RE: [mukto-mona] Re: The sprit of Bangalee nationalism?

Dear members, Neither the Quranic verse quoted by Mr Kamal Das or any other verse in the Quran says that language is the basis of nationalism.Quran says in Sura Rum that language is a sign of God ( Creator)

Shah Abdul Hannan

 

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From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kamal Das
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 9:18 AM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: The sprit of Bangalee nationalism?

 

 

  In the Holy Quran, Allah says in the Surah Ibrahim;

And We have sent no Messenger
        save with the tongue of his people,
                that he might make all clear to them;
then God leads astray whomsoever He will,
and He guides whomsoever He will;
and He is the All-mighty, the All-wise. S. 14:4 Arberry

When Allah says, 'we' have sent messengers to people of every language, he insists that he is not the lone god and anybody preaching in Arabic is not sent for people speaking other languages.  These 'illiterate mullahs' don't even read their own scriptures, and their interpretations are also unacceptable.  That's why Prince Darah Shuko wrote, "Paradise is there/ where no mullah exists-// Where the noise of his discussions and debate is not heard.//  May the world be free from the noise of mulla,// And none should pay any heed to his decrees!// In the city where a mulla resides,/ No wise man ever stays//" [Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Bengal, vol.5(1), p.168]  One may also find the reference in 'Sources of Indian Tradition(2nd ed.), vol.1, edited and revised by Ainslie T. Embree, p. 473.

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 12:31 PM, qar <qrahman@aim.com> wrote:

 

It is written, Islam is exclusively for the people who speak Arabic

>>>>>>>> I am afraid, I am hearing this for the first time. If this was the case why did prophet Muhammad (PBUH) sent people to preach Islam to all corners of the world? In fact religions BEFORE Islam came to specific communities BUT Islam came for ALL of humanities. This is what I understand about Islam. 

 

Having said that, I am always up for learning new things. Therefore, kindly share the SOURCE of your statement. Where in Islam says it came for Arabs only? Appreciate your earliest attention!!

 

Religion is nothing more than a conspiracy of the priesthood

 

>>>>>>>>>> That was the complaint about religions BEFORE Islam ( Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism etc). Islam does not give much power to priesthood. 

 

The almighty God has not even revealed the correct structure of the universe to the proponents of religion

 

 

>>>>>>>> This is a popular argument about the Bible (OT AND NT). Not about Islam. I would encourage you to be a little more original. Anyone can cut and paste, can you back up your statements (With sources from religious scriptures)? 

 

Take care!! 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 29, 2011 1:05 am
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: The sprit of Bangalee nationalism?

 

I would like to add that those people who want others to believe that religion is the strongest bond of nationhood has not studied religious literature properly.  It is written, Islam is exclusively for the people who speak Arabic.  Religion is nothing more than a conspiracy of the priesthood.  They survive and thrive on the tithes extracted from their followers.  The almighty God has not even revealed the correct structure of the universe to the proponents of religion.  One twenty inch telescope revealed more to Galileo than all the angels did to the prophets.

On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com> wrote:

Nationalism is the last refuge of scoundrels, wrote a savant named Samuel Johnson.

 

On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:48 AM, S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com> wrote:

 

 

Mr Shubimol Chakrabarty, yes, religion is the strongest bond of nationhood  compared to other bonds .Mr Jinnah said that Muslim majority areas should form independent state and Hindu majority areas of subcontinent should form another state and in both states  minorities would remain there with all human rights.

Shah Abdul Hannan

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From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of subimal chakrabarty
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 7:17 AM

To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: The sprit of Bangalee nationalism?

 

 

Pretty funny! What kind of statement is this? 

What about the bondage between Muslims and Hindus of Bangladesh? Is it "thin"? Do they belong to "Bangladeshi jati"? 

Do Hindus of West Bengal and Muslims of West Bengal belong to "Indian jati"? Is it "thin" or "thick"? 

