However in that "Process", you turned me into a promoter of "Arabian culture". Which is NOT the case.
I am not happy with cultures my forefathers have practiced. Their cultures are inseparable from their religious beliefs
>>>>>>>>>>> Good for you. Most of cultural activities are not religious in nature and some of them are permitted within Islamic ideals. Therefore, Muslim Bengalis do practice what is allowed and avoid any type of activities that, requires to adding partners to our Creator. It has worked well for centuries for people.
I want a culture that will unite us all, irrespective of our religious beliefs.
>>>>>>>>>>>> We have plenty of "Common ground" between all people. Our beautiful language, history, future aspirations, love of our country etc. Surely we can build a nice society based on such common grounds. Even our honorable prime minister covers her head because it is her religious identity. On 7th March, Bangabandhu said, I am a Muslim and I am not afraid of death. Did not you get benifit of such wisdom?
Religion has potential to play positive roles in our country for ALL religious and anti-religious communities. We have to tolerate and respect different point of views. It is not about what "You" want rather what is good for our collective self.
Do you really think that - people who play Santa Clause with their children during Christmas season, and practice customary Valentine's Day to express love and affection to their loved ones are ignorant of roots or histories of these event? I don't think so at all; so, we have disagreement here as well.
>>>>>>>>>> I happen to know a fair bit about this topic. I know for SURE that, most are unaware that, 25th December is NOT even birthday of Jesus son of Mary (PBUH). Based on scholars ( I heard from one who worked with University of Chicago school of Divinity) Jesus was born sometime in Summer season (Based on description of position of stars given in the Bible). 25th December was picked from pagan Roman tradition. Here a little bit for your information....
[ Source: The Biblical Archaeology Society ]
Not only Christmas, Halloween, Valentine etc have NO Biblical roots. Rather it has pagan roots in these celebration.
Did you know that, the word "Trinity" is NOT found in the Bible? The concept of "Trinity" was added AFTER around 350 years Jesus left this world!!
According to the scriptures, Christians should follow only ONE God, like Jews and Muslims. It is all still in the Bible!!
You can ask your Christian co-workers or neighbors to "Educate" you on this issue.
Yes, like many non-practicing/ignorant Muslims in Bangladesh, they ignore the history behind such events. Often they are in sharp contrast with their religious teachings as well.
Now, did you know Jesus son of Mary NEVER offered his weekly prayers on Sunday? According to Biblical history Jesus was a practicing Jew and kept Sabbath. Which means he did his weekly rituals on Saturdays (like Jews do). Go verify this one as well. :-)
I believe - most youngsters of today are much more informed than our generational youngsters. As I said before, whole world is now open to the youngster, which was not the case when we were growing up. In other words, we were brought up in the well
>>>>>>>>>>> I am sorry to disappoint you Dr. Roy. I was very lucky to have some exceptional teachers and (out of may personal interest) spent some time on comparative religion. Therefore, I may know a bit more than your "Average Joe".
I consider myself fortunate to have such world class teachers.
As I said, I LOVE the spirit of our young people but sometime they are not informed. Some of them are more interested following treads than following history. I know most of us (If not all) made mistakes when we were very young. So I don't hold their ignorance against them. It is our job to share our knowledge with them and guide them to path of enlightened people.
On a different note, if any fellow members of Mukto-mona are interested to know more about what Christians scriptures says and difference between practice and scriptures. FEEL free to ask me, I'll be happy to share TONS of information about it.
Shalom!
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 18, 2013 10:19 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--Bhalobasha dibash--please see this article on Bhalobasha dibosh
From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--Bhalobasha dibash--please see this article on Bhalobasha dibosh
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, February 17, 2013, 1:56 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope, I have been VERY consistent about this point. I look at my God and His messenger (PBUH) for VALUES. I am comfortable with "My culture" and most of the time, they don't conflict.
Now please tell me where did I promote "Arabian custom and culture"?
I think it is all in your head at this point.
