Graduate fellowship is not even remotely comparable with the service generation after generation of the so-called low-caste and no-caste Hindus have been providing to the so-called high-caste Hindus. Dr. Das probably was not in his better judgments when he made the comparison.
I remember working almost continuously from 8 AM to 2 AM the next day a few times on my Ph.D. research on gas-phase kinetics. Once the kinetic run got started, I had to generate enough data, so that I could make a reasonable judgment on the reaction kinetics. Research for a student is really not for a salary, it is for a degree. It can be compared with the rigorous trainings that an average young person must go through if he/she wants to become a disciplined soldier. It is a choice, not a divine order. Besides, it lasts for only a few years. In fact, probably most of the so-called slave-driver professors actually work harder than their graduate students and post-doctoral associates.
I actually see the point of Dr. Das stating that Sun is a God. Of course, this needs to be qualified with what one means by God. The power of Sun is obvious. When people did not know better, it was actually reasonable to pray to Sun. Praying to Sun was not as irrational as praying to the totally imaginary almighty that billions of people pray to even in today's world. Of course, as people began to comprehend the sources of its energy, the supernaturality component of Sun, and the idea of praying to it, got untenable.
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From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Conversion to and from Hinduism
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Conversion to and from Hinduism
Slave labor can be obtained from religious addicts always. In recent times, however, Graduate fellowship is a version of it. 'Shri' or 'Shree' is added to a name to indicate a male person's handsome appearance. These words do not indicate divinity. Sun is indeed a God, without it life would have been impossible on earth. Other 'stars' in the solar system are Jupiter and Saturn. Each of them radiate more energy than they receive. According to Immanuel Velikovosky, the earth might have been the satellites of them in different periods. After Venus was formed from one of these stars, the solar system was redistributed.
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On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 6:14 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
To answer Dr. Roy's questions, I would say, "With due respect to our ancient forefathers, I would keep their primitive wisdom in my library collection, but not make much out of it about life and death, or anything else. After all they were ignorant of simple facts like Earth is round, air is a matter, and Sun is a star; none of them God/god."However, I would reiterate that the concept of bad virtue and karma from previous lives making one do poor quality work to serve people who had good virtue and karma in previous lives is too dangerous; not just innocently dim-witted. It is a recipe for getting slave labor from brainwashed and willing victims. The civilized world should trash it without caring about the so-called religious sentiments of the criminals and idiots, no matter how many billion they could be in number.By the way, I have a question for Dr. Roy: How does Krishna becomes 'Shree-Krishna' to someone who does not follow any religion?So long for now,Sukhamaya BainFrom: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 11:19 PMSubject: Re: [mukto-mona] Conversion to and from HinduismThose who believe in heaven and hell can answer your questions. From scientific point of view, these questions are irrelevant.We don't have to go to ancient sages to understand life and death as physiological processes. Every day we are acquiring new knowledge about them. Life and death, however, have special meanings and implications for human beings and hence have philosophical dimensions too. Philosophers, poets, and creative geniuses from the fields of literature and arts have depicted them in various ways.From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Conversion to and from Hinduism
How about if we take bits and pieces from all religions to find answers to our questions. As per contemporary religious belief good deeds take you to the Heaven, and bad deeds take you to the Hell. This part is clear. But, what happens to those who did some good and some bad deeds?That's where re-incarnation theory comes. If you are not good enough for Heaven or bad enough for Hell, you come back to this world and restart your cycle. You are endowed with all qualities based on your credits from the previous life. This is what, I think, Shree-Krishna-logic means. It provides a complete solution to the mystery of our life and death.The fact is – those ancient Rishis were the philosophers of those days. When they were meditating, they were mostly seeking answers to all those unknowns about life and death. Should we brush their knowledge away so callously, when we know science cannot go that far in our life time as they have gone? I know – some of their views are proven to be wrong. Does that mean all their views were wrong? The choice is ours; either we reject all those knowledge or use some of them to complement ours from science, until we find the total scientific answers in some unknown time horizon. Jiten Roy--- On Mon, 2/27/12, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Conversion to and from Hinduism
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, February 27, 2012, 9:34 PM
If I understood the question, then I will say that we sacrifice (money, leisure, close association with a dear one, etc.) in the hope of a greater return in this world. A religious man, however, hopes for the fruits of the after-life also. There are higher levels of sacrifice (mostly emotional but also done out of dutifulness)(examples, sacrifice own's life for the mother land, for saving the life of a dear one, etc.) Good deeds and bad deeds are relative. Even the Geeta says that the sin itself is relative.From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Conversion to and from Hinduism
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Conversion to and from Hinduism
