>>>>>>>>>> I don't think we ought to restrict ourselves. Member Subimal did not preach religion but sometimes corrected false information shared by other members.
From time to time, I tried to do similar things and I speak about various religion ( I have not restricted myself on Islam only). Since we discuss Islam a lot, I try to offer authentic information.
I think most members here are atheists. That should be restrict us from being true "Mukto-mona" and share authentic information among ourselves.
Shalom!
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 13, 2012 6:35 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Condemning Mumbai Violence
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Condemning Mumbai Violence
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, August 12, 2012, 10:17 PM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Condemning Mumbai Violence
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Condemning Mumbai Violence
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, August 12, 2012, 1:25 PM
--- On Sun, 8/12/12, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Condemning Mumbai Violence
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, August 12, 2012, 12:42 PM
From: ram puniyani <jhang45@yahoo.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] Condemning Mumbai Violence
To: "Ram Puniyani" <ram.puniyani@gmail.com>
Date: Sunday, August 12, 2012, 1:24 AM
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http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585
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Wednesday, August 15, 2012
Re: [mukto-mona] Condemning Mumbai Violence
You said, religious people are not 'stupid'. I agree. Then, don't try to be their spokesperson? Let them speak for them.
-----Original Message-----
You said: " They are not stupid; they will decide on their religious belief--there is nothing to impose on them. Experiments with forcefully abolishing religion did not work well.
Who is trying to impose anything on anyone? I am not a preacher; I have no intention to implement any of my views on anyone. My goal is to express my mind; that's all. No one needs to accept or follow anything I say. Can I do that, without a challenge thrown at me?
You said, religious people are not 'stupid'. I agree. Then, don't try to be their spokesperson? Let them speak for them. When an atheist starts to advocate views of a religious person, it sounds like - 'Bhuter Mukhae Ram-Nam (i.e., Ram-nam from the mouth of a ghost).
Jiten Roy
I am not inconsistent. Many a time I have said that religion, a man made prouct, is the opiate of the masses. But I am not an extremist. Personally I do not need it, but I try to understand why believers need it and if it is taken away from them how they would be affected. Showing off is one thing and caring about your fellow people is a different thing. We cannot do it sitting in an ivory tower. If you want to try it you will simply be rejected. So you have to go slow if you really want them to be with you. Do not hurt their feelings too hard. They are not stupid; they will decide on their religious belief--there is nothing to impose on them. Experiments with forcefully abolishing religion did not work well. That was my point and if you think carefully you will see no inconsistency. Keep preaching atheism, I have no problem with that. My request was not to ignore the "people" part.
I put you into a little challenge. Try to implement your atheism idea in your small community, family or an extended family. See what happens. You have sidetracked my challenge. Your comment on the same is still awaited.
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
Subimal: Why do you selectively overlook what I have said?
Do you know why I overlook most of your comments? It's because they are inconsistent, in my view.
Here is why. You are accusing me of criticizing religion from the ivory tower, and at the same time you are claiming that - you are an atheist. Whenever I criticize religion, you start supporting it, and praising it. Do you see any inconsistency in your thought process? I do.
In my previous post, I have defined what makes people unwise, and that was – if people support religion and cannot see the wrong religion has done to the humanity. I call those people unwise. You are an atheist, and you do not agree with my view. To prove me wrong, you brought in your illiterate religious grandmother; you think she was a wise religious woman. I do not know her views, so I can't judge her. I came to this conclusion based on the history of religious violence and conflict around the world, and most recently in Assam and Mumbai. Such conflicts will continue unabated as long as we have various religions on earth. I could understand your point of view clearly if you were a religious man, but you claim that you are not. That's the puzzle, I can't solve. I wonder if you are a fake or a confused atheist.
Therefore, my suggestion to you, at this time, would be to know yourself first, and when you do, please be true to yourself and be consistent with your own views. When someone, being an atheist, praise religion, it becomes hypocrisy or confusion. I have no time or patient to hear any more confusing comments from you.