Valentine has it's root in pagan infused Europe. Just ask any common American (with knowledge) and you will discover about history of Valentine.
Shalom!
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Feb 18, 2013 12:28 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--Bhalobasha dibash--please see this article on Bhalobasha dibosh
You are such a confused person; you are unable to sort out religion from social culture/custom. For cultural affairs you look at Prophet, and come up with Arabian custom and culture.
--- On Sun, 2/17/13, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--Bhalobasha dibash--please see this article on Bhalobasha dibosh
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, February 17, 2013, 12:54 PM
>>>>>>>>>> One more time, you are IMPOSING a meaning on my words (Which was NOT intended).
I have NEVER said, Valentine wish makes me sad. I said watching people imitating without understanding what it means makes me sad.
>>>>>>>>>>> Nope, I don't endorse everything my forefathers did. But when it comes to our culture, I happen to like it. I like the fact, we are normally very tolerant of others. At the core, we are not a worrior nation rather we are peace loving bunch who have been liberal about most social issues.
As I said, I don't mind young men/women wishing Valentine BUT I do get sad that, most of them do not know history of the "Valentine day".
Few months ago, I said most students of Bangladesh should know basics of Ramayan and Mahabharata. I feel in order fully enjoy beauty of Bangla language, one should be aware of major events in those two stories. Similarly if one is familiar with stories of the Bible, it will help them understand history of many words frequently used (Like the holy grail, salvation etc).
I have been lamenting our ignorance NOT progress. (From your writing) it seems you have made up your mind about people who speaks up in support of religion and frequently love to "Sprinkle" those assumptions on people who differs from you about religion.
I have studied life of prophet Muhammad (PBUH) several times. He was a liberal activist of his time. He spoke up against the savage practice of killing new born baby girls (India still murder millions of baby girl because they prefer boys over girls). He spoke up about animal rights (Not to put too much load on camels for example). He spoke up about environment (Against wasting water, against unnecessarily cutting trees etc). He gave specific instruction against targeting old people, women and children during wars (Which Pakistani army violated in a major way during 1971).
If you read Islamophobes first to learn about Islam, you will cheat yourself from some great wisdom.
Gotta to have an open mind to UNDERSTAND a different point of view. ;-)
Shalom!
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Feb 17, 2013 12:27 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--Bhalobasha dibash--please see this article on Bhalobasha dibosh
"I am a bit sad, that we are imitating stuff we don't even understand (Talking about Muslims primarily)."
--- On Sat, 2/16/13, QR <qrahman@netscape.net> wrote:
From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--Bhalobasha dibash--please see this article on Bhalobasha dibosh
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, February 16, 2013, 9:31 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Nope, I clearly SAID, I did not want to live in a "Cocoon". I don't think you read my post but "Assumed" I am asking to "Ban" valentine's day.
I ONLY said, most people are Muslims and Islam prohibits such practices, so LOGICALLY most people should not be taking part in it. I know plenty of non-practicing Muslims and non-Muslims who celebrate this day.
To me, it simply makes my smile that, we speak so much about our language, culture etc but soooooooooo eager to mimic customs/tradition we don't even understand!!
This is a sign of ignorance and immaturity from our "Collective self". As if we need endorsement from someone about our civility, culture and tradition. Personally I am comfortable with my language (Bangla), religion, culture and tradition. So while I smile when people send Valentine wishes and (At the same time) I am a bit sad, that we are imitating stuff we don't even understand (Talking about Muslims primarily).
You are majority in one country, but minority in other countries. Think about it when you talk about your own interests.
>>>>>>>> Yeah, I know that doc. ;-)
But it seems you did not understand what has been said. ONCE again only answering based on your assumptions.
FACT is I have NOT asked to ban Valentine (Said clearly in my post).
I only commented on our (Muslims!) ignorance and stupidity.
If Valentine's day, makes you a happier person, feel free to celebrate. I simply discussed roots on this tradition.
Hope we are clear here. :-)
Shalom!