I think the purpose of Mr. Hannan's statement is to fish in the troubled waters. He is thinking more in terms of religious divide. This reminds me of Jinnah's Two-Nation Theory. Mr. Hannan seems to be talking in the same line. According to Jinnah all the Indian Hindus constituted one nation and all the Indian Muslims constituted another nation. He forgot about other religious groups.

Pretty funny!  

Mr. Hannan should recognize that religion is only one element (it may even be absent) in the structure of a nation. Hindu majority India and Hindu majority Nepal did not form one nation. All the Christian dominated countries in Europe did not form one nation. 

 

From: S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 10:46 AM
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Re: The sprit of Bangalee nationalism?

 

There is no Bangalee Jati as there is no Gujrati jati or Bihari jati or punjabi Jati  Bond of unity of bangla speaking Muslims of Bangladesh and Banglaspeaking Hindus of West bengal is very thin.They belong to Bangladeshi jati or Indian jati respectively. For becoming jati you require much stronger bond.

 

Shah Abdul hannan

 

From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com [mailto: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jiten Roy
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 8:44 AM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: The sprit of Bangalee nationalism?

 

 

I do not know if there is a perfect English translation for the Bengali word “Jati.” As a Jati - we are Bangalee, irrespective of our religious affiliations, castes, and creeds. Bangalee-Jati is our secular cultural identity. The Bangalee-Jatiotabad consists of certain secular characteristics, such as, we celebrate Pahela-Boishakh, Bashata-Baran, Ekushe-February (February 21st), etc. etc. with cultural, and ritualistic activities. There are other festivities and practices, which used to be celebrated widely, irrespective of religious affiliations, but now mainly scattered fashion. They are Poush-Sangcranti, celebrated with varieties of Cakes (Pithas), Chaitra-Sangcranti, celebrated with cultural activities and fairs, Maghi-Purnima, etc. etc.  Bangalee-Jatiotabad, being above and beyond our religious characteristics, is the glue that can unite the majority under a true secular platform.   Closest English word for ‘Jatiotabad’ is Nationalism; I know it does not completely express the full meaning of the term Jatiotabad, as we mean. That’s where the confusion comes from. Bangalee-Jatiotabad or Bengali-Nationalism is not a state entity. But, state has to allow free exercise of those secular rights and characteristics, and state has to nourish it to flourish. Non-Bangalees have their own secular Jatiotabad, and they should be allowed to exercise them freely also.   If I have misconception, please let me know.   I appreciate all your comments. Thanks.   Jiten Roy   --- On Sat, 9/24/11, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote: From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: The sprit of Bangalee nationalism? To: " mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com " < mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, September 24, 2011, 7:01 PM   "-------------and nationalism is a cultural identity, which reflects majority cultural."----Dr. Jiten Roy   Let us take an example to examine Dr. Roy's comment. Nationality of Indians is Indian which indicates that their nationality is Indian. No problem with that. But which group of people constitutes the majority and what is this majority group's culture? Are these the people in the Hindi belt? Obviously not. Even being an Indian by nationality, a Bengali or an Assamese is a Bengali or an Assamese. Even within the subset of Bengal ( West Bengal ), we cannot force a Gorkha to identify himself as a Bengali. If the Gorkhas are culturally, linguistically, and historically distinct from Bengalis, why should we force them to call themselves Bengalis?     "There is no issue of fairness in nationalism."---Dr. Jiten Roy   It will be quite unfair to force a Chakma to call himself a Bengali as this very word reflects language, culture, and history. Politically he is a "citizen of Bangladesh " but culturally a Chakma. The majority has no right to force a Chakma to accept a Bengali's cultural identity. This is not only unfair, this is coercive also.   "There has been an orchestrated attempt to alter our cultural identity (Bangalee) in this region during Pakistani era, and it is still going on in Bangladesh ."----Dr. Jien Roy   I agree. Pakistani regimes tried to redefine Bengalis in East Pakistan as Pakistanis. That was a political game with India . But what is going on now? I would expect some elaboration. Regards. From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2011 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: The sprit of Bangalee nationalism?   