That proves my point that Mr. Hannan is totally ignorant of history.
When al Tawba was revealed as a part of Sura Anfal, Muslims were not
majority even in Medina. or Yatrib as it was then called. Then,
however, the Sura was split. Notice that Al Tawba does not begin with
Bismillah.
On 10/30/11, S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com> wrote:
> Mr Kamal Das does not know Quran or its interpretation correctly. If he
> reads a book only to find fault, none can help him. He says" According to
> Sura al-Tawba, the non -muslims are offered to chose between death or
> submission"
>
>
>
> Any body can see any Tafsir of the Quran, the context, the application of
> the verse .The fact that that about ten percent were Christians , Jews,
> Sabians in Muslim empire during the Khilafat is enough proof that Mr Das is
> not right.
>
>
>
> Shah Abdul Hannan
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Kamal Das
> Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 9:35 AM
> To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Bangladesh Wins Freedom
>
>
>
>
>
> This guy, q.a. rahman, may be cryptic! According to Sura al-Tawba, the non
> muslims are offered to chose between death or submission.
>
> On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 5:51 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> My "Personal" opinion is Islam has a solution for all people ( Even those
> who do not practice Islam). Over the history Islam has shown how they can be
> protected without sacrificing ideals of Islam. ----- Q. Rahman
>
>
>
> You have cited some good verses from the Quran and Hadith. They are all well
> and good. But, in your statement above, you said non-believers can be
> "protected" without sacrificing ideals of Islam. This statement says it all.
> Non-believers are your sacred property (Dhimmi) and you are supposed to
> protect them as you protect your other properties. This is the Quranic
> prescription for non-believers. Is this how you intend to give them their
> birth-rights?
>
>
>
> As you know - Quran and other religious scriptures are full of
> contradictions. One verse says - do this, the other verse says don't do
> that. As a result, people get opportunity to use religious scriptures to
> their advantages to justify their heinous acts. Unfortunately, that's what
> is happening in this world. But, with your naivety, you will not be able to
> fathom it. You are trying to mold your arguments to fit your belief.
> Practicality is quite different.
>
>
>
> Contradictions in the religious scriptures are quite natural phenomena, in
> my view, since these books were written over a long period by people with
> second/third/fourth/.. hand knowledge of the actual facts. As a result, they
> are not as precise as you believe them to be. I say - take these points into
> consideration as you read your religious scriptures. I take these points
> into consideration while reading my religious books. The bottom line is -
> even though these books are not written by God, there are many hidden
> treasures in those books.
>
>
>
> Jiten Roy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
> To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 3:43 PM
>
>
> Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Bangladesh Wins Freedom
>
>
>
>
>
> In any case, Jogen Mondal being foolish or not, the Hindus that he
> represented, and the other Hindus and non-Hindus that he did not necessarily
> represent, had a birthright on the land. For Bangladesh to be an honorable
> and decent nation, it necessarily has to separate Islam from the business of
> the state, and treat all religious groups with equal respect.
>
>
>
>>>>>>>> While I agree with the spirit of the statement you made ( Hindus
> have a birth right to be treated with fairness in Bangladesh). I don't think
> Islam is the problem here. Rather some greedy Muslims. It may amuse you to
> know that, Allah (SWT) even spoke about hypocrites who speak about Allah
> (SWT) and Islam but ONLY work for his/her own interest in several places.
>
> My "Personal" opinion is Islam has a solution for all people ( Even those
> who do not practice Islam). Over the history Islam has shown how they can be
> protected without sacrificing ideals of Islam. Let me share a verse from The
> noble Qur'an...
>
> And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see
> therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture. Then woe to
> those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from
> Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their
> hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.
>
> [ Source: The noble Qur'an (English by Yusuf Ali) chapter 2:78-79
> <http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/quran/verses/002-qmt.php> ]
>
> Also Hadith Al-Qudsi spoke about hypocrites who claims to be Muslims but
> Allah (SWT) knows what is in their hearts..
>
>
>
> Hadith Qudsi 6:
>
>
>
> On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said:
> I heard the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) say:
>
>
>
> The first of people against whom judgment will be pronounced on the Day of
> Resurrection will be a man who died a martyr. He will be brought and Allah
> will make known to him His favours and he will recognize them. [ The
> Almighty] will say: And what did you do about them? He will say: I fought
> for you until I died a martyr. He will say: You have lied - you did but
> fight that it might be said [of you]: He is courageous. And so it was said.
> Then he will be ordered to be dragged along on his face until he is cast
> into Hell-fire.
>
>
>
> [Another] will be a man who has studied [religious] knowledge and has taught
> it and who used to recite the Quran. He will be brought and Allah will make
> known to his His favours and he will recognize them. [The Almighty] will
> say: And what did you do about them? He will say: I studied [religious]
> knowledge and I taught it and I recited the Quran for Your sake. He will
> say: You have lied - you did but study [religious] knowledge that it might
> be said [of you]: He is learned. And you recited the Quran that it might be
> said [of you]: He is a reciter. And so it was said. Then he will be ordered
> to be dragged along on his face until he is cast into Hell-fire.
>
>
>
> [Another] will be a man whom Allah had made rich and to whom He had given
> all kinds of wealth. He will be brought and Allah will make known to his His
> favours and he will recognize them. [The Almighty] will say: And what did
> you do about them? He will say: I left no path [untrodden] in which You like
> money to be spent without spending in it for Your sake. He will say: You
> have lied - you did but do so that it might be said [of you]: He is
> open-handed. And so it was said. Then he will be ordered to be dragged along
> on his face until he is cast into Hell-fire.
