, let me ask you: do you think that under the alternative systems, common people are enjoying absolute freedom and can choose their career paths according to their talents?
>>>>>>>>>> In free capitalist countries they have a better chance of living up their potential than any communist countries.
"It is disagreement at fundamental level" probably means that you don't want to engage in a debate as you are afraid
>>>>>>>>>>
Nope. It means I do not have unlimited time and I have examined these alternatives (Spent a lot of time in thinking about it) and came to conclusion on it. I mean if anyone presents a compelling case for communism, I am ready to listen but so far have not seen it.
Obviously I respect the spirit of equality and fair treatment but this model failed all over the globe and there is NO historical evidences of success of such a system either.
Take care.
Shalom!
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:29 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] "Amra Sobai Raja Amader Aai Rajar Rajatteye …."
Some of the members (Member Subimol) knows about Nawab Faizun nisa of Comilla. Her good works is still there are her family members are still respected. There are other type of zamidars who thought being a leader is like getting a license to have fun for rest of their lives. Lot like many political leaders of Bangladesh. Which is not the definition of good leader.
During British colonial era many zamindars gave their lives fighting British colonial masters. Rabindranath was a member of Zamdari family as well. His wealth supported his talent and Bangla speaking people enjoy the results.
With due respect, I fundamentally disagree with communist ideology. I think it steals freedom from common people and misuse talent. Just imagine if Rabindranath was forced to sell tea or pick cotton!!
It is a disagreement at fundamental level and I do not wish to waste any of your precious time debating it.
Wishing Happy Thanks giving.
Shalom!
From: Sankar Kumar Ray <sankarray62@rediffmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 28, 2013 8:58 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] "Amra Sobai Raja Amader Aai Rajar Rajatteye …."
আপনার কথা শুনে ছোট বেলার একটা চলতি টিপ্পনির কথা মনে পড়ছে- এন পি পি - 'না পড়ে পন্ডিত'। অনিচ্ছা সত্বেও টিপ্পনির উল্লেখ করলাম। 'প্রমথ চৌধুরীর 'রায়তের কথা'র ভূমিকা থেকে একটিউদ্ধৃতি দিছি (সময় থাকলে আরো বেশী দিতে পারতাম, পারছিন। এ জন্যে দুঃখিত।
'এই জিনিসটার ( অর্থাৎ জমিদারী- শ . রা ) 'পরে আমার শ্রদ্ধার একান্ত অভাব। আমি জানি, জমিদার জমির জোঁক, সে প্যারাসাইট, পরাশ্রিত জীব। আমরা পরিশ্রম না ক'রে, উপার্জন না ক'রে, কোন দায়িত্ব গ্রহণ না করে, কোনো যথার্থ দায়িত্ব গ্র হণ না ক'রে ঐশ্বর্য ভোগের দ্বারা দেহকে অপটু ও চিত্তকে অলস করে তুলি। যাঁরা বীর্যের দ্বারা বিলাসের অধিকার লাভ করে, আমরা সে জাতের মানুষ নই।"
কিন্তু ঐ ভুমিকার সমালোচনাও (ইতিবাচক) প্রকাশিত হয়েছিল। অতুল গুপ্ত-লিখিত সমালোচনা অনেকেই পড়েছেন, কিন্তু আরেকটি গভীরতর সমালোচনা লিখেছিলেন ঋষিকেশ সেন 'বাঙলার কৃষকের কথা' ( বঙ্গবানী,আশ্বিন, ১৩৩১)।
From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
Sent: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 04:54:41
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] "Amra Sobai Raja Amader Aai Rajar Rajatteye …."
>>>>>>>>>> While I am not informed about how Rabindranath managed his estate but why it is our expectation that he had to denounce "Zamindari"? It is a simpleton way of looking at systems. Our history tells us bad zamindars and (Little less discussed) history also stored stories of good Zamindar.
We have discussed well known Zamindar Nawab Faizun nisa of Comilla (Laksham). Her good works and contribution is still respected and loved by people of that area. During 40's there were stories of farmers looting Zamiondar houses but there are stories of common people guarding Zamindar houses as well. I heard one such story of a Hindu Zamindar from Barisal district. He was loved by his people and they 9Mostly Muslims) made sure no one could harm that family. However looting also happened.
This is significant if we analyze current situation of Bangladesh. It seems too many people are eager to take credit but no so ready to shoulder responsibilities that comes with leadership.
Lastly, I am not arguing for feudalism but to remind myself and fellow members that, good leadership can come in different packages.
Shalom!
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Nov 25, 2013 8:02 pm
Subject: [mukto-mona] "Amra Sobai Raja Amader Aai Rajar Rajatteye …."
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Saturday, November 30, 2013
Re: [mukto-mona] “Amra Sobai Raja Amader Aai Rajar Rajatteye ….”
You "think" communism steals freedom from common people and misuse talent.
>>>>>>>>> It is not a matter of opinion. There are plenty of examples from last 100 years all over the world.
-----Original Message-----
Good works of a few zaminders are definitely appreciated. But it was inevitable for feudalism to surrender to capitalism as an essential part of a historical process.
You "think" communism steals freedom from common people and misuse talent. Just for the sake of argument, let me ask you: do you think that under the alternative systems, common people are enjoying absolute freedom and can choose their career paths according to their talents?
"It is disagreement at fundamental level" probably means that you don't want to engage in a debate as you are afraid that it may change your mind or you have the preconceived notion about the system and you are not going to change your mind any way.
On Friday, November 29, 2013 9:31 AM, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
There is a difference between good leadership and bad leadership.
-----Original Message-----
So, he could not denounce Zamindari. If that is true, he can't denounce feudalism.
-----Original Message-----
I know some people in the forum are trying to drag Rabindra Nath into Marxism because Rabindra Nath wrote:
"Amra Sobai Raja Amader Aai Rajar Rajatteye …."
Was he a Marxist?
In my view, the above quote is much more meaningful in the spiritual world, not in the context of the natural world affairs. No doubt - Rabindra Nath was conscious about the social circumstances, but he was much more conscious about the spiritual world. This is my personal opinion only.
Not being a scholar or even an avid reader of Tagore-literature, I can only express my own views on the meaning of the above quote. I think, he meant that – we are not insignificant in the kingdom of God; we are all parts of the king of the universe?
Why do I think so? As far as I know - Rabindra Nath was very much involved in the tax-collection efforts of the family Zamindari business. So, he could not denounce Zamindari. If that is true, he can't denounce feudalism. Otherwise, he may have meant to stand against the British Rajtantra; it's quite plausible. That's why - I believe, above quote has very little meaning in the context of the social revolution.
Jiten Roy
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