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Thursday, May 19, 2011

[ALOCHONA] Re International Crime Tribunal



Undoubtedly, every victims of crime deserves sympathy and  every criminal deserve punishment for the crimes they have committed. Indeed we are in a position to offer our supports and symparhy to the victims of 1971. But unfortunately, none of us are in a position to bring the real criminals to justice.
 
The tribunal that has been set by the regime in power in Bangladesh has so far failed to convince the nation that they are actually trying to bring the real war criminals to justice. Most of none partisan citizens like my self are in doubt about the international crime tribunal and the intention of the government.
 
Many of us feel that the govt has created a trap in the name of international war crime tribunal to punish a group of people they dislike.
 
Since the present government came into power, are we convinced that the judiciary has been functioning independently? There are many verdict given by the HC and SC which are clear evidence of partisanship judgement in favour of the government. Under these circumstances, it is most likely that many innocent people will become victim of the trap that has been created.
 
Unfortunately, our nation is blindly divided into two group, one is AL and the other is BNP. When BNP comes into power, they promote their own judges, Police Officers, Attorney General etc. The same happends when AL comes into power, which is why, it is not going to be a fair trial. In fact, this trial will create a ground for another trial and our vengeance politics will continue. The only option we have to get the internal and international approval of a fair trial if we can hire some international Judges from ICC, The Hague or Nnuremberg.
 
Khoda Hafiz.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


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[ALOCHONA] OF THREE MILLION



Dear Dr. Mohsin Ali,
 
I know you are a Freedom Fighter.
I follwed your discussion with Ezazur Rahman.
 
With all due respect, I would love a raise a question about the number 3 million.
Without a survey or counting, this myth began with a word from Bongo Bondhu.
 
Yes, we can have our opinion.
But fact remains self evident.
 
I am not intrerested in a debate with you.
I am from Bangladesh and I love Bangladesh very very much.
 
But as a rational person I have certain questions.
 
Following article was written in 2002.
 
With regards,
 
M Zaman

Of three million

But being mired in an extremely emotional tumult (once aptly described as Abeger Hujug or Hujuger Abeg by a friend of mine) we failed to discuss the issue. Emotion is undeniable, but emotional exuberance that overwhelms a reasoned discussion needs to be denied.

Undoubtedly a genocide of massive proportion happened in the then-East Pakistan, while many of civilized governments of the now-vocal civilizations kept mum. Political expediency overwhelmed reason and justice. The perpetrators of the heinous crime were let loose.

A nascent nation, as expected, was rife with pressing problems. Bongobondhu, probably did not pursue hard enough. But how much of power did he have! And we should not forget that the defeated Pakistani Army surrendered to India for all practical purpose. Indira Gandhi was the sole arbiter and she acted in her national interest. Should we blame her for not pressing the issue with Bhutto and with the international community?

One and a half score of years later justifiably we seek justice. A crime does not get lighter with time, only our memory does. Incessantly, we must press for justice. However, we should mind that WE (Bangladeshis) alone cannot bring the Pakistani junta (legally responsible ones) to justice. We also should mind that the international community is not as emotional as we are. Only facts are going to pursue them. We, who seek justice, are obliged to provide the facts. If the facts are muddied, our plea, whatever emotionally reverberating, is not going to move too many souls.

We need history exactly as it unfolded. A history written in anecdotes is neither a fact nor a history. If the facts do not add up, opponent's lawyer can easily thwart successful prosecution. Even if we can not punish the perpetrators of genocide today, at least we owe a true history for our posterity. And thus the issue of THREE MILLION remains a poignant one. Once BongoBondhu landed in Dhaka by way of London/Delhi on a December day, he uttered the number THREE MILLION and thus the myth of THREE MILLION got its roots. There was no systematic tally, no survey, no nothing!

It is still not too late. If we wait thirty more years, a lot many witnesses can be lost. And we will end up with a bigger morass than the one we are in now!
A nation that can not count its dead is a dead nation!!


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[ALOCHONA] Last CJ harmed judiciary, caused uncertainty in the country



GHOST OF ONE-PARTY RULE LURKS

Last CJ harmed judiciary, caused uncertainty in the country

Ataus Samad

The last Chief Justice, A. B. M. Khairul Huq, went out of office leaving behind a cloud of suffocating smoke. When he retired last Tuesday, he did not leave behind an illuminated trail upon which Bangladesh could joyfully walk. Rather, even after his departure from the court the country is afraid as to whether it would enter a dark chamber or fall into a fiery cauldron if it followed the path he has marked by some of his judgments. These appeared to be confusing, contradictory, beyond jurisdiction, uncalled for, unwarranted and therefore undesirable to ordinary people like us. And now he will be in the eye of a political storm much in the same way as former Chief Justice K. M. Hasan was in 2006.
  