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Feb 15, 2013 2:03 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--Bhalobasha dibash--please see this article on Bhalobasha dibosh
From: QR <qrahman@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--Bhalobasha dibash--please see this article on Bhalobasha dibosh
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, February 14, 2013, 12:28 PM
Having said that, I am not for putting us in a "Cocoon" either.
Once again, we live in a country ( Bangladesh) where 85% of the population are follower of Islam. The very concept of "Valentines" day (Came from St. Valentine) has it's roots in idolatry. Which is forbidden in Islam.
I am more than sure most kids don't even know about this. Therefore, one more time (I know I sound like a broken record here) we HAVE to educate our people. I feel once they know the roots of Valentines day and Halloween nights, they will reject it.
With due respect, I would request member Hannan not to go after America in everything. Americans did NOT force Bangladesh to accept this day. It is our lack of education and understanding that makes us look like idiots when we blindly follow customs we do not understand.
ALSO, I see Jammat-e-Islami identifies itself as an "Islamist" party. ( Maybe you know this) It is interesting that, this term was coined by a well known liberal Zionist and journalist Thomas Freedman ( I read and listen to him as well). This term (Islamist) is used negatively in the western media and often use to describe "Enemies of the western" civilization.
NOTHING can be further from the truth. I don't think Islam belongs to any political party and if any political party want to serve Islam from their hearts, they should follow it VERY strictly. If any party cannot guarantee strict adherence to Qur'an and Sunnah,it is safer not to identify themselves as "An Islamist party".
Also most of the Islamist parties are in the hit list of western countries, so it is better to identify a little differently unless you want to get hit by them in near future.
As I mentioned before, to most Muslims a "Fundamentalist" Muslim (Who practice fundamentals of Islam) is a positive thing. In the west, they see fundamentalist followers of any religion in a bad way ( It is more to do with puritan Christians and their fanatical violence than what Islam teachers us).
It is unfortunate that, most of our journalists blindly follow western terminologies without understand CONTEXT of those terms. Similarly a good portion of our young people blindly follow "St. Valentine's day" without having any clue about it's roots in idolatry.
Lastly, I am sure Islam is a beautiful "Life style" and violence against innocent people have no place in it. It also give ample space to people to "Love each other" without making a "Public event" out of it.
We should love each other to establish peace and brotherhood (And sisterhood) among humanity. No need to pick ONE day for it. We can do it everyday and our good actions towards each other can do wonders than commercially brought flowers.
Shalom!
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 14, 2013 10:04 pm
