It is like an American speaking English not being referred to as an Englishman. We live in a nation curved out by Cecil Radcliffe, as said Dr. Kamal Sidique, a former secretary, in a personal conversation with me about twenty years ago. We can call ourselves Bangladeshis as long as we are not fully grown into the size of the former Bengal Presidency.
What does that mean Mr. SA Hannan? When your passport say you are Bangladeshi, how the heck would a foreigner would know you other than how you introduce yourself. So silly!!!! That does not mean we are not Bangalee. Arabic speaking people are Arab, English speaking people are English, Spanish speaking people are Spanish; that ususally indicates ones ethnicity and true nationality. Anyway, the whole topic is silly in my mind. You can keep on going on it. Got that Mr. SA Hannan?
-Russel
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
From: sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 07:07:18 +0600
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Re: The sprit of Bangalee nationalism?Whenever we go outside the country we call ourselves Bangladeshi, not Bangalee.Nobody outside the country knows Bangalee, they know only Bangladeshi or Indian.
Whenever we go outside the country we call ourselves Bangladeshi, not Bangalee.Nobody outside the country knows Bangalee, they know only Bangladeshi or Indian.
Shah Abdul Hannan
From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of subimal chakrabarty
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 8:56 AM
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: The sprit of Bangalee nationalism?
JitenDa
We are sitting on one thing for too long. Let me make my last observation on it.
I have never seen a Bengali from Bangladesh/India saying that I am a Bangladeshi Bengali/Indian Bengali. The adjective is not required at all. We all are proud to say that I am a Bengali whenever and wherever it is appropriate.
Rgds.
Subimal
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: The sprit of Bangalee nationalism?
"I have some more explainin' to do," as Mr. Obama will say, when he speaks to his ethnic audiences. I thought - the first and the last sentences in my last post have expressed my views on this subject, but, apparently, it didn't.
My answer to Subimal's comments:
I do not want to lump any other ethnic groups into Banglalee Jati. In fact, it's quite contrary. I said every Jati should maintain its integrity, no matter where they live. A Sawtal in Bangladesh is Bangladeshi-Sawtal; a Sawtal in India is Indian-Sawtal, etc. etc. Jati is our ethnic identity. Preserving one's ethnic identity is very important, especially when there are so many other factors that divide us. Ethnic identity is our true secular/apolitical identity. It should not be taken so lightly. People with different religious/non-religious/political affiliations can unite under their ethnic identity. For example, Bangalee Jati consists of people with various religious (Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Buddha, etc.), non-religious (Atheists, Agnostics, etc. etc.), and political affiliations (Awami League, BNP, Jamat, etc.).
West Pakistani regime hated our 'Bangalee-Jatiota.' They knew, someday, that will be their Achilles' Hill. They tried their best to overpower Bangalee-Jatiotabadi Spirit with the religious zeal, but failed. They failed because most people in this part of the land subscribe to secular, not religious, ideals, and most Bangalees are akin to the secular spirit of Bangalee-Jatiotabad. I believe - they still do. I know many of you do not agree with my view.
When some one ask - are you Bangalee?
I will say "YES," but, you will say - "NO, I am Bangladeshi."
Therefore, we have to agree to disagree here.
Thanks guys.
Jiten Roy
--- On Mon, 9/26/11, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: The sprit of Bangalee nationalism?
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, September 26, 2011, 9:21 PM
JitenDa
Looks like you want to wipe out the concepts "Chakma", "Gorkha", and so on! You are forcing them to wear "Bengali" tokma.
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: The sprit of Bangalee nationalism?
We recognize Chakma, Sawtal, Garoo, etc. etc. as various Jatis, and I am sure they have no trouble recognizing us as Bangalee. In fact they do. It seems like some Bangalees are having trouble recognizing their own Jati. Our Jati does not change based on our citizenship. We are always Bangalee wherever we live. The right way to address this issue is as follows: a Bangalee, living in Bangladesh, is Bangladeshi-Bangalee; a Bangalee, living in Parchimbanga, is Indian-Bangalee; a Bangalee, living in the USA, is American-Bangalee; etc., etc., and the same is true for all other Jatis also.