The BNP and its allies during their last regime had amended the Constitution to raise the age of retirement of judges of the Supreme Court. This extended the working period of the then Chief Justice and thus placed retired Justice K. M. Hasan to be the automatic nominee for the office of the head of the non-party care-taker government that was to take charge in October, 2006. Awami League knew that Justice K. M. Hasan was a pro-BNP activist as a lawyer. Also, the Hasina government had passed him over as a High Court judge when they appointed judges in the Appellate Division. So, they declared from the start that they would never accept K.M. Hasan as the Chief Advisor of the care-taker government. They finally took a path of violence and forced him to announce that he would not take the job. If history repeats itself now in the case of retired Chief Justice Khairul Huq then it will be he and Awami League to blame.
  

In the regular and ordinary course of events Justice A. B. M. Khairul Huq would not be first in line to be the next head of a non-party care-taker government. Justice Shah Mohammad Abu Nayeem Mominur Rahman would be the person had he been appointed Chief Justice because as the senior-most judge. He would have retired in November next. This would push Justice Khairul Huq to the second place. But the government superseded Justice Abu Nayeem for the post of Chief Justice. An honourable man he instantly resigned on the second occasion of being bypassed. Indeed he is the first judge of the Bangladesh Supreme Court to have resigned from the Appellate Division in protest. The new Chief Justice will be in service past the end of the tenure of the Hasina government. So it is clear that the Awami League government wants retired Chief Justice Khairul Huq to head the next care-taker government that will be in charge of the country during the next parliamentary elections in Bangladesh.
  

Here, it needs to be kept in view that the Appellate Division, while being headed by retired Justice Khairul Huq gave a verdict (by majority vote) declaring as ultravires of and void the 13th amendment to the Constitution by which provision was made for a non-party care-taker government during parliament elections but ironically in the same breath it said that this system of care-taker government can remain in force for the next two parliament elections. It is obvious that such an arrangement will enable retired chief Justice A. B. M. Khairul Huq to be the Chief Advisor, that the head of the next election-time care-taker government. The whole thing seems to be pre-planned. It is a bit perplexing that the Awami League government would resort to a trick that was so easy to see through. Meanwhile, Justice Khairul Huq, when asked by newsmen as to whether he will be the Chief Advisor of the next care-taker government he failed to say 'no'. As the person who has pronounce from the pulpit of the Supreme Court that the 13th amendment to the Constitution was invalid, and who has also declared that the Supreme Court judges, should not be head and members of the non-party care-taker government even after leaving office, retired Justice Huq should have himself voluntarily declared that he would in no case accept that position. But not only has he failed to do so but he has kept open the possibility of him grabbing the post. He told the press, 'As to who heads the next care-taker government is a matter that will be decided in future.' But he remembered to add that he had faithfully and earnestly discharged responsibilities that came to him. This has given him away as a person whose sense of morality is poor, if not absent. Indeed BNP leaders have said again on Wednesday that retired Justice Khairul Huq is a person biased towards Awami League, that he has acted to satisfy the desire and needs of the Awami League leadership, that he has done much harm to the judiciary, that he has caused uncertainty in the country and that he has acted against morality in his remarks to newsmen on the subject of being the head of the next care-taker government. Indeed he contradicted himself about his opinion of the performance of judges in the lower court in a speech on Tuesday. Another remark in that speech proves his inefficiency in supervising the judiciary. Indeed every right thinking citizen of Bangladesh should vehemently oppose any move to appoint retired Chief Justice A. B. M. Khairul Huq as head of the next non-party care-taker government.
  

Awami League knows it well that BNP will boost the morale of party men by saying 'if they could stop K. M. Hasan, we can stop Khairul Huq'. Moreover, BNP leaders will explain to their followers that if they can torpedo retired Justice Khairul Huq then it will weaken the Awami League in the next election. Indeed, BNP supporters, who have stayed with the party throughout the dangerous and frightful two-year regime of General Moin U Ahmed and ex-civil servant Fakhruddin Ahmed, and then the rule of terror of Awami League need to be told that they are fighting for a right cause.
  

