I am sorry, I don't have time to read all the literature you have suggested. Thanks anyway. This is how I see - books are written by people, who have something different to say about something else. The fact is – how do I know who is right. But, I heard what Jinnah said in his speech. Jinnah was the leader, who had the clout and connection to make Pakistan a reality. We have to start from that point on; not what could have been or would have been. You are saying - I would insist that his talk of a secular Pakistan in 1948 was probably due to his over-consumption of alcohol on that day. He was not a serious believer in Islam; he was fanatic about his Muslim clan.
You believe in the influence of alcohol argument. That is hard to swallow for me. Tel me - who else among the rest of the bunch came to power in Pakistan ever talked about secularism? None, at all! You are just making bunch of assumption. He was only alive for about a year after the emancipation of Pakistan. I am a realist. I want to make judgment based on what he has said, not from what others have said about him. You also said - I am surprised by Dr. Roy's question, "What could have been the national language of Pakistan, other than Urdu?" Why could you not think of Bangla as a more appropriate choice? Again, please think about the reality - East Pakistan was subordinate to West Pakistan, and you are asking for Bangla to be the National Language of Pakistan. It may be logical - but not real. I am sure - Jinnah may not have ever heard of Bangla language at that time from his companions from the east; they used to communicate in either Hindi or Urdu. I, usually, do not make judgment based on ideals. As a result, I judge Jinnah based on what he said, and did, after Pakistan became a reality. As you know, Pakistan was created as a homeland for Muslims, and just after it was a reality, Jinnah publicly proposed in a speech - Pakistan is for all Pakistani, irrespective of religion. He could have remained steadfast in the initial line of politics, which could have been much more popular. Instead, he chose secularism, which was the least popular political line. I am not sure if secularism was ever talked about in Pakistan after him. Wouldn't you give him some credit for that, at least? Jiten Roy --- On Mon, 5/6/13, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] Jinnah, the secular democrat?
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, May 6, 2013, 10:03 PM
May be Dr. Jiten Roy should read the following article by Faiz Ahmed Faiz: He should also read the book, India Wins Freedom, by Maulana Abul Kalam Azad. Jinnah insisted that Congress was a Hindu party, even when Maulana Azad was the President of that party. He also insisted that Muslim League was the legitimate representative of all the Muslims of India, even when that party did not have parliamentary majority in three principal Muslim-majority provinces, Punjab, N.W.F. and Bengal. If he was not a Muslim fanatic bigot, who was? I would insist that his talk of a secular Pakistan in 1948 was probably due to his over-consumption of alcohol on that day. He was not a serious believer in Islam; he was fanatic about his Muslim clan. I am surprised by Dr. Roy's question, "What could have been the national language of Pakistan, other than Urdu?" Why could you not think of Bangla as a more appropriate choice? Obviously, Urdu was the language of the Muslim aristocrats. Bangla was the language of an overwhelming majority population of Pakistan. In terms of usage in artistic and scientific literature, Bangla was better than Urdu. I would be happy to be corrected if you can provide comparative works in the two languages, both in science and in arts. My limited knowledge tells me that people like Rabindra Nath Tagore in literature and Jagadish Chandra Basu in science were not to be found in Urdu in 1948, when Jinnah wanted Urdu, the language of only 8% of the population of Pakistan, to be the national language. Thus, respecting people (democracy) was not what Jinnah had in his head. Sukhamaya Bain. ===================================== From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 6, 2013 6:40 PM
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Shame on us that today pakistan is being sourced out, because we are unable to run the country.....ishrat Tender for running Pakistan Vaqar Ahmed Tender No. GOP 2013/193CTR/PTL/TEN/420 Ten
I tend to agree with Sukhamaya about Jinnah though To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com From: jnrsr53@yahoo.com Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 15:58:58 -0700 Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Shame on us that today pakistan is being sourced out, because we are unable to run the country.....ishrat Tender for running Pakistan Vaqar Ahmed Tender No. GOP 2013/193CTR/PTL/TEN/420 Tender Notice for Ru Sorry, another mistake in the last line - it's 'state affairs', not 'national affairs' --- On Sun, 5/5/13, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Shame on us that today pakistan is being sourced out, because we are unable to run the country.....ishrat Tender for running Pakistan Vaqar Ahmed Tender No. GOP 2013/193CTR/PTL/TEN/420 Tender Notice for Ru
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 5, 2013, 6:53 PM
I disagree. Jinnah was much more secular than any other Islamist autocrats came after him. They all hated him for that. He deserves much more credit than was given to him; his ideals would have made Pakistan a much better country than it is today. What could have been the national language of Pakistan, other than Urdu? Hindi is the national language of India, but – each state has own language for national affairs. I don't see your point. Jiten Roy
--- On Sun, 5/5/13, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Shame on us that today pakistan is being sourced out, because we are unable to run the country.....ishrat Tender for running Pakistan Vaqar Ahmed Tender No. GOP 2013/193CTR/PTL/TEN/420 Tender Notice for Ru
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, May 5, 2013, 6:18 PM
Jinnah's only ideology was probably to make himself the supreme leader of Pakistan. Please stop giving him undue credits. His secular credential has been way overblown. If he wanted a secular Pakistan, he could not have worked with religious hate-mongers to accomplish that. He was not a democrat, he was an aristocrat. If he had much respect for democracy, he could not have insisted on Urdu to be the national language of Pakistan.
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2013 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Shame on us that today pakistan is being sourced out, because we are unable to run the country.....ishrat Tender for running Pakistan Vaqar Ahmed Tender No. GOP 2013/193CTR/PTL/TEN/420 Tender Notice for Ru
| Jinnah had an ideology for Pakistan, but - the wise guys of Pakistan had a better idea, and - that is to make it an Islamic country. The rest is history.
Jiten Roy |
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