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Tuesday, January 31, 2012

Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Border Killings !!!



Friendship is based on selfless deeds. Therefore, to be exact, we have to analyze the border issue considering the interest of both sides. Otherwise, it will be sentimental analysis only.


>>>>>>>>> I agree. Well BD (Most of the time) gave away any interest it had in this "Mutual" border. Like the "Chit mahals" (Enclaves) were given away by Bangladesh 40 years ago and India is still struggling to figure out how to give back that should have been part of BD for last 40 years. Maybe we should give them 100 more years to ponder on that issue.

Having said that, I blame our spineless leaders who do not know how to negotiate a deal. From Shibhash Chandra Bose to Sheikh Mujibor Rahman knew how to deal with foreign powers without giving away vital interest of their countries. Today we lack in knowledge and confidence. Surely India is NOT our enemy but we have to learn to settle deals without sacrificing ALL of our life support systems (Like water) to India.

India needs to learn that, a prosperous and peaceful Bangladesh will only HELP India in the long run. As a large neighbor, it is India's duty to show leadership and find right balance while making deals. If India ever dream about getting respect from the world, it has to earn it's respect from the neighborhood first. So far India did not live up to it's potential. So it is still a very confused country where often promises made by heads of state CANNOT be trusted!! What a shame on India!



This is really unfortunate what Jamat/BNP is doing with the border issues. They are concocting stories, altering/fabricating online videos/photos for the purpose of anti-Indian campaign. This is injecting unnecessary doubts in many real stories

>>>>>>>>> Thanks for sharing your views. IF any of us agrees with it, we have to "Assume" that mainstream Indian media ALSO working for "Jamaat and BNP"!!

I saw the BSF stripping a Bangladeshi cattle trader (For NOT paying bribe!) video first in NDTV (Probably the most watched news channel in India). Did not know they work for Jamaat.


Never thought those Jamaatis had the brain to work with India mainstream media and be partners with BNP at the same time.

But being in "Mukto-Mona" always entertains me with new points of views (Which I was not able to imagine before!).





Shalom!

-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jan 30, 2012 4:14 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Border Killings !!!

 

This is really unfortunate what Jamat/BNP is doing with the border issues. They are concocting stories, altering/fabricating online videos/photos for the purpose of anti-Indian campaign. This is injecting unnecessary doubts in many real stories, like the Felani-story. The border issue has turned into a "Crying Wolf" situation.
 
It was wrong what BSF did. That's why, as per Mohiuddin Anwar (BNP/Jamat), this incident has been investigated, and the BSF officer involved has been punished.  At the same time, we have to recognize that - what Felani and her parents did was also wrong. But, her offense did not fit the punishment. That's why the BSF officer got punished.
 
Now, using the word 'friendship' to define a state-to-state relationship is not quite appropriate. State-to-state relationship is guided by mutual interest; as a result, it cannot be called a friendship. Friendship is based on selfless deeds. Therefore, to be exact, we have to analyze the border issue considering the interest of both sides. Otherwise, it will be sentimental analysis only.
 
Thanks for clarifying this story.
 
Jiten Roy
From: MUSTAFIZUR RAHMAN <mustafiz84@hotmail.com>
To: Mukto-mona Mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 10:44 PM
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Re: Border Killings !!!

 
A journalist dug out the circumstances under which Felani was killed. See this link for a starter: 
 

Need not be a selective doubter when it comes to reports of BSF killing unarmed Bangladeshi girl, (or others) while at the same time professing to be "Mukto-Mona".

Accept qar's short brief as it is.

Mustafizur Rahman

To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
From: jnrsr53@yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 17:40:40 -0800
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Border Killings !!!

 

 
The fact is I do not know what triggered the killing of the little girl, neither do you. I want to know more about it, before I pass my verdict on this unfortunate incident. That's why I expressed my skeptic views only. You are not saying much about it also.  I watched those videos. It's a very sad story, if it's true. But, emotional discussions will not bring a solution to our border issue. What you said is an outburst of your emotion, which may bring lots of applause, but no solution. I want a practical solution to our border situation, not a sentimental analysis.
 
The hard fact is - if you go across the border in India, especially West Bengal, and live there in the border areas for a few days, you will hear many horror stories about border infiltration and criminal activities. People I know tell me that - they secure their cows with chains and padlocks at night. Even then, they find that many of them are gone in the morning. This is due to lucrative cattle-trade market in Bangladesh. Varieties of such illegal trades are going on daily across the border. Indian authority, especially - West Bengal government, even put barbed-wire fences to stop it. My guess is - BSFs must be under tremendous pressure to stop these illegal trades also. By saying this - I am not condoning the killing of the little girl.
 