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--Bhalobasha dibash--please see this article on Bhalobasha dibosh
From: SAHANNAN <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--Bhalobasha dibash--please see this article on Bhalobasha dibosh
To: "'sahannan'" <sahannan@yahoogroups.com>, dahuk@yahoogroups.com, inquisitive_sisters@yahoogroups.com, mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com, "'Khobor'" <khabor@yahoogroups.com>, chottala@yahoogroups.com, lutfulb2000@yahoo.com
Date: Thursday, February 14, 2013, 12:34 AM
ভালোবাসা দিবস' আমাদের সংস্কৃতি নয়
শাহ আবদুল হান্নান
যাকে নির্দোষ আনন্দ মনে করা হচ্ছে, তার শিকড় যে পৌত্তলিকতায় প্রোথিত হতে পারে, এটা ওরা বোঝেনই না। যে প্রতীকগুলো তারা আঁকড়ে ধরেছেন, সেগুলো হয়তো বা (ধর্মীয়) অবিশ্বাসের প্রতীক। আর যে ধ্যানধারণা তারা ধার নিয়েছেন, তা হতে পারে কুসংস্কার। এসব কিছু হয়তো ইসলামের শিক্ষার সম্পূর্ণ পরিপন্থী।
'ভালোবাসা দিবস'-এর প্রচলন ইউরোপের বেশির ভাগ দেশ থেকে স্বাভাবিকভাবেই উঠে গিয়েছিল। তবে ব্রিটেন ও যুক্তরাষ্ট্রে এটা উদযাপিত হতো। দিবসটি হঠাৎ করে বহু মুসলিম দেশে গজিয়ে উঠেছে। ভালোবাসা দিবসের উৎপত্তি নিয়ে কাহিনী-কিংবদন্তি প্রচুর। এটা স্পষ্ট, খ্রিষ্টপূর্ব চতুর্থ শতাব্দীতে রোমানরা এটা শুরু করেছিল পৌত্তলিক পার্বণ হিসেবে। 'উর্বরতা ও জনসমষ্টির দেবতা' লুপারকাসের সম্মানেই এটা করা হতো। এর প্রধান আকর্ষণ ছিল লটারি। 'বিনোদন ও আনন্দে'র জন্য যুবকদের মাঝে যুবতীদের বণ্টন করে দেয়াই ছিল এ লটারির লক্ষ্য। পরবর্তী বছর আবার লটারি না হওয়া পর্যন্ত যুবকেরা এ 'সুযোগ' পেত।
ভালোবাসা দিবসের নামে আরেকটি ঘৃণ্য প্রথা ছিল যুবতীদের প্রহার করা। সামান্য ছাগলের চামড়া পরিহিত দুই যুবক একই চামড়ার তৈরি বেত দিয়ে এ নির্যাতন চালাত। উৎসর্গিত ছাগল ও কুকুরের রক্তে এই যুবকদের শরীর থাকত রঞ্জিত। এ ধরনের 'পবিত্র ব্যক্তি'দের 'পবিত্র' বেতের একটি আঘাত খেলে যুবতীরা আরো ভালোভাবে গর্ভধারণ করতে পারবে বলে বিশ্বাস করা হতো।
খ্রিষ্টধর্ম এই কুপ্রথা বন্ধ করার চেষ্টা চালিয়ে ব্যর্থ হয়। এ প্রয়াসের অংশ হিসেবে প্রথমে মেয়েদের বদলে সন্ন্যাসীদের নামে লটারি চালু হলো। মনে করা হয়েছিল, এর ফলে যুবকেরা তাদের জীবনকে অনুসরণ করবে। খ্রিষ্টধর্ম এ ক্ষেত্রে শুধু একটুকুই সফল হলো যে, ভালোবাসা দিবসের নাম 'লুপারক্যালিয়া' থেকে 'ভ্যালেন্টাইন ডে' হয়েছে। গেলাসিয়াস নামের পোপ ৪৯৬ খ্রিষ্টাব্দে এটা করেন সেইন্ট ভ্যালেন্টাইন নামের সন্ন্যাসীর সম্মানার্থে। তবে ৫০ জন ভ্যালেন্টাইনের কথা শোনা যায়। তাদের মধ্যে মাত্র দু'জন সমধিক পরিচিত। অবশ্য তাদের জীবন ও আচরণ রহস্যাবৃত। একটি মত অনুসারে, ভ্যালেন্টাইন ছিলেন 'প্রেমিকের সন্ন্যাসী', তিনি একবার কারাবন্দী হয়েছিলেন। কিন্তু পড়ে যান কারাগারের অধিকর্তার কন্যার প্রেমে।
লটারি নিয়ে মারাত্মক সঙ্কট দেখা দেয়ায় ফরাসি সরকার ১৭৭৬ খ্রিষ্টাব্দে ভ্যালেন্টাইন দিবস উদযাপন নিষিদ্ধ করে দেয়। এ দিকে সময়ের সাথে সাথে একপর্যায়ে ইতালি, অস্ট্রিয়া, হাঙ্গেরি ও জার্মানি থেকে দিবসটি বিদায় নেয়। সপ্তদশ শতকে পিউরিটানেরা যখন বেশ প্রভাবশালী ছিল, তখন ইংল্যান্ডেও ভালোবাসা দিবস নিষিদ্ধ ঘোষণা করা হয়েছিল। পরে ১৬৬০ খ্রিষ্টাব্দে রাজা দ্বিতীয় চার্লস আবার এটি পালনের প্রথা চালু করেন।
ইংল্যান্ড থেকে ভ্যালেন্টাইন গেল 'নতুন দুনিয়া'য়; অর্থাৎ আমেরিকায়। সেখানে উৎসাহী ইয়াঙ্কিরা পয়সা কামানোর বড় সুযোগ খুঁজে পেল এর মাঝে।
Monday, February 18, 2013
Re: [mukto-mona] : Shah Abdul Hannan--Bhalobasha dibash--please see this article on Bhalobasha dibosh
. I have the right to express mine.
