For centuries Jews (Specifically in Europe) faced open discrimination for simply being "Jewish". So they did their best to blend in. Most people in that situation would have done the same.
Before re-creation of Israel (1948) from the Bible, Muslims had pretty good relationship with Jewish community. Even many Muslim scholars permitted Muslims to eat Koshar foods (As a substitute of Halal).
At the same time some of the most vocal activists for Muslims causes are Jews. For example, before George Bushes little adventure in Iraq, a lot of anti-war campaigns received funds from liberal Jews in the USA (Such as Ben Cohen of Ben and Jerry's ice-cream).
There are incidents of Muslims converting to Christianity during the 1947 riots as well. I heard of families in Delhi who stayed Christian after the partition.
Wars and conflicts produces some of the painful outcomes one can imagine.
Our opinions must not be biased by what Israel is doing.
Yes, Jews are like most other communities. You have good and bad people in all communities. Nothing extra ordinary. BTW, I have not shared any opinion that was influenced by what Israel is doing right now. Most people who can read and write know what is going on, an ordinary person like myself do not need to "Educate" anyone about that.
Shalom!
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Mar 2, 2012 5:45 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Jewish connection to Choudhuri/Chaudhuri/Chowdhury
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Jewish connection to Choudhuri/Chaudhuri/Chowdhury
Guess some Jews (All Jews are known as "Bene Israel" or "Children of Israel") wanted to hide their identity (Pretty common in Jewish history) to took up Indian name to "Blend in".
It is a good "Cover", since a person can blend among Muslims and Hindus at the same time.
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Taqiya does not mean deceit. It means hiding or keeping secret one's religion. if some one feels danger if he discloses his faith
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 2:56 PM
There are some references with tax collection (Taluqdars) but I was able to find any "Jewish" connection with it. Everything says, it is an "Indian" name (Sanskrit origin).
Maybe this is another chance to "Educate us"? ???
Shalom!! Thank you again, Dr. Roy! Even a common title 'Chaudhuri' is of Jewish origin. The Chaudhuris used to be tax collectors as Persian Jews. On 2/27/12, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Mr. Q. Rahman, > You have a doubt about the information provided by K. Das, in this case, > which is fine. But, what is not fine is that - you are thinking that he has > made it up. It is quite insulting to the wisdom of any presenter, especially > Dr. K. Das. When you insult someone's wisdom, he/she will insult your wisdom > also. Both of you are just doing this from the beginning. May I ask you, > with due respect, to reconsider your style. > The normal course of deliberation should have been one of the two chices - > 1) you provide information to disprove the argument or 2) you do not respond > at all, until you find a response. > To tell you the truth, I do not know the fact about his claim, and I also > have nothing to disprove his argument. But, I know that thousands of Jews > took shelter in India due to persecution around the world. I heard this from > many Jewish leaders; they openly praise India for her generosity to provide > safe shelter to so many Jewish people when the entire world turned against > them. I am telling you that K. Das's argument is quite plausible. To ask him > to prove that he is correct - is improper, I should say. The burden of proof > is on us to disprove his arguments. > However, you can always ask for more information, by admitting your > ignorance on the subject, but not the way you did by doubting his wisdom. > This is for all of us. > Jiten Roy > > --- On Sun, 2/26/12, qar <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote: > > > From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net> > Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Taqiya does not mean deceit. It means hiding or > keeping secret one's religion. if some one feels danger if he discloses his > faith > To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, February 26, 2012, 2:01 PM > > > > > > > > > For example, 'Shet/Shetty' was originally a Jewish surname. They retained > their money lending business but lost their religion. Instead of Yahweh, > they started worshiping Lord Ganesh. > > >>>>>>>>>>> Is this your "Theory"? Never heard of it. That is why it would be >>>>>>>>>>> helpful, if you could elaborate and educate us. Otherwise it >>>>>>>>>>> sounds like your previous claim (Where you said Allah had sons >>>>>>>>>>> and daughters!!). > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> > To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sun, Feb 26, 2012 1:12 am > Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Taqiya does not mean deceit. It means hiding or > keeping secret one's religion. if some one feels danger if he discloses his > faith > > > > > > > Apparently, you never heard of Dayananda Saraswati. He got killed as he > converted a few Muslims to 'Hinduism'. Even one of