I think she is right. Tell me one good thing that was created by Madrassa education except learning something that has no value in modern life. What change did that education brought to Islamic countries? What invention did we make in last five hundred years? It is the modern knowledge cultivated by others serving us with all kinds of products and gizmos. We have become only buyers of manufactured goods and not creators of any damn thing except chanting God is great? And, how long can this go on?
-SD
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS
From: S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com>
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com; 'mukto-mona' <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 12:00 PM
Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] RE: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......
This is Farida Majid at her best. She wants banning of all Madrasas.What an extreme statement. No comment is needed .
Her Islam which she parades sometimes is a queer thing. She understands Islam more than all Ulama and other Islamic scholars.
Shah Abdul Hannan
From: alochona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:alochona@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Farida Majid
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:08 PM
To: mukto-mona
Subject: [ALOCHONA] RE: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:08 PM
To: mukto-mona
Subject: [ALOCHONA] RE: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......
Mr. Q Rahman gives us great wisdom from his 'religious' knowledge almost every time he posts. At some point one would thin that he is striving to be the greatest proselytizer of Islam. My question is: Did he acquire all this vast knowledge from Madrassah education that he received in the past? Does Mr. Rahman himself, or his sisters, brothers, cousins, friends and relatives send their children to Madrassahs for "authentic teachings of Islam"?
Unless the honest answer to the question is an unqualified YES Mr. Q Rahman is resorting to a false, malicious propaganda. The fact on the ground level is that for the benefit of future generations of Muslims in the subcontinent
Madrassahs should be BANNED from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh .
The traditional 'moktob' on Fridays that give 'ampara' lessons to little boys and girls at the local mosques in the village have been sufficient religious education for centuries. In the cities parents can send their children to a weekend 'diniyat' school or something to pick up skills to read the Qur'an. Parents can provide the needed religious education for their children (just as Mr. Rahman's parents did) without thousands and thousands and thousands of Madrassahs all over the country. The Muslims of Bangladesh are 'naturally' better quality Muslims than their berathars and sisters in the Kingdom of Jahiliya (otherwise known as Saudi Arabia ).
There should be proper Religious Seminaries or especial Madrassahs where Imams and Khadems of mosques should receive their education.
If you cannot see the politics behind the establishment of these educationally backward, harmful and useless madrassahs then you ARE part of the propaganda. This has nothing to do with religion.
Unless the honest answer to the question is an unqualified YES Mr. Q Rahman is resorting to a false, malicious propaganda. The fact on the ground level is that for the benefit of future generations of Muslims in the subcontinent
Madrassahs should be BANNED from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh .
The traditional 'moktob' on Fridays that give 'ampara' lessons to little boys and girls at the local mosques in the village have been sufficient religious education for centuries. In the cities parents can send their children to a weekend 'diniyat' school or something to pick up skills to read the Qur'an. Parents can provide the needed religious education for their children (just as Mr. Rahman's parents did) without thousands and thousands and thousands of Madrassahs all over the country. The Muslims of Bangladesh are 'naturally' better quality Muslims than their berathars and sisters in the Kingdom of Jahiliya (otherwise known as Saudi Arabia ).
There should be proper Religious Seminaries or especial Madrassahs where Imams and Khadems of mosques should receive their education.
If you cannot see the politics behind the establishment of these educationally backward, harmful and useless madrassahs then you ARE part of the propaganda. This has nothing to do with religion.
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
From: subimal@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 11:45:45 -0700
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......
From: subimal@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 11:45:45 -0700
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......
1. I will use the word "karma" as a religious or philosophical concept. The said word has very deep meanings.
2. Atheists (example, the Stalin era in the USSR ) may have agenda that can prompt them to kill and torture. I hope I have properly understood the meaning of the statement "Without communal agenda, atheists have no reason to abandon good karmas". Killings and torture by many "religious" dictators (example, Saddam) were or are not communally motivated. The holocausts that descended on the Jews (WW II) and Hindus (1971) were mostly communal in nature. In these two cases Hitler and Yahiya Khan were the villains.
3. Hatred, discrimination, persecution, and killing are rooted in scriptures. It depends on the ruler how he interprets and implements it. AL (I prefer using AL to BAL--it is my problem, Mr. Rahaman, as the sense of sin is in my mind as I am prejudiced with the word BAL) gave us a great constitution although there was hardly any atheists in that party. Nazibullah and Mollah Omar had diametrically opposite agenda---the former one's being far more progressive and humanitarian than that of the latter's. Even a Taliban member who fought against Soviet ocuupation does not want Taliban to come back to power with the same agenda (closing girls' school for example).
4. In my judgement (following Campbell ), both Islam and Hinduism originally were tribal in nature. Although the rituals have mostly remained triabal in nature (comparatively more dominating in Hinduism), both the religions are getting more and more universal. Given the multi-cultural, multi-racial, and multi-religious interactive and interdependent pluralistic societies, there is no way out. Isolated and closed societies are suicidal.
