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Tuesday, August 20, 2013

Re: [mukto-mona] Was Jinnah Secular?



I hope that you have read the materials you posted.  Could Hindu fundamentalism be a reaction to such horror perpetrated since the beginning of Islamic invasion of India?


On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 4:27 PM, SyedAslam <Syed.Aslam3@gmail.com> wrote:
 

The bottom line is both Is: Both Israel and Pakistan was created with British backing  as the homelands ........

 In the Balfour Declaration of 1917, the United Kingdom became the first world power to endorse the establishment in Palestine of a "national home for the Jewish people." The British government confirmed this commitment by accepting the British Mandate for Palestine in 1922. In 1948, the State of Israel was established as a Jewish state.
Whereas, Pakistan was the result of long-standing divide and rule policy of the British Imperialism and created as a
homeland for the Muslims of British occupied India in 1947 [Partition of India].
As a matter of fact, the partition of India was set forth in the Indian Independence Act 1947. It resulted in a struggle between the newly constituted states of India and Pakistan and uprooted up to 12.5 million people with estimates of loss of life varying from several hundred thousand to a million (most estimates of the numbers of people who crossed the boundaries between India and Pakistan in 1947 range between 10 and 12 million). The violent nature of the partition created an atmosphere of mutual hostility and suspicion between India and Pakistan that plagues their
relationship to this day.
Please read:

http://bengalvoice.blogspot.com/

নোয়াখালী গণহত্যা :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noakhali_riots

http://noakhali1946.blogspot.com/

and Jajabor's "Jhilam Nodir Tire  " in this connection. 

Pakistan has essentially completed the cleansing of hindus and sikhs during the
1947-partion of India [Jhilam Nodir Tire by late auther Jajabor describes 
the genocides of Hindus and Sikhs during partition of India vividly]. 
Uprooting ordinary people from their ancestral villages and communally targetted 
Genocides [both sides] became the bottom-line feature of1947-Partition of India.  
Pakistan-born Professor Ishtiaq Ahmed of University of Stockholm recently noted in 
Punjab Panoroma that the gangs from Hindu, Sikh and muslim communities excelled
each other in inflicting cruelity on helpless men, women and children ... 
 
India definitely has it's ugly sides.But  it still  horbors 160 million muslims in that
country. [The were 133,295,077 muslims  in 2001
The current estimateof muslim population in India is 160 million - 2009]
Inspite of instigation of the Cottor Hindu leader Norendra Singh Modi and 
torture of Kashmiri Muslims the muslim population of India is growing and 
in most cases through  free conversion:
Convert to Islam Hindu women live Dr Zakir Naik:
 
Similar public conversion from Islam to any other religion is 
unthinkable in Pakistan or most other muslim countries, even in 
relatively liberal & moderate Bangladesh. 

Related:

  1. Palestine in 1948; a failed plan to uproot people - Alarabiya.net ...

    Mar 20, 2013 - nbsp;The Galilee predates any known old texts and all holy books. 
    Driving through the winding roads of villages and cities of the Galilee is a ...

===============================================================
Even for the ordinary muslims Pakistan is a 



From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 4:55 PM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Was Jinnah Secular?

There are similarities between a lot of counties. You can draw similarities if you work on it for a while with most countries. We have similarities with USA. As majority of Bangladeshi population's forefathers came from all corners of the world many hundred years ago. 

Like USA people of all colors and ethnic backgrounds live in Bangladesh. Just randomly pick 10 Japanese, Korean, Iranians or Vietnamese people. And randomly pick up 10 people from Bangladesh. You will see all kind of facial structures, colors, heights etc among Bangladeshis. The previous countries do not have diversities as much as Bangladesh or USA. 

But Fundamental differences between Pakistan and Israel are there. Pakistan was not created by forcing locals out of their land as much as Israel did. In case of Israel the "Native" population were given 22% of historical Palestine and even that part has been occupied and slowly swallowed by Israel. That is not the case with Pakistan or any other country in the world. 

Israel is an unique fanatical religious country which is pulling out apartheid policies against native non-Jewish population. Unfortunately there is not much the global community is doing about it. In case of Pakistan, it is getting US gift as US drones are bombing it every month for a long time. Israel gets US gifts but they are given fighter plane, bombs etc to fire on native non-Jews around them. 