Jiten Roy
--- On Mon, 9/26/11, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: The sprit of Bangalee nationalism?
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, September 26, 2011, 7:05 PM
I wish everybody wthin the Bangladesh borders would be happy to call himself a Bengali. Do you really think that a Chakma will from his heart accept this? I don't think so. They have their own language, culture, and tradition quite distinct from ours. Then why should I be so chauvinistic? I am a citizen of Bangladesh and so he is. Both of us are Bangladeshi if we are not allergic to this desgination. But I am a Bengali and he is a Chakma. I don't see any conflict.
Ekushe February is a national event. It has a broader significance. It has been recognized and is every year celebrated by UNESCO. Chakmas should not have any problem in celebrating this along with the Bengalis. The spirit of Ekushey is to respect the mother language of every aspiring national entity however small it may be.
Similar argument applies to Gorkhas living in West bengal.
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: The sprit of Bangalee nationalism?
I do not know if there is a perfect English translation for the Bengali word "Jati." As a Jati - we are Bangalee, irrespective of our religious affiliations, castes, and creeds. Bangalee-Jati is our secular cultural identity. The Bangalee-Jatiotabad consists of certain secular characteristics, such as, we celebrate Pahela-Boishakh, Bashata-Baran, Ekushe-February (February 21st), etc. etc. with cultural, and ritualistic activities. There are other festivities and practices, which used to be celebrated widely, irrespective of religious affiliations, but now mainly scattered fashion. They are Poush-Sangcranti, celebrated with varieties of Cakes (Pithas), Chaitra-Sangcranti, celebrated with cultural activities and fairs, Maghi-Purnima, etc. etc. Bangalee-Jatiotabad, being above and beyond our religious characteristics, is the glue that can unite the majority under a true secular platform.
Closest English word for 'Jatiotabad' is Nationalism; I know it does not completely express the full meaning of the term Jatiotabad, as we mean. That's where the confusion comes from. Bangalee-Jatiotabad or Bengali-Nationalism is not a state entity. But, state has to allow free exercise of those secular rights and characteristics, and state has to nourish it to flourish. Non-Bangalees have their own secular Jatiotabad, and they should be allowed to exercise them freely also.
If I have misconception, please let me know.
I appreciate all your comments. Thanks.
Jiten Roy
--- On Sat, 9/24/11, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: The sprit of Bangalee nationalism?
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, September 24, 2011, 7:01 PM
"-------------and nationalism is a cultural identity, which reflects majority cultural."----Dr. Jiten Roy
Let us take an example to examine Dr. Roy's comment. Nationality of Indians is Indian which indicates that their nationality is Indian. No problem with that. But which group of people constitutes the majority and what is this majority group's culture? Are these the people in the Hindi belt? Obviously not. Even being an Indian by nationality, a Bengali or an Assamese is a Bengali or an Assamese. Even within the subset of Bengal (West Bengal), we cannot force a Gorkha to identify himself as a Bengali. If the Gorkhas are culturally, linguistically, and historically distinct from Bengalis, why should we force them to call themselves Bengalis?
"There is no issue of fairness in nationalism."---Dr. Jiten Roy
It will be quite unfair to force a Chakma to call himself a Bengali as this very word reflects language, culture, and history. Politically he is a "citizen of Bangladesh" but culturally a Chakma. The majority has no right to force a Chakma to accept a Bengali's cultural identity. This is not only unfair, this is coercive also.
"There has been an orchestrated attempt to alter our cultural identity (Bangalee) in this region during Pakistani era, and it is still going on in Bangladesh."----Dr. Jien Roy
I agree. Pakistani regimes tried to redefine Bengalis in East Pakistan as Pakistanis. That was a political game with India. But what is going on now? I would expect some elaboration. Regards.