You said India is behaving like a big-brother. The very same complain I also hear from many Canadians and South Americans about USA; I also hear the same complain from Tibetans about China. That's the reality.
 
You said, "…even the Indian PM was unable to make any dent to very racist bureaucrats from India who wanted to punish "Muslim" Majority Bangladeshis for petty crime like border crossing."
 
Your statement above tells a lot about why India will not be able to build a trusted relationship with Bangladesh. You are unable to think beyond your religious label. Could you tell me how Indian bureaucrats get along just fine with "Muslim" majority Persian, Middle Eastern, and south eastern countries? It's people like you, who are in the way of building a trusted relationship with India. You have also questioned my patriotism, just like Mr. Mohiuddin Anwar, a Jamat/BNP supporter.
 
Jiten Roy
 

From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2012 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Border Killings !!!

 
No one should expect to get flowers for crossing borders. Having said that, no civilized nation shoots unarmed civilians. A young Bangladeshi girl from village is not a threat for India. That part should be acknowledged.

There are many Indian citizens who wants to have good relationship with Bangladesh and I have seen it in many occasions. There are many Pakistani citizens who want to have good relations with Bangladesh as well. However we have a large border with India and none with Pakistan. It has been made obvious even the Indian PM was unable to make any dent to very racist bureaucrats from India who wanted to punish "Muslim" Majority Bangladeshis for petty crime like border crossing. Life in India is not much better than Bangladesh and over centuries people crossed rivers to look for a living. Last two decades Bangladesh witnessed huge upward trend in quality of life. So today most people who need a job can get one in Bangladesh without crossing border. Historically people of Jolpaiguri had great relations with people of Panchagarch. People of Tripura had with Comilla. People of Assam had with Shylet. So there are many families close to border who have family members who live in India or Bangladesh. It makes me sad that, stupid bureaucrats from India do not show any understanding of this historical facts. 

India is not engaged in any type of war with BD. So why India send most BSF guards who were posted in Kashmir to guard border with Bangladesh? They don't trust Bangla speaking guards to guard the border with Bangladesh. So failure to pay "Bribe" can be fatal. Kashmir is in many ways an active war zone. Historically BD villagers have had excellent relations with people of Indian states (Like Tripura, West Bengal etc), so what could have been achieved with bamboo sticks, India uses bullets for that task!!

One does not have to be a Pakistani lover to question India's ideas in this case. In fact Bangladeshis in different times went to both Indians and Pakistanis with open arms offering friendship/brotherhood but were abused by both countries in different times. Any Bangladeshis who deny this "Plain truth" can be labeled as "Rajakars". During 71 Pakistanis did not spare farmers, small shop owners, innocent Hindus and today India does not show any verifiable willingness to correct their mistakes (Of killing unarmed civilians) for many years. Despite many assurances from top level, when it comes to Bangladesh, we are pretty much an "After thought" for these arrogant nations.

(Now a little self-criticism) Still I cannot put 100% blame on them for acting like it. Unlike any civilized nation on the face of the earth we are willing to sell our dignity to either Indians or Pakistanis in most cases. Some people cannot see any fault of Pakistan and the others cannot find a way to ask an honest questions to Indian authority when our unarmed civilians are murdered every month like a pigeon during pigeon hunting season. It is our own fault that, we are still acting like a boy who always needs protection from a "Mother country" and do not have guts to put a stop on this.

I do not like blind haters of India or Pakistan. So I took the time and asked around people from all neighbors of India. I did not expect any "Love" from Pakistanis for Indians BUT to my surprise almost all citizens I spoke with (From Sri Lanka, Nepal, Maldives) expressed their disapproval of India for trying to play "Big brother" in this region. Most people of Bangladesh are not automatically anti_Indians but very stupid Indian policies towards Bangladesh FORCED them to act like anti-Indians.

The level of discrimination is so obvious and huge that, it will take many posts to list them. Yesterday I read West Bengal PM "Didi Momota" (She is known as didi to most of her followers) did not approve of enclave exchanges with Bangladesh. "Momotabihin momota" is harsher than cruel Delhi bureaucrats when it comes to Bangladesh. Hopeless idiots among us still struggles to find a way to lend their supports to such people who want to steal our dignity from us!!