>>>>>>>>> Absolutely you do sir!
• 12/07/2012
A blanket of snow covers the little town of Bethlehem, in Pieter Bruegel's oil painting from 1566. Although Jesus' birth is celebrated every year on December 25, Luke and the other gospel writers offer no hint about the specific time of year he was born. Scala/Art Resource, NY
On December 25, Christians around the world will gather to celebrate Jesus' birth. Joyful carols, special liturgies, brightly wrapped gifts, festive foods—these all characterize the feast today, at least in the northern hemisphere. But just how did the Christmas festival originate? How did December 25 come to be associated with Jesus' birthday?
The Bible offers few clues: Celebrations of Jesus' Nativity are not mentioned in the Gospels or Acts; the date is not given, not even the time of year. The biblical reference to shepherds tending their flocks at night when they hear the news of Jesus' birth (Luke 2:8) might suggest the spring lambing season; in the cold month of December, on the other hand, sheep might well have been corralled. Yet most scholars would urge caution about extracting such a precise but incidental detail from a narrative whose focus is theological rather than calendrical.
The extrabiblical evidence from the first and second century is equally spare: There is no mention of birth celebrations in the writings of early Christian writers such as Irenaeus (c. 130–200) or Tertullian (c. 160–225). Origen of Alexandria (c. 165–264) goes so far as to mock Roman celebrations of birth anniversaries, dismissing them as "pagan" practices—a strong indication that Jesus' birth was not marked with similar festivities at that place and time.1 As far as we can tell, Christmas was not celebrated at all at this point.
-----Original Message-----
"I am comfortable with "My culture" and most of the time, they don't conflict......Valentine has it's root in pagan infused Europe. Just ask any common American (with knowledge) and you will discover about history of Valentine."
Well, if you think cultures of our forefathers are OK with you, that's your opinion. You have right to do so. I have the right to express mine.
I am not happy with cultures my forefathers have practiced. Their cultures are inseparable from their religious beliefs. Such cultures can only separate communities further apart. I want a culture that will unite us all, irrespective of our religious beliefs. With your mentality, it will be impossible to do.
Do you really think that - people who play Santa Clause with their children during Christmas season, and practice customary Valentine's Day to express love and affection to their loved ones are ignorant of roots or histories of these event? I don't think so at all; so, we have disagreement here as well.
I believe - most youngsters of today are much more informed than our generational youngsters. As I said before, whole world is now open to the youngster, which was not the case when we were growing up. In other words, we were brought up in the well, with very little touch of the outside world. That's the reality many people do not understand or do not want to understand. Many of those people are desperately trying to hold back their children in their parochial views of the world where they were brought up, meaning in their so called Never Land, where nobody ever grows up. All I want to say to them is - Good Luck.
Thanks.
Jiten Roy
For cultural affairs you look at Prophet, and come up with Arabian custom and culture.
-----Original Message-----
Jiten Roy
How could Valentine's Day wish makes you sad? How could any good wishes such as
The thought that whatever our parents and forefathers did in the past were the best in the world is a status quo mentality that is anti progress and reform.
-----Original Message-----
That sums up your inner self. You are doing something that you don't want to do. Let me explain - not long ago, open communication between a young boy and a girl was a taboo in our society; parents would hold off feelings of love between them in front of children out of fear that children may learn from them. It was kind of forbidden affairs; I am talking about display of love and affection for one another. But, things are changing for the good, in my view.