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, February 27, 2012, 6:54 PM
Let me comment on the posts below by Dr. Jiten Roy and Mr. Q. A. Rahman.First on Dr. Roy's comments:Our knowledge is limited, lack thereof is unlimited. So, I would say, Dr. Roy has some thought provoking questions, for which I do not have definitive answers. However, that does not mean that God, re-birth and virtue/karma in various lives are the answers. Of course, when we can not comprehend, it is easy to give up, and explain it with the irrationality of the concept of supernatural powers. It is much more difficult to explore with patience to find out. If we look at the progress of human civilization, we can see that some of the old supernatural kinds of mysteries are no longer mysteries. Just imagine, for example, when people did not know that air was a matter, they used to consider it as a god and pray to it (or to God's expression in the form of air). For another example, even in today's world, some people pray for rain when there is a drought; of course, the technology-based irrigation works better than the prayers.We need to realize that it may take too many generations of human intelligence to unravel just one mystery; and some mysteries could remain unsolved even on the day when Earth is destroyed (by natural phenomena according to the rationalists).Having said the above, let me make two generalizations. While some exceptionally remarkable discoveries may take place here and there by accidents, most of the unraveling of mysteries and solutions to problems are accomplished via systematic studies. While some remarkably brilliant individuals may come from poor environments, most of the talents do come from the environments of talents.Now, on Mr. Rahman's comments:Talking about the race factor, I have a CD of Shyama Sangeets, where I like the tunes of some of the songs. When I hear one particular song, I think, what kind of a deprave is this devotee? It goes like, "tui kali mekhe, jyoti dheke, parbi ne ma faki dite ……" (by covering your glow with black ink, mother, you can not deceive me). The idea is, "even when you disguise yourself as black, I still recognize you, and am fond of you." Now, Syama (Kali) is supposed to be actually black according to the Hindu belief. However, this devotee is praying to this god of his as if she is actually white, just disguising as black. In other words, he has to imagine the black god to be white while praying to her! Black can not be prayed to, even when she is the revered motherly god!!Now, I am not suggesting that most devotees are like that when it comes to the goddess Kali. But, there is no doubt that for the religious and backward sections of the Hindus, white is clearly more desirable and revered than black.As for Mr. Rahman liking the "wisdom of many Hindu scholars", I would say, that probably is because Hinduism, whether religion or philosophy, is not too prescriptive, and many of the so-called scholars are not up to following exactly what was written in the religious books in ancient times.Well that's all for now,Sukhamaya Bain=========================================From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Conversion to and from Hinduism
Yes, the so called upper caste Hindus has exploited Shree-Krishna-logic for Millennia, and they are still doing it today in some parts of the Indian subcontinent. It could mean totally different things. In one of my previous posts, I asked for an explanation as to why some children are born with silver-spoon in mouth - while others starts suffering right from the moment they are born. You may say it's a statistical probability, but that answer does not satisfy me. Here is another question – why some people are extraordinarily brilliant (or skilled) in something, while others cannot understand (or do) simple things. It can't be the gene, because we can find brilliant people coming from illiterate parents; it can't be the environment, because we can see this difference within the same environment; it can't be the opportunity, because we can find this difference within the same family. Then, what?Jiten Roy===========================================From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Conversion to and from Hinduism
(SBain) Talking about conversion to Hinduism, I have wondered, who gets converted to what caste? Who in the world would be interested in getting converted to a Shudra or Chandal? The way I see the attitudes of the powerful Hindus, they would not take the average Muslim or black African for anything better than a Shudra or Chandal. Of course the Hindu leaders have been keen on licking the boots of the Nawabs and the white Europeans. They would not dare converting them to anything less than Brahmin or Kshatitrya. But, why in the world would the average Nawab/British demote himself from kicking the butts of the Hindus to be equal to the Hindus?>>>>>>>>>> I think beside the economic and power working as "Factors" to this issue, RACE is another factor as well. In most parts of India (Certainly all of Bengal) I have not seen any idol that had "Dark skinned" men or women (Like Durga, Saraswati, etc). They are all very "White" and ironically "Ashur" (Beaten by Durga) is often dark skinned.
I think unconsciously Brahmins had lesser problem in accepting fair skinned Muslims and British raj as their masters. Albeit "Muslim" rule was often an issue but did not become so important until the British wanted to divide us (TO rule our forefathers!!) by sewing hatred between these communities.
My guess is (Pardon me if I am crossing a line here) most Brahmins will have easier time accepting a Muslim like (Saif Ali Khan--white looking) as their masters than accepting Ravon looking lower caste Hindu as their master.
Gandhi (Despite his many limitations) tried very hard to break this racist cycle (Against lower caste Hindus and Muslims) but had to give his life for this mission.
Hinduism has many good teachings in it. Specially I like the wisdom of many Hindu scholars are uplifting. But thousands of years ago the Brahmins came from a different land TO India and put themselves as the "Top dog" of the social and religious ladder.
This is MY OPINIONS only based on observations. So if there are any mistakes, feel free to correct it.![]()
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