Like most Bangladeshis I will always have some extra affection for all Bangla speaking people all over the world. Saurov Ganguly will always have some extra support for being a Bangali, Still I hope as a group we learn have some decency and respect for our own people for a change. Some of the posts from blind Pakistani lovers and blind India lovers makes me sick!!

We owe it to hundreds of thousands of "Shaheeds" who laid their lives to free us from regional masters. It would be very ungrateful of us if we fail to put our country first over our biases on local politics. it is important that we start acting like Bangladeshis for a change? Other wise what is the point of having a free country????

I feel Indian lost many opportunities to be friendly with Bangladesh and will review it's failed policies and take necessary measure to fix it before it is too late.

Shalom!!


-----Original Message-----
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Jan 27, 2012 8:28 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Border Killings !!!

 

The function of a border guard is to protect the border from illegal intrusion. Anything can happen when someone tries to cross the border illegally. What do you expect from a BSF guard when you try to cross the border illegally – a bouquet of flowers? You already mentioned that Indian authority has punished those killers. What else do you want from them now?
 
Are you infected by the virus called "India-paranoia?" Pakistani regime used to spread this virus among the people. It is sad to see that - you still possess it.
 
Have you heard the news that Pakistan has already declared favorite-nation-status to India? Now, wide range of Pakistani goods will be able to flow to India. Bangladesh needs to maintain good relationship with India also to access their large consumer market. Progress and prosperity does not come from empty-talks and vacuous-pride only. You need very low-IQ people to buy your arguments.
 
You have initiated your reply with the sentence "Like all minorities of a special group you are unsuccessfully trying to defend kllling/beating by Hayena BSF Force." You meant all Hindus defend border killings by BSF. Do you understand that this is a stereotypical statement of a communal person?
 
Jiten Roy

 
Jiten Roy,
 
Like all minorities of a special group you are unsuccessfully trying to defend  kllling/beating by Hayena BSF Force. Are you a citizen of India or Bangladesh ?
Indian BSF aithorities already investigated and punished the killers of the unfortunatomes to blaming the BSFe Bangladesh girls. It has been a proven crime againsting  humanity.
You behaving like Mr. Manik of Awami League who is more pro-Indian than the Indians.
Yes you are a doubter when it comes to blaming the Indians.
Just ask yourself whether such behavior of a Force of a civilized democratic nation acceptable, you will get an an answer.
All those we see aren't doctored video/photo created by special interest group rather plain tuth and real picture as blamed by diehard BSF supporteres like Mr. Manik.
Be fearless to condemn animalistic behavior of any armed force.
Thanks again.
 
 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Border Killings !!!
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 19:05:48 -0800 (PST)

 
I am a doubter, I admit; I doubt everything. So, I think that recent video of border-beating and the picture of the dead well-dressed little girl at the Bangladesh-India border need some scrutiny. How did she get killed? Did somebody hung her dead body at the fence for pictures? If not, why she wanted to cross the border. Are they part of an organized black-market ring? Or, were they innocent victims of a setup by some vested interest groups for obtaining political talking-points? How did they acquire those images if these incidents occurred on the other side of the border? Anybody knows?
 
If these incidents were not due to a border-intrusion by BSF, I agree with you on the point that - whatever happens at the border involving illegal border crossings should have no bearing on the relationship between the two neighboring countries. 
 
Jiten Roy
 

 
Dear India Haters and Awami League Lovers,
 
Any Killing is wrong and prohibited by Universal Declaration of Human Rights, either as punishment or with any intention. Mexican border killings as per police claim are related to drug and violence related to drug. Please see the references of Border Killings in Bangladesh and Mexico below:
 
Please cool down or drink a little bit more Koolaid to keep you calm and quiet to use your Allah/God/Creator  given or endowed quality, "reason and conscience" or "Ashraful Makhlukat'  as embodied in the Declaration of Universal Human Rights of United Nations Article 1. http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml#a1 ;   , ratified by 195+ sovereign countries of the world, this is the sole quality which differentiate us from living animals- only animals do not use "reason and conscious" living human should, if he does not then he degrades himself to animals, criminals, mentally disabled or what not. So please use your  "reason and conscious" in your all activities, thinking, arguments, talking, writing, emails etc. etc.

Article 1.