Unfortunately, such changes bring sadness in you, because you prefer, unknowingly though, to stay in the cocoon, even though you do not want to.
How could Valentine's Day wish makes you sad? How could any good wishes such as - Happy Valentine, Merry Christmas, Salam, Eid Mubarak, Namaskar, etc. make somebody sad? Did you realize what really happened to you? You are unfortunately trapped in a cocoon, my friend.
The thought that whatever our parents and forefathers did in the past were the best in the world is a status quo mentality that is anti progress and reform. Well, the cat is out of the door now. Young generation depends more on the worldwide web for guidance on character and morality, and less on religious preachers, like yourself, and parents; you can feel sad about the whole thing all day, but you can't reverse it.
Thanks.
Jiten Roy
Let me understand, Valentine's Day is rooted in idolatry, and Bangladesh has 85% Muslim population, so - there is no place for Valentine Day in Bangladesh. Is that the logic?
-----Original Message-----
"Once again, we live in a country ( Bangladesh) where 85% of the population are follower of Islam. The very concept of "Valentines" day (Came from St. Valentine) has it's roots in idolatry. Which is forbidden in Islam."
Let me understand, Valentine's Day is rooted in idolatry, and Bangladesh has 85% Muslim population, so - there is no place for Valentine Day in Bangladesh. Is that the logic?
Now, you have to force Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, and all other idolaters not to celebrate it in Bangladesh?
Yes, it's a Christian tradition, so what? Bangladesh has Christians also, and they have the right to celebrate it, no matter how small their number is. And, if others want to participate – they should be able to do it. I do not understand – what that has to do with 85% Muslim population in Bangladesh. As you know, nobody is forcing anybody to celebrate this day; nobody asks Muslims to celebrate it either. Couldn't you leave it to the peoples' choice?
I hear this 85% Muslim population argument quite frequently. Every country has majority and minority groups in the population. You are majority in one country, but minority in other countries. Think about it when you talk about your own interests.
Thanks.
Jiten Roy
It is certain that, this was "Imported" by Mr. Shafiq Rehman (Of Jai Jai din magazine) into Bangladesh. This "Day of love" was NOT practiced by our forefathers. They still loved each other strongly.
-----Original Message-----
Brother, you said - "A Day of Love" is not our culture. How can I agree with you? Of course we can embrace some other culture, if it is a right one. I don't think you mean that - our culture does not permit a day of love. If you do, I want to remind you, humbly, that - you are following a wrong culture.
I have always asked this question to myself as a young man - why our society has imposed so many restrictions on the display of love. It never felt right. I thought - we are losing the ability to express our love for one another. Let's not get trapped in a cocoon of culture that does not promote love. If our society has done something wrong - let's correct it, instead of repeating the mistake. To make that correction, I am willing to adopt any alien culture.
Thanks.
Jiten Roy
গত কয়েক বছর ধরে বাংলাদেশে 'ভ্যালেন্টাইন ডে' বা 'ভালোবাসা দিবস' নামে নতুন একটি দিবস উদযাপন করা হচ্ছে। আগে শুধু এ দেশেই নয়, বেশির ভাগ মুসলিম দেশেই এটা পালিত হতো না। হোটেল মালিকসহ ব্যবসায়ীদের একটি অংশও ব্যবসায়িক মুনাফার স্বার্থে এতে উৎসাহ জোগাচ্ছেন। 'ভালোবাসা দিবসে'র ইতিহাস ও ভিত্তি কী? ড. খালিদ বেগ এ বিষয়ে বিস্তারিত আলোকপাত করেছেন। সেখান থেকে কিছু কথা তুলে ধরা জরুরি। বিজাতীয় সংস্কৃতি চর্চা করছেন যেসব মুসলমান, তাদের বেশির ভাগই জানেন না যে, আসলে তারা কী করছেন। তারা অন্ধভাবে অনুকরণ করছেন তাদের সাংস্কৃতিক নেতাদের, যারা তাদের মতোই অন্ধ।