>
> It was related by Muslim (also by at-Tirmidhi and an-Nasa'i).
>
> { Source:Forty Hadith Qudsi <http://islamworld.net/docs/40.html> }
>
>
> I am only sharing these Islamic scriptures, so you understand that our Maker
> knows our nature no matter how much some of us tries to hide it from the
> mass. He also gave clear instructions about hypocrites and those who abuse
> the name Islam to promote their own interests instead of serving humankind.
>
> The bottom line is you are welcome to agree or disagree. However in order to
> judge Islam ( Or any religion for that matter), we need to study authentic
> history and scriptures of that religion. Just like we cannot study
> Christianity by looking at Hitler ( We need to study the Bible).
>
> Unfortunately most people in Bangladesh are not well educated about Islam.
> They often follow some social practices and superstitions thinking it is
> Islam but often we see there is a difference between practice and what Islam
> says.
>
> While I do understand where you are coming from ( From your experience with
> religion). I look at it a little differently. I think we (Muslims of
> Bangladesh) are often bad examples of Islam. Therefore, it would be fair to
> judge Islam based of it's authentic teaching than taking some political
> organizations as a representative of this global faith. Lastly I like to
> share what prophet Muhammad (PBUH) sanctioned for Christians of his time.
> Which will show that, even 1400 years ago Islam gave rights and privileges
> to non-Muslims along with Muslims.
>
> PROPHET MUHAMMAD'S
> CHARTER OF PRIVILEGES TO CHRISTIANS
> LETTER TO THE MONKS OF ST. CATHERINE MONASTERY
>
>
>
> In 628 C.E. Prophet Muhammad (s) granted a Charter of Privileges to the
> monks of St. Catherine Monastery in Mt. Sinai. It consisted of several
> clauses covering all aspects of human rights including such topics as the
> protection of Christians, freedom of worship and movement, freedom to
> appoint their own judges and to own and maintain their property, exemption
> from military service, and the right to protection in war.
>
> An English translation of that document is presented below.
>
>
>
> This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who
> adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.
> Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because
> Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that
> displeases them.
> No compulsion is to be on them.
> Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from
> their monasteries.
> No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry
> anything from it to the Muslims' houses.
> Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey
> His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against
> all that they hate.
> No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight.
> The Muslims are to fight for them.
> If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place
> without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to
> pray.
> Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from
> repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants.
> No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day
> (end of the world).
>
>
>
> This charter of privileges has been honored and faithfully applied by
> Muslims throughout the centuries in all lands they ruled.
>
>
>
> [ Source: <http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/charter1.html> TOLERANCE IN
> ISLAM ]
>
>
>
>
> Shalom!!
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thu, Oct 27, 2011 5:04 am
> Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Bangladesh Wins Freedom
>
>
>
> The fact that Jinnah made Jogen Mondal a cabinet minister of Pakistan is
> evidence enough for me to accept that the latter's support was important for
> a bigger East Bengal to be included in Pakistan. If Jinnah was alive for a
> bit longer, chances are that the Hindus of East Bengal would not have gotten
> marginalized in their motherland as fast as they did. Although I believe
> that Jinnah's game of using Muslim brotherhood for his personal supreme
> leadership clout in a sovereign country (Pakistan) would have ultimately led
> Pakistan to what it is today.
>
>
>
> Indeed there are reasons for Hindus, especially the so-called scheduled
> caste Hindus, to be angry with Jogen Mondal. That is why I call him Jogen
> Chandal, even when I think that the caste system is the greatest stupidity
> in the Hindu religion/culture. I denigrate him, because he was foolish
> enough to fall for the false sense of security for his people in an absurd
> country that was being formed based mostly upon hatred. His foolishness got
> proven so fast that even he himself had to flee to India.
>
>
>
> In any case, Jogen Mondal being foolish or not, the Hindus that he
> represented, and the other Hindus and non-Hindus that he did not necessarily
> represent, had a birthright on the land. For Bangladesh to be an honorable
> and decent nation, it necessarily has to separate Islam from the business of
> the state, and treat all religious groups with equal respect.
>
>
>
> Sukhamaya Bain
>
>
>
> From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
> To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 5:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Bangladesh Wins Freedom
>
> "- a major portion of Bangladesh would have been with India without Jogen
> Mondal's vote."----Jiten Roy
>
>
>
> That's what we have heard from our parents and others during our childhood.
> Was Muslim League so stupid that they would let 'major portion' of Bengal go
> with India even if Jogen Mondal did not support Jinnah? What about
> Radcliffe's scissors that decidedly cut the map of Bengal almost
> illogically. Did Radcliffe really care much about what Jogen Mondal had
> done? I need more specific information to continue to believe the myth (or
> fact) that was injected into my head in my childhood.
>
> There are reasons for Hindus to be angry with Jogen Mondal. Capitalizing on
> the tension that prevailed in the relations between caste Hindus and
> scheduled caste Hindus, Jinnah was successful in having him on his side.
> Jinnah kept his promise. He made him a central minister. But irony is that
> he had to flee Pakistan and take shelter in a country for which he had not
> voted. We know Suhrawardy faced similar fate. Even there is a complaint that
> he was responsible for Kolkata riots and he did it in support of Jinnah's
> Two-Nation Theory. New facts are emerging to challenge the traditional
> history.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------
****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration:
Call For Articles:
http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68
http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585
****************************************************
VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/
****************************************************
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
-Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mukto-mona/
<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional
<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mukto-mona/join
(Yahoo! ID required)
<*> To change settings via email:
mukto-mona-digest@yahoogroups.com
mukto-mona-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
mukto-mona-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/