| Where did I go wrong in my assertion? I said that ISI has instilled a sense of insecurity in the psyche of the people of Pakistan through an organized propaganda campaign of the imminent threat from India. This is to create a perpetual support and dependency on Military establishment. The threat from Indian aggression is the biggest reason why people of Pakistan feel secured with the Military establishment more than the democratic system. ISI campaign encompasses education, religious, social, and governmental establishments. To sustain the threat from India, there needs to be active military confrontations with India always; Kashmir is the sacrificial lamb ready for that. Also, Pakistan needs to align with the anti-Indian forces, which will keep the animosity between India and Pakistan alive. All these conditions favor military establishments, not democracy. Even politicians like Zulfikar Ali Bhutto used that fear-factor for political survival. There was no other choice left. Jiten Roy
--- On Thu, 3/21/13, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Breaking Up Is Not Hard to Do
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, March 21, 2013, 9:14 PM
Well, Dr. Roy is wrong in quite a few points here. ISI is not the main culprit behind brainwashing children, via regular school textbooks, to hate the non-Muslims. The garbage that they learn is not just hatred against a better neighboring country; it is also against the poor and powerless Hindu and other non-Muslim citizens of Pakistan. Benazir Bhutto and her father might have been beacons of democracy by the Pakistani standard, but they were not truly democratic minded. Benazir actually wrote something like a will for her son and husband to inherit the leadership of PPP! Her father was the villain of ditching democracy when he was against transferring power to the people's representative of Pakistan in 1971. There is a video on U-Tube, where he was saying that he liked the students because they had supported him; the concept of the young generation being the future of the nation did not come out of his mouth. He was all for power for himself, just like Jinnah, the biggest villain of the Indian sub-continent, was. As for Jamat/BNP, their stand against India is necessarily due to their hatred against non-Muslims. If they were not genuine hate-mongers, they could not have celebrated an election win by committing atrocities against non-Muslims (2001), nor could they express their anger against the death penalty for one of their leaders by committing mayhems against absolutely innocent, powerless and nonviolent non-Muslims (2013). Sukhamaya Bain ========================================= From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Breaking Up Is Not Hard to Do
| Yes, you are right, Dr. Bain, about brainwashing, and it is the business of ISI. The ghost of India haunts most Pakistanis. This is the result of the successful brain washing. More fear means more dependence on the military establishment. Most Pakistanis feel much safer under military rule than under a democratic system. Many intellectual and affluent Pakistanis are frustrated with the slow progress of the democratic system there. Benazir Bhutto was a popular and influential leader in the international arena. She was a threat to the military establishment of Pakistan. You know the result. Recently, affluent Pakistanis are leaving Pakistan; many of them are settling in India.
We still have the remnant of the ghost of India in Bangladesh; BNP/Jamat politics is all about the fear of that ghost.
Jiten Roy --- On Wed, 3/20/13, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Breaking Up Is Not Hard to Do
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 20, 2013, 10:54 PM
I meant to delete what I sent as blank to mukto-mona just a minute back. But let me make a quick comment anyway on Dr. Roy's observation.
I think the real problem for Pakistan now is its people, who have been getting brainwashed with stupidity and hatred for too long. From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Breaking Up Is Not Hard to Do
| The source of most troubles in Pakistan is their military Inter-Service Intelligence (ISI). Pakistan has been under the control of ISI ever since it's birth. It is the king of the land under the Military rule, which becomes a paper tiger in a democratic system. Therefore, ISI will never like democracy in Pakistan, and there is no easy way out of this system also. Just hoping for democracy will not do it. Bangladesh has shown one way out; Baluchistan is going towards that direction.
Jiten Roy
--- On Wed, 3/20/13, Ali Shaheen <alishaheen2010@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Ali Shaheen <alishaheen2010@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Breaking Up Is Not Hard to Do
To: "Shah Deeldar" <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>
Cc: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>, "pfc-friends@googlegroups.com" <pfc-friends@googlegroups.com>, "bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com" <bangladesh-progressives@googlegroups.com>, "india-unity@yahoogroups.com" <india-unity@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 20, 2013, 5:52 PM
If you think RAW and CIA are not, and were not, involved in Pakistan then there is not much more to be said. You did talk about genocide in Baluchistan and that is a valid concern. As is the killing of Shias and Christians. That Middle Ages thinking has been imported from Saudi Arabia - another reason why Pakistan would do better without foreign interference. And let's hope we can deal with the madrasahs in Bangladesh before we have a similar problem. BTW I hope you will be just as vocal about the genocide of Urdu speaking in Bangladesh and ask for justice for them in the war crimes tribunals too. You are right the Pakistani military is the elephant in the room - let's hope their next government does better. On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 11:04 PM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote: Some people might still be living in the middle ages and that is the problem! I am sure you know exactly who live in what centuries in current Bangladesh. What I understood from your post is that it were CIA, RAW and other heinous spy agencies have had some thing to gain for not letting Pakistani democracy to flourish. That is pure rubbish. If Srilankans and Indians could stick to their democracies, why could not Pakistanis? Other needs to be blamed because Pakistanis loved their strong military men?
Pakistan broke apart because it did not have the democracy. The history will probably repeat itself again with Balochis taking their own path to independence.
I am glad that PPP could fulfill their full term but I am not sure whether civilian government had the real power. Pakistani military is still the elephant in the room. That is why Indians and others would rather deal with Pakistani military than Pakistani civilian government
-SD
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS Oh dear - I see that this is a wider group than pfc friends, but that's okay. Are you sure you are not still in the 20th. century? :) Actually I am Bangladeshi and have moved on from the past which is why I don't hold any grudges against Pakistan. I assure you it is very liberating to free oneself of that anger, though it wasn't easy, and I had to do a lot of self-therapy to get there. Since it is now 42 years since the military government of Pakistan committed genocide in our homeland, I am more interested in peace in South Asia where we don't go around destabilizing each other. I am hoping for India-Pakistan-Bangladesh unity. Besides I don't like kicking anyone, even an old enemy when they are down, nor do I hold anything against the people of Pakistan who are just as decent as the people of India and Bangladesh. Peace! On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 10:34 PM, Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com> wrote: This is 21st century my friend! Time to grow up and walk! I hope you are not committing the same genocidal crimes in Balochistan as you have done in Bangladesh. Good luck with your democracy if you really got one? -SD
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." GBS Pakistan has just marked an important milestone by completing for the first time in its history, the full term of a democratically elected civilian government. Let's hope RAW and CIA give Pakistan and its people a chance to find their own way out of the many problems that have been created by foreign interference. And may the upcoming elections result in better leadership for Pakistan - Inshallah!
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