5. I do not believe in divine authorities. Every thing we see in scriptures are man made and were captured in the minds and hearts of the sages. Since they are man made and hence are bound to be time- and place-specific, only man is legitimately entitled to challenge, modify, and update them. I always emphasize on the word "reinterpretation". I find the concept of "reincarnation" or "Avatar" interesting and instructive. If we are afraid to challenge, reinterpret, and update, we are doomed to live a life that is not "modern". The concept of "Avatar" guarantees the progress of the society as you do not get stuck to a particular Avatar and successive Avatrs are supposed to be more and more progressive.
6. It does not matter when eating beef was forbidden, it is still a fact that to a practicing Hindu, the cow is sacred and eating beef is against his religion. I have seen many Hindus not following this religious edict thanks to the freedom and rationality that they use to break the barrier to enjoy the cheap resources of the world a little bit more. Christians in general are more open in this matter.
7. I am aware that Mr. Rahman is not advocation for implementing Islamic rule in Bangladeh. But I wnt to emphasize that I am dead against the so called "Islamic" rule in Bangladesh . I like 1972 constitution which has already been raped several times. I believe in the principle of "separation of the church from the state". Even I do not buy the idea that a state ( Bangladesh ) get pro-actively involved with an international organization (OIC) in declaring a city (Dhaka) as the capital (Dhaka) of a particular religious (Islamic) culture of a continent ( Asia ) for a particular year (1212). I am not aware of the terms of reference that Bangladesh will have to follow in case of capital of Islamic culture matter. In my opinion it should kept private and not a state affair. It should however be allright for the PM who happens to be the head of the government of a Muslim majority country to become the chief guest in any occasion related to this. But what can we do? Our dependence on the Islamic countries is still unlimited.
8. I fully agree that the improvemnt in quality of Islamic education will minimize the unhappy incidences like the one that has recently happened in a madrasa. Even a several decades ago Greek philosophies used to be taught in the madrasas of the subcontinent. I am not sure what they have now in the curriculum. Our governments have neither commitments nor resources to improve the system. They do not have the courage either to undertake such a program.
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2012 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2012 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......
the, ists, without communal agenda, have no reason to abandon good-karmas. Also, in my view, there is another class of people who serve God through good-deeds only, devoid of any religious ideology have no incentive to deviate from their good-karmas.
>>>>>>>>>> I am sure disorder in Bangladesh bothers you enough to write about it. It is the same for me. However some of your assumptions are probably based on observation not based on teachings of religion. Rightly you pointed out that without communal agenda, atheists have no reason to abandon good-karmas.
Guess you "Assumed" that religion dictates us to work against people of other faiths and no faiths. Judging by some so called religious parties I cannot blame you for such assumptions but that is NOT what Islam (As a Muslim I just want to talk about Islam in my post) is all about. Unlike most prominent faiths, Islam does have a Global outlook. The criminal laws are mostly same for people of all faiths. It does not favor Muslims over non-Muslims. In civil cases there are differences (Like laws of inheritance). The main problem is so called religious parties often focus on laws that favors their own ideologies (Frequently it has a magical relationship with going to power and grow influence in politics). Muslims cannot pick and chose laws of Allah (SWT). They should try their level best to practice as much as possible. Which includes respecting "Rights" (Haq) of other people. Islamic "Communal agendas" is mainly talking about one God (Not forcing others to this ideology but TALKING about), establish rights of all people, secure peace for the mass. As I mentioned in a recent post BAL was flexible about it's socialist agenda and it helped our country in a big way. We cannot be slaves of "Processes" only, we have to ensure we are following processes properly. For most Muslims in Bangladesh , we are largely "Tradition bound" not religion bound. Guess you can say the same about Hindus as well. As one Hindu scholar mentioned, there is nothing in scriptures of "Sanatana Dharma" prohibiting it's followers from consuming beef but it was a popular movement to "Respond" to Jainism. So Hindus adopted some of the theologies of Jains and stopped eating beef. I feel if we can improve the "Quality" of Islamic education in Bangladesh , it will make our country a better place to live. fortunately there are some bright people who are working hard in educating people about authentic teachings of Islam and hopefully positively impact our country. Shalom! -----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy < jnrsr53@yahoo.com > To: mukto-mona < mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sun, May 6, 2012 7:45 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] RE: Child Abuse under Islamic cover : Fire of hell is hotter .......
Communists and god-fearing people are ideologically driven people. They have done a lot of bad karmas (deeds) in this world, purely based on their ideological biases. Much more atrocities are being committed everyday by these people than those who only believe in good-deeds without ideological influences. Those who are ideological people are prone to distort the definition of good-deeds in favor of their ideological biases. When someone opposes or challenges their ideological doctrines, they will not hesitate to throw away good-deeds out of the window and try to make him/her conform to the doctrines at the cost of good-karmas. That's what happened to these innocent girls. Religious-communality is another example of it. Athe, ists, without communal agenda, have no reason to abandon good-karmas. Also, in my view, there is another class of people who serve God through good-deeds only, devoid of any religious ideology have no incentive to deviate from their good-karmas. I prefer these two groups of people much more than any ideological-slaves, pretending to be good-guys. Jiten Roy --- On Sat, 5/5/12, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
|
__._,_.___