Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Slander and libel do not apply to divine figures

Let me address a few of QR's points.

QR: "false statement with INTENT is a criminal offense in YOUR country (The USA)."

Not true with respect to any divine figure. You can say Krishna was Jesus's brother, or Jesus was a characterless idiot, or Jesus was no son of God. There is no law in the USA to call these slander or libel. Some religious Christians might make some noise, but there would be no arrest. Even the seriously religious Christians would not contemplate killing you; some of them would probably pray to God for forgiving you, and for bringing you to Christianity. Most people in the USA are sensible enough to realize that beliefs are mostly in people's imaginations; thus, the so-called false statements are to be ignored, as opposed to making crime sprees out of them.

QR: "For example, someone saw Mr. Delwar Hossain in the moon few weeks ago and it caused a lot of tangible damages. So the person who started this rumor has to pay for this crime."

This kind of hoax is a problem where too many people are too stupid to fall for it. This kind of nonsense would get little or no attention in the logical and civilized world.

QR: "If you have a 14 year old daughter and one of your neighbor goes around tells every neighbors and your friends that, your daughter sleeps with at least four new men every month (Which is completely false)."

Practically all human beings would recognize that your love for your daughter comes through a real relationship, as opposed to through an imagination (read religion). Slander and libel against your daughter is within the jurisdiction of your human society/legal system. Your God is no human; your revered divine figure is not universally accepted as such. Thus, you cannot compare your way of dealing with defamations of your child and of your God in the same manner. Do realize that, as per your belief, your God has all the power to punish the offender Himself (and does not need you to do anything); your child or you do not have that kind of power.

QR: "Do understand, to every practicing Muslims our Lord (Allah) and His last messenger Muhammad (PBUH) is no less beloved than our family members."

This mentality will keep the Muslims backward, and they will continue to represent most of the pitiable complainers and abhorrent terrorists of the world; very unfortunate indeed not only for the Muslims but for the entire humanity.

QR: "If we learn to respect every religion properly, we can live in peace and prosper."

To get respect, the religions need to be actually respectable. There are plenty of things in all God-fearing religions that are not respectable. I do not have to point any out. If you ever get to open your mind, you will not have problem finding some yourself in what you now think is your religion. After all, there is such a thing as 'misinterpretation' of your religion that leads people to commit heinous crimes, while the criminals do not think that they are 'misinterpreting' your religion. You do not even have the honesty/guts to expel those criminals from your religious clan, while you persecute (or softly support such persecution) of reasonable human beings who have not committed any crime by talking about your religion.

Let me conclude by saying that I have no interest in opening any religious book to criticize, let alone what you might call 'defaming' it. What I care about is how people behave in this world. If you commit crimes against humanity, you need to be punished, no matter what religious book encouraged you to commit such crimes. To me, your book would not be on trial, you would be.

Well, I hope my comments would not be "ulu bone mukta chharano."

Sukhamaya Bain

============================================

From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: Slander and libel do not apply to divine figures

 

But I do not think criticizing any such figure even in the harshest possible terms, or even offending Him/Her using false statements, should be prosecutable by humans on Earth.

>>>>>>>>> I disagree with parts of your opinions. I welcome questions and critics of religions. I do NOT support "False statements" by people and laws should NOT protect such idiots who makes false statements. If a defendant can prove it was a "Mistake" that may be forgiven but false statement with INTENT is a criminal offense in YOUR country (The USA). Please check with any lawyer of your choice.

Of course, the divine figure should have the right to sue the offender in a court that probably is located in heaven (although God might choose hell instead, because the offender probably would have no entry permit to heaven even for a court appearance).

>>>>>>>> CUTE argument!!

BUT one can offend a whole community by making false statement. For example, someone saw Mr. Delwar Hossain in the moon few weeks ago and it caused a lot of tangible damages. So the person who started this rumor has to pay for this crime.


Similarly when fanatic Hindus spread a rumor about "Babri mosque" and destroyed the mosque in broad day light (In Delhi, India), it is a criminal offense against Muslim community who used to use the masjid for religious purpose. India lost a historical artifact in the process!!


Anyway, I hope these examples will help you to understand "My logic" and how law works.

If God were a universal truth, even the non-believer was created by God. Obviously, the non-believer does not realize it. If the believer thinks a non-believer has offended God or His messenger, his/her honorable action would be to pray to God for Him to change the offender's mind (according to the belief, God surely has the power to do that). The believer could have some honest pity for the offender, but should have no business being angry, let alone committing any kind of offences/crimes/atrocities against the non-believing offender.

>>>>>>>>>> If you have read my previous discussions with me (In Mukto-mona) you would notice that, I am comfortable with hostile atheists. But it is personal matter.

Let us analyze how "Logic" of law works. You have presented another "Cute" logic of yours which may work in Disnyland but may not work in the "Real world".

Let me offer you an example, If you have a 14 year old daughter and one of your neighbor goes around tells every neighbors and your friends that, your daughter sleeps with at least four new men every month (Which is completely false).

Should I expect (As a law-maker) you to be very calm about it or would you expecting to suit the bastard who is spreading false rumor against your precious daughter?

Do understand, to every practicing Muslims our Lord (Allah) and His last messenger Muhammad (PBUH) is no less beloved than our family members. So when we have such "Safe-guards" we'll see less "hate-crimes" and defamations against people.

The reason America works better because it is a country which respects it's laws. Bangladesh (Unfortunately) is a long way from being a "Land of law" where laws are fairly applied. If it did, people would have thought many times BEFORE they attacked places of worship and houses of common citizens of Bangladesh.

Most importantly, as per Islamic teachings, Allah (SWT) is not dependent upon any Muslims to "Protect" His honor. But we have such laws to keep harmony in our communities. If we learn to respect every religion properly, we can live in peace and prosper.


Shalom!