Everybody is missing my point. I am simply asking - what is our cultural identity, not our religious identity or nationality?    Nationality and nationalism are two different things. Nationality is citizenship, and nationalism is a cultural identity, which reflects majority cultural. There is no issue of fairness in nationalism. There has been an orchestrated attempt to alter our cultural identity (Bangalee) in this region during Pakistani era, and it is still going on in Bangladesh .   Jiten Roy --- On Thu, 9/22/11, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> Subject: [mukto-mona] Re: The sprit of Bangalee nationalism? To: " mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com " < mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, September 22, 2011, 10:29 PM   Bangladesh is a political entity, as opposed to a cultural one. May be, Najrul Islam's Bangla Desh and Ravindranath's Sonar Bangla were cultural, and those included more than the political entity of Bangladesh ; they also excluded at least the Chittagong Hill Tracts, which is a part of today's political Bangladesh .   Citizenship (nationality) is not cultural. I wish the secular politicians and intellectuals of  Bangladesh did not start this non-sense of Bangalee nationalism in 1971-72. It was wrong to ask the CHT people to call themselves Bangalees. Again, Bangalee nationalism was not really the spirit of all movements during 1947-71, and should not have been unless if we wanted to merge with West Bengal and allowed CHT to secede from us. Fairness, respect and dignity for Bangla and the Bangalees should not be considered the same as Bangalee nationalism. Bangalee nationalism would have demanded a separate nation for the Bangalees, even if the western Pakistanis treated the Bangalees with due respect. Our real spirit was no nationalism; it was fairness, respect and dignity for us.   Citizenship for anyone who seeks it? It is not done anywhere in the world. All countries have their laws to govern how a non-citizen would be given citizenship.   I would not ask Awami League to revive the so-called Bangalee nationalism (citizenship), rather I would ask them to respect all peoples of the land with respect; much like I would not ask them to call all Bangladeshis Muslims, much like I would not ask all Indians to be known as Hindus, much like I would not desire all cultural, linguistic and ethnic groups of the United States to be called Christians or English.   Well, so long for now,   Sukhamaya Bain   From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 9:35 PM Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] HAVOC CREATED BY JAMATI'S !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Dr. Bain’s comments tells me that, in my last sarcastic comments, I did not clarify my points enough; hence confusions. I was looking for a cultural identity for the people of Bangladesh . I explored 3 conventional identities (Bangalee, Bangladeshi, and Moderate Muslim), which have been used in the past to represent the people of Bangladesh . But, none of them seemed to encompass all people. As a result, the identity crisis still remains, and we do not know who we are. After Bangladesh was born, our cultural identity (Jatiota) was Bangalee, and our nationality was also Banglalee. Ershad changed our nationality to Bangladeshi. The motive was to include all the people of Bangladesh , so he told us at that time. Was it really the motive? If that was true – all non-Bangalee Biharis should have been citizen by now, and Father Tim, the former Principal of Notre Dame College, would have been citizen already. If you say that our nationality is Bangladeshi - then we should grant citizenship to any permanent resident of Bangladesh , if they seek one. In my view, it was done purposefully to defuse pre-independence secular mindset, and neutralize the Bangalee-Jatiotabadi spirit, the spirit of independence movement. As you know, Quranic verses and state religion (Islam) were also introduced in the secular constitution right around that time. Dr. Bain, Bangalee-Jatiotabadi spirit has been the driving force behind all movements in the East Pakistan since the language movement in 1952. Even though Sheikh Mujib was not seeking independence at the beginning, but his movement was fueled by the Bangali-Jatiotabadi spirit. This is the spirit that still can unite the mjority in Bangladesh . That's why - I have been asking Awami League to revive that spirit for their sake.   Thanks for your comments. Love to hear from you. Don’t be a stranger.   Jiten Roy ---

 

 

 

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