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2011 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Re: The sprit of Bangalee nationalism?
Everybody is missing my point. I am simply asking - what is our cultural identity, not our religious identity or nationality?
Nationality and nationalism are two different things. Nationality is citizenship, and nationalism is a cultural identity, which reflects majority cultural. There is no issue of fairness in nationalism. There has been an orchestrated attempt to alter our cultural identity (Bangalee) in this region during Pakistani era, and it is still going on in Bangladesh.
Jiten Roy --- On Thu, 9/22/11, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] Re: The sprit of Bangalee nationalism?
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, September 22, 2011, 10:29 PM
Bangladesh is a political entity, as opposed to a cultural one. May be, Najrul Islam's Bangla Desh and Ravindranath's Sonar Bangla were cultural, and those included more than the political entity of Bangladesh ; they also excluded at least the Chittagong Hill Tracts, which is a part of today's political Bangladesh .
Citizenship (nationality) is not cultural. I wish the secular politicians and intellectuals of Bangladesh did not start this non-sense of Bangalee nationalism in 1971-72. It was wrong to ask the CHT people to call themselves Bangalees. Again, Bangalee nationalism was not really the spirit of all movements during 1947-71, and should not have been unless if we wanted to merge with West Bengal and allowed CHT to secede from us. Fairness, respect and dignity for Bangla and the Bangalees should not be considered the same as Bangalee nationalism. Bangalee nationalism would have demanded a separate nation for the Bangalees, even if the western Pakistanis treated the Bangalees with due respect. Our real spirit was no nationalism; it was fairness, respect and dignity for us.
Citizenship for anyone who seeks it? It is not done anywhere in the world. All countries have their laws to govern how a non-citizen would be given citizenship.
I would not ask Awami League to revive the so-called Bangalee nationalism (citizenship), rather I would ask them to respect all peoples of the land with respect; much like I would not ask them to call all Bangladeshis Muslims, much like I would not ask all Indians to be known as Hindus, much like I would not desire all cultural, linguistic and ethnic groups of the United States to be called Christians or English.
Well, so long for now,
Sukhamaya Bain
From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] HAVOC CREATED BY JAMATI'S !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dr. Bain's comments tells me that, in my last sarcastic comments, I did not clarify my points enough; hence confusions.
I was looking for a cultural identity for the people of Bangladesh. I explored 3 conventional identities (Bangalee, Bangladeshi, and Moderate Muslim), which have been used in the past to represent the people of Bangladesh. But, none of them seemed to encompass all people. As a result, the identity crisis still remains, and we do not know who we are.
After Bangladesh was born, our cultural identity (Jatiota) was Bangalee, and our nationality was also Banglalee. Ershad changed our nationality to Bangladeshi. The motive was to include all the people of Bangladesh, so he told us at that time. Was it really the motive? If that was true – all non-Bangalee Biharis should have been citizen by now, and Father Tim, the former Principal of Notre Dame College, would have been citizen already. If you say that our nationality is Bangladeshi - then we should grant citizenship to any permanent resident of Bangladesh, if they seek one.
In my view, it was done purposefully to defuse pre-independence secular mindset, and neutralize the Bangalee-Jatiotabadi spirit, the spirit of independence movement. As you know, Quranic verses and state religion (Islam) were also introduced in the secular constitution right around that time.
Dr. Bain, Bangalee-Jatiotabadi spirit has been the driving force behind all movements in the East Pakistan since the language movement in 1952. Even though Sheikh Mujib was not seeking independence at the beginning, but his movement was fueled by the Bangali-Jatiotabadi spirit. This is the spirit that still can unite the mjority in Bangladesh. That's why - I have been asking Awami League to revive that spirit for their sake.
Thanks for your comments. Love to hear from you. Don't be a stranger.
Jiten Roy ---
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