the close associates(Rup > or Sanatan Goswami) of Chaitanya was a Muslim. Any person claiming to be > knowledgeable should spend considerable time reading informative books. > Someone who can't identify the Afghans as Pathans ain't even worth a > lecture, let alone any debate. > > What happened to the Jews? They were absorbed by the Indian society. Many > of them even became Brahmins. For example, 'Shet/Shetty' was originally a > Jewish surname. They retained their money lending business but lost their > religion. Instead of Yahweh, they started worshiping Lord Ganesh. > Read Ronald Inden instead of Nihar Roy to learn about caste system in > India. (However, a person should not read a book beyond his level of > comprehension.) More Buddhists got converted by Hindus than the other way > round.. > > Lack of wit doesn't permit one to understand a lot of things. Those who > say, entry into Hinduism is difficult if not impossible are unaware of > history, and also of contemporary events. How many of the Hare Krishnas > were born as Hindus? Have an electroencephalogram, and take medicine to > improve brain function. > > > On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 12:15 PM, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > What happened to the immigrant Jews? Did Hindu preachers convert them to > Hindus? What I know about Buddhists is this: Hindus made Buddha as one of > their "avatars". Can you please shed light on the parts of Indian history > when Hindus tried to convert non-Hindus and "untouchables" including various > tribes Hinduism? According to Nihar Ranjan Ray even the chandals in Bengal > were outside the chaturvarna system. This means that they were not even > shudras.I don't understand why you react so sharply when I want to say that > exit from Hinduism is lot easier than getting into it if not impossible! > This attitude of the Hindus made it lot easier for the Buddhist, Christian, > and Muslim preachers to convert the Indians to their respective religions. > > > > > > From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> > To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 8:14 PM > > Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Taqiya does not mean deceit. It means hiding or > keeping secret one's religion. if some one feels danger if he discloses his > faith > > > > > > > "Hinduism" and "Judaism" are "too pure" to accept an outsider. Really??? > What happened to the three major waves of Jewish immigrants to India? What > happened to the Buddhists who constituted ninety percent of Bengal populace > before Adisur? > > > > On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 10:17 AM, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Preaching or propagating a religion if you will is marketing of an idea. As > in modern marketing you have to use all the marketing tools, strategies, and > tactics to be effective. Buddhism, Christianity, and Islam have been being > missionary religions. And we know what missionaries do in general. Besides > the soft spoken preachers, rulers and conquerors also supplement the efforts > of the preachers sometimes with sword. Historically Christian and Islamic > history of preaching have not been always peaceful particularly when the > rulers and conquerors have taken active roles. Buddhism although a > proselytizing religion was an exception in this respect. "Hinduism" and > "Judaism" are "too pure" to accept an outsider. Hinduism within its own > periphery will rather suppress the lower casts obliging them to convert to > another religion. In that sense Hinduism is anti-preaching. In modern times, > Chaitanyadeb and Vivekananda made exceptions. While Christian missioneries > risked their lives to go to remote araes in India, the custodians of > Hinduism kept themselves busy with the task of making religion more and more > inaccesible. Service to the distressed humanity and bringing light to the > underprivileged and neglected people are the good sides of preaching. There > are ugly sides too. Bribing for example is an example. > > > > > > > From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> > To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 5:58 PM > Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Taqiya does not mean deceit. It means hiding or > keeping secret one's religion. if some one feels danger if he discloses his > faith > > > > > > > > > > All religions allow lying to save one's life. If that's Taqiya, it's > understandable, but I heard - it also includes provision for any deceitful > tactics for propagation of Islam, including conversion. Is that so? Could > someone clarify this misunderstanding? > > Jiten Roy--- On Tue, 2/21/12, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote: > > From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Taqiya does > not mean deceit. It means hiding or keeping secret one's religion. if some > one feels danger if he discloses his faithTo: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, February 21, 2012, 9:38 PM > > > > > > It also means telling a few lies. > On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 9:18 PM, S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Taqiya does not mean deceit. It means hiding or keeping