Thank you so much.
Jiten Roy
--- On Sun, 8/12/12, Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
Why do you selectively overlook what I have said? I have said I am atheist. I will welcome you as a hero if you can practice in your social life what you preach in limited discussion groups. I have never kept it secret that Taslima Nasrin is a 'hero' to me. Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 12, 2012, at 1:16 PM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
You are right - I cannot accomplish what I want to even in a small forum like this, let alone outside world, all because of people like you, who cannot see through the clutter in spite of possessing required quality and knowledge. It's disappointing, indeed!
Jiten Roy
Most religious people are either unwise or fake. They are unwise because they can't visualize the evil done on earth by what religion. All they need to do is - look around the world with open eyes and minds, but – they can't.---Jiten Roy
-----My grandmother was illiterate. Was she unwise? Or fake? Did religion have any positive impact on her? I think millions of moms, wives, sisters, daughters, and grandmothers are like this. What is your comment on them? Is your comment not too strong and devoid of touch of reality?
I know – people will still say – religion is not to blame; it's the people, the so called misguided religious fundamentalists, to blame. That's hogwash; I don't blame anybody, but religion, for this. Some people are just reacting to what religion is feeding to them. Obviously, not everybody will react to the same extent, but - some will. Don't blame them for reacting.------Jiten Roy
------ No question, religion is to blame. But you need to learn which part is shuva sanskar. If you don't do that you will be isolated from the greater society and and you will be irrelevant. Rebels like you are always welcome to me (remember personally I am an atheist). But I do not preach atheism among my friends and relatives as the objective conditions have not yet been created. I however preach humanitarian and rational thinking and scientific outlooks as well. "e pothei alo jweley e pothei prithibir kromomukti hobey, se onek shotabdeer monishar kaaj"---Jibananada Das. No cruel hurry. "phul phutabi baas chhutabi sobur bihoney!"---Madan Baul.
So, please - no more blame, excuses, and double talks; try to analyze the root cause, if you can, and try to expose all evils of religion on humanity. Also, please don't tell me that some big-shot said - religion is the 'shuva-sanskar,' on earth, because I have seen enough of those shuvo-sanskars by now already. Don't show me anymore.-----Jiten Roy
---- It is easy to speak against religion bitterly in a limited forum, but the case is not same when it comes to a bigger world. You can take a pilot project to verify what I am saying. Rally against all the poojas and religious functions in your area. Stop this in your family and extended family. I will welcome you as a hero.
Let us not live in the ivory tower to show light to people beneath. Let us descend to the grass root levels and be a part of them in the enlightening and developmental process.
Jiten Roy
--- On Sun, 8/12/12, ram puniyani <jhang45@yahoo.com> wrote:
Condemnation of Attack on Media in Mumbai
We strongly and unequivocally condemn the attack on media in Mumbai by a section of people gathered at the Azad maidan to protest the violence in Assam and Burma. Using violence in a protest against violence is an insult to the suffering victims in whose support the protest was purportedly organised.
There are many non violent and democratic ways to communicate and protest any grievances, including against the media. This mindless and shameful action by a few misguided individuals discredits protest and becomes a disservice to a cause.
We offer our solidarity with media; sympathy with all those injured and wish for their quick recovery. We urge the government to take immediate and exemplary action against the guilty. We also appeal to all citizens not to get swayed by this isolated and dastardly incidence and allow the situation to become a cause of conflict. Any communalisation of the situation will be harmful for everyone and totally against the interests of the nation.
Lalita Ramdas- Ali Bagh
Mazher Hussain – Hyderabad
Admiral L. Ramdas- Ali Bagh
Mahesh Bhatt- Mumbai
Ram Punyani- Mumbai
Kamla Bhasin- Delhi
Sandeep Panday- Lucknow
Jatin Desai- Mumbai
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