for the country. It shows that the country of
Bangladesh is drifting towards Pakistani line of politics of
getting rid of religious minorities from the land, and Awami
League is slowly subscribing to that line of politics as
well.
As you know – Pakistan has
gotten rid of religious minorities from that country. What
did they gain? They have become the world's factory of
religious extremists. I hate to see Bangladesh following
that route.
Jiten
Roy
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 3/19/14, ANISUR RAHMAN <anisur.rahman1@btinternet.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re:
Meeting with Ambassador
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, March 19, 2014, 4:38 AM
First of
all, I am not the Mr. Rahman that Jiten Roy
addresses below.
I am Dr. A. Rahman from
England. I needed to identify myself
at the
outset, lest Jiten Roy gets confused and start
directing fire at random.
It
is in Bengali culture to contradict and
disagree even when
there is nothing
contentious. Undeniably minorities in
Bangladesh, or even in East Pakistan, had been
treated
disgracefully and often violently,
which no civilised
society can condone. The
governments of the day had either
ignored
and overlooked or aided and abetted with the
perpetrators. The BNP/Jamaat had been carrying
out religious
atrocities for a long time and
the AL were no angels. There
had been
undeniable evidence of AL involvement in burning,
looting Hindu properties before the recent
elections. When I
raised this despicable
behaviour of the ruling party, Jiten
Roy
immediately branded me as a BNP supporter. I wrote many
articles against BNP/Jamaat's religious
excesses and
criminality, but Jiten Roy
ignored them all or was totally
oblivious.
However, he seems to have got now a rational,
realistic view of the situation existing in
Bangladesh. All
political parties, to a
greater or lesser extent, are guilty
of
religious misdemeanour and criminality.
I
agree with Jiten Roy that truth (or rather
facts) must be
brought out. But one must be
careful about what one calls
truth. For
example, to Jamaatis the existence of God and His
divine messages are the truths. To Narendra
Modi Hindu
chauvinism
is the truth. So the establishment of truth is
not as clear cut as it seems. But we must bring
out facts
and try to show to the world what
is fair and what is not.
-
Anis Rahman
------------------------------------
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