  • All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
So many killings happen in Mexican Border but friendship between Mexico and USA has never been to breaking point, The Mexicans, natural resources rich , but  mostly poor because of their bad governments, poor Mexicans cross the border illegally knowing full well that it is illegal and border police may kill most of the time if attempt goes wrong any time. Like our Bangladesh , we are very poor for our bad and corrupted governments. I know the best brain surgeon, it was in Readers' Digest Article,  of Johns Hopkins crossed the border 7 times while he was a teen ager, police put him back 6 times because he surrendered and was  arrested, he used to pick  ripe red tomatoes as a farm worker boy, went to school did very well and became a brain surgeon, now he says pick up red tomato like brain tumour from his patients' brains;  he spends at least 25% of his time and money volunteering and helping other poor kids irrespective of ethnicities to go to school and for their education
Regards.
Yours sincerely,
Golam F. Akhter, Bangladesh-USA Human Rights Coalition Inc.
 
Reference 1. Bangladesh Border Killings:    http://www.irinnews.org/report.aspx?ReportId=94399 ;
 
"....................Some 347 Bangladeshis and 164 Indians have been killed by Indian forces since 2006, when the Indian government built the wall, according to BSF................................."


Migrant deaths along the Mexico–U.S. border occur hundreds of times a year because of those attempting to cross into the United States from Mexicoillegally.[1] The number of deaths has steadily increased since the mid-1990s with exposure (including heat stroke, dehydration, and hypothermia) being the leading cause.[2]
According to the United States Border Patrol, 1,954 people died crossing the U.S–Mexico border between the years 1998-2004.[3] In the fiscal year ending September 29, 2004, 460 migrants died crossing the U.S.-Mexico border.[4] In 2005, more than 500 died across the entire U.S.-Mexico border.[5] The number of yearly border crossing deaths has doubled since 1995.[6] In 2009, 417 deaths were reported across the border.[7] Yet the statistics cited by scholars and the media are only the number of known deaths and do not include those who have never been found, underestimating the actual number of migrants that have died attempting unauthorized border crossings.[8]
 
++========================================
 


On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 5:54 PM, SAIF Davdas <islam1234@msn.com> wrote:
Mohiuddin Saheb> Don't worry, pretty soon your Ler-Kay-Lengay-Hindustan Netri
will be in Power. She will put the Indian Maalaaoons in their rightful place and establish
your dream of United Pakistan. I propose a new name for the United Pakistan-RAZAAKARISTAN!  
That way you guys can defend your action by saying, see we did not want Pakistan!
 
SaifDevdas
islam1234@msn.com
 
From: mohiuddin@netzero.net
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 18:13:03 +0000
To: man1k195709@yahoo.com; mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com; dahuk@yahoogroups.com; chottala@yahoogroups.com; nazrulic@gmail.com; srbanunz@gmail.com; dahuk@yahoogroups.com
CC: captchowdhury@yahoo.ca; farid2002hossain@hotmail.com; farida_majid@hotmail.com; farahmina@gmail.com; dina30_khan@yahoo.com; abid.bahar@gmail.com; obaidul.quader@gmail.com; liaquat707@gmail.com; guhasb@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Fw: Border Killings !!!
Mr. Manik,
Advisor of Awami League,
 
According to the latest statement from Mr. Ashraf, Secretery Of Awami League, such BSF brutality will continue and we have to live with this tragedy for long time.
Why can't we prevent BSF brutality?
What's the deal ?
Are we weak to defend our border population since our BDR crippled ?
Why BSF can't do similar brutalities against Pakistani border people ?
Can't we fight back ?

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Muhammad Ali <manik195709@yahoo.com>
To: undisclosed recipients: ;
Subject: Fw: Border Killings !!!
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 14:46:25 -0800 (PST)



 
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: sharafat majumdar <uchitkotha72@hotmail.com>
To: mohiuddin@netzero.net
Cc: manik195709@yahoo.com; desh_bondhu@ymail.com; syed.aslam3@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 5:34 PM
Subject: Border Killings !!!

Mr. Anwar,

BSF killed 350 bangladeshis when BNP was in power (2001-2006). Did you protest that time ? Where was your big mouth that time ? Your guru Nizami and Mujahidi were ministers during that time !!!! So, stop your HUKKA HUA with border killing . BSF is killing bangladeshis but you are killing English language in your mails. Try to be literate in this forum .

Sharafat Majumder.




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