secret one's > religion. if some one feels danger if he discloses his faith.This is > permitted by some sects in Islam, not all. I feel it appropriate in case of > danger. > Nothing should be distorted. > > Shah Abdul Hannan > > > > > > > > From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Kamal Das > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 8:33 AM > To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Fw: OP meeting on "Hindu temples and properties > are d estroyed in Chittagong, Bangladesh" > > > > > > > Even God supports deceit in the 'interest of religion', the Arabic word for > it is taquia. About the 'referendum of 1940', the Lahore resolution was not > a referendum. It was the result of a Muslim League meeting. The > participants, e.g., Sikander Hyat Khan of the Unionist Party, G. M. Syed of > Jiye Sind, and Fajlul Haque of K. S. P., were members of provincial > parliaments elected in 1937 on the separate electorate basis. They were > coerced by the British Governors to be members of the Muslim League, else > their cabinets would be dissolved (Ref.- A. J. Moore in Escape from the > Empire). According to Maulana Azad, Indian Muslims had grown weaker as a > political force due to partition in 1947. > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 2:57 AM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ **************************************************** Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: Call For Articles: http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68 http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585 **************************************************** VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/ **************************************************** "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190Yahoo! 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Friday, March 2, 2012
Re: [mukto-mona] Jewish connection to Choudhuri/Chaudhuri/Chowdhury
I hope Mr. Q. Rahman will enlighten us with evidences.
>>>>>>>>> Nothing dramatic. Lot of leading actors in show business in the USA are Jews (Some of my favorite comedians like Seinfeld, Jon Stewart etc). Real name of Jon is Jonathan Stuart Leibowitz. He does not use the last part now a days.
-----Original Message----- Shalom!
1. I have really been enlightyened by the exchanges of information. I did not know that one jew became India's C-in-C and one jew became the governor of Panjab and so on. The new information has bolstered my positive impression that I have about secular practices of the Indian leadership.
2. I am not aware of any evidences to prove that hiding identity is pretty common in Jweish history. I hope Mr. Q. Rahman will enlighten us with evidences.
3. One religious group may want to hide identity because of two reasons: one, to escape punishment for crimes committed by them, and two, to escape persecution. To shed some light on the second reason, I want to mention how Hindus during 1971 Pakistan occupation time tried to hide identity. Probably thousands of Hindus converted to Islam. I did a little google search. It is hard to test the reliability of the source. One source mentions one information. To escape persecution by a Muslim ruler, some jews had to move to a Hindu kingdom.
4. Guess is not enough to claim that jews took a cover under a changed name.
ames changes over time for other reasons. A muslim name, for example, "Rahman" has many versions depending on the language, place, and culture.
5. I have high regard for the jews who have produced so many talents and whose contributions have been extraordinary in almost every sector of knowlede and creativity.
6. Our opinions must not be biased by what Israel is doing.
From: qar <qrahman@netscape.net>
Well thank you. Still then "Chowdhury" remains an "Sankrit" name.
-----Original Message----- From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:02 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Jewish connection to Choudhuri/Chaudhuri/Chowdhury
Mr. Q. Rahman,
Here are the Jewish connection I found.
The Jewish community of Maharashtra (called Bene Israel) was also known to be a sub-group in the Teli case called Shanivar Teli meaning Saturday oil pressers for their Jewish custom of abstention from work on Shabbat.
Telis also called themselves Sahu Vaishyas. Telis are found throughout India. Hindu Teli are called Teli Sahu and Muslim Teli are called Teli Malik.
In north Maharashtra, most of them hide their family name and suffix Chaudhari as their surname.
According to Nirad C. Chowdhury the origin of the title Chowdhury is in the sub-continent. It meant "Chotur Dhari" ( literally meaning "holder of four"(directions/corner). The one who owns four corners or owner of land). This tile meant some honor to the families and even when some of them reverted to Islam, they kept the title. That is the reason both Hindus and Muslims have this title.
-----Original Message----- From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Feb 27, 2012 8:43 am Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Taqiya does not mean deceit. It means hiding or keeping secret one's religion. if some one feels danger if he discloses his faith
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