Israel gets the largest amount of USAID in the world. Pakistan is no where near it and the aid it receives has strings attached to it. 

However there are few similarities. Both Pakistan and Israel had mostly ex-army generals leading these nations. Both were created with religious motivation. 


My two cents....


Shalom! 

 


-----Original Message-----
From: SyedAslam <Syed.Aslam3@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Aug 18, 2013 5:41 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Was Jinnah Secular?

 
Are there similarities between the Islamic Republic of Pakistan
and the Jewish State of Israel? 
................
As states created with the explicit purpose of safeguarding
the political rights of religious minorities, the Zionist and Pakistani
struggles for independence reflect some similar political traits and
approaches. Some of the problems they faced in nation-building were
also similar. In both cases, the question of nationhood was strongly 
influenced by religion; yet those who led the struggle were anything
but religious.Neither Mohammed Ali Jinnah, the architect of Pakistan, 
nor David BenGurion visualized the creation of theocratic entities. 
Describing the complex personality of Jinnah, one Indian journalist 
observed:

General Mohammad Zia-ul-Haq (Pakistan's dictator from 1977-88) must
be a very relieved man that Mr. Jinnah, the "father" of Pakistan, is not
alive today -- or he would have to be flogged publicly for his personal
habits. Mr. Jinnah not only chain-smoked Craven-A cigarettes but also
liked his whisky and was not averse to pork. His was the life of an 
upperclass liberal -- which indeed Jinnah was for most of his life, both 
private and public.7

The same is true of Ben-Gurion's "observant" life-style. Though heavily
loaded with religiosity, both leaders and their colleagues desired a
modern state that would address and satisfy the particular needs of the
Muslims in an undivided India and the Jews in an undivided Palestine.
At the same time, in both cases the secular leadership that led the
nationalist struggle gradually gave way to religious elements that were
ideologically opposed to the very idea of religiously-defined states.8

7. M.J. Akbar, India: TheSiegeWithin, Challengesto aNation'sUnity, (New Delhi:
UPS, revised edition, 1996), p.19
8. P.R.Kumaraswamy, "The strangely parallel careers of Israel and Pakistan",
Middle East Quarterly, vol.4, no.2, June 1997, pp.31-39.
From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 6:37 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Was Jinnah Secular?

We have separate myth from reality. 


According to scholars, Jinnah was a secular person who wanted to establish rights for Indian Muslims. Anyone who thinks Jinnah was a great Muslim does not know his life story very well. However we became a great leader of the Muslims. Some people say (Maulana Azad) he did not even wanted to divide India but wanted to use concept of Pakistan as a tool to bargain with fanatical faction of congress leadership. 

Our own Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman was a very active member of Muslim League as well. It was the right thing to do since majority population was hostile to Muslims.  

As a Bangladeshi I do NOT consider him as my leader but I am not stupid enough deny his place in our history. Bangladesh is the final outcome and I am glad we can live as free people here. 

So Jinnah was a secular minded leader who became the leader of the Muslims. That is how it went down......


Shalom!


-----Original Message-----
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:52 pm
Subject: [mukto-mona] Was Jinnah Secular?

 
An interesting video indeed! Assuming there is no falsification in the dubbing; doesn't Jinnah look like a messenger of the Muslim Ummah?

Obviously, the pan-Islamic minds of the Indian subcontinent want to portray Jinnah as their great Muslim leader, and do not want him to look like secular. For, they want their countries to remain (for Pakistan and Bangladesh) and to be (for India) Muslim/Islamic havens.

My guess is that some secular people of the subcontinent want to portray Jinnah as a secular individual in order to encourage secularization of Pakistan and Bangladesh (which were fathered by their supreme leader, Jinnah). For the sane Bangladeshis who object to calling Jinnah their supreme leader, please recall the shameful history of the land that your forefathers made a part of Pakistan in 1947. To me, that kind of attempts to secularize the minds of religious hate-mongers is dishonest, would not work, and should not be done.

More later, may be.

Sukhamaya Bain

==================================
From: Shahadat Hussaini <shahadathussaini@hotmail.com>
......................................
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 9:08 AM
Subject: [mukto-mona] FW: ধর্মনিরপেতাবাদ ধর্মহীনতারই নামান্তর

............................................

Check this speech.




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