Meanwhile, BNP will need to be ready to take effective measures to prevent Awami League from reviving the ghost of one-party rule. The verdict nullifying the Fifth Amendment as it stands after review in the Appellate Division seems to be offering Awami-Baksalites an opportunity to do so. However, as the Twelfth Amendment, which brought about parliamentary system of government and also recognizes multi-party democracy by way of Article 70, stands in the way. But because Awami League has lost much popular support in the last two and a half years it's leaders can go wild and do crazy things as they did in the Sheikh Mujib's regime.

http://www.weeklyholiday.net/front.html#01



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[ALOCHONA] On RAB, a newspaper editor etc...



On RAB, a newspaper editor etc...



http://www.amardeshonline.com/pages/details/2011/05/20/82601

http://www.bd-pratidin.com/?view=details&type=gold&data=Soccer&pub_no=382&cat_id=1&menu_id=1&news_type_id=1&index=11

http://newagebd.com/newspaper1/frontpage/index.1.html


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[ALOCHONA] Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood on the March, but Cautiously



Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood on the March, but Cautiously

May 19, 2011

The Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood (MB) officially registered Wednesday for the formation of a new political wing, paving the way for the establishment of the Freedom and Justice Party. With parliamentary elections scheduled in September, Freedom and Justice is expected to do well at the first polls of the post-Mubarak era. Just how well is the main question on the minds of the country's ruling military council, which would prefer to hand off the day-to-day responsibilities of governing Egypt, while holding onto real power behind the scenes.

Leading MB official Saad al-Katatny, one of the founders of Freedom and Justice, said he hopes for the party to officially begin its activities June 17, and to begin selecting its executive authority and top leaders one month later. Members of Egypt's Political Parties Affairs Committee will convene Sunday to discuss the application and will announce their decision the next day. They are expected to approve the request. Three and a half months after the fall of Hosni Mubarak, Egypt's leading Islamist group is on the verge of forming an official political party for the first time in its history.

Following Mubarak's ouster, MB wasted little time in seizing what it saw as the group's historical moment to enter Egypt's political mainstream. They announced plans to form a political party on Feb. 14. The Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF), which took over administration of the country following the deposal of Mubarak, did nothing to hinder this development, despite the military's deep antipathy toward Islamist groups. Political instability was (and is) rampant in the country, and the military sought to find a balance that would allow it to maintain control while appearing amenable to the people's demands, and bring life back to normal. Opening up political space to Islamist groups, including at least two emerging Salafist parties, and announcing plans for fairly rapid elections, was seen by the military as the most effective way to achieve this balance.

It bears repeating that what happened in Egypt in January and February did not constitute a revolution. There was no regime change; there was regime preservation, through a carefully orchestrated military coup that used the 19 days of popular demonstrations against Mubarak as a smokescreen for achieving its objective. Though a system of one-party rule existed from the aftermath of the 1967 War until Feb. 11 of this year, true power in Egypt since 1952 has been with the military and that did not change with the ouster of Mubarak. What changed was that for the first time since the 1960s, Egypt's military found itself not just ruling, but actually governing, despite the existence of an interim government (which the SCAF itself appointed).

The SCAF wants to get back to ruling and give up the job of governing, but it knows that there has been a sea change in Egypt's political environment that prevents a return to the way things were done under Mubarak. The days of single-party rule are over. If the military wants stability, it is going to have to accept a true multiparty political system, one that allows for a broad spectrum of participation from all corners of Egyptian society. The generals can maintain control of the regime, but the day-to-day affairs of governance will fall under the control of coalition governments that could never have existed in the old Egypt.

This opens the door for MB to gain more political power than it has ever held and explains why its leaders were so quick to announce their plans for the formation of Freedom and Justice in February. But the group has tempered eagerness with caution. MB is aware of its reputation in the eyes of the SCAF (and the outside world, for that matter) and is playing a shrewd game to dispel its image as an extremist Islamist group. It has been publicly supportive of the SCAF on a number of occasions, and has marketed Freedom and Justice as a non-Islamist party — it includes women and one of its founders is a Copt — based on Islamic principles. MB has also insisted that the new party will have no actual ties to the Brotherhood itself (though this is clearly not the case), while promising that it will not field a presidential candidate in polls due to take place six weeks following the parliamentary elections. In addition, MB has pledged to run for no more than 49 percent of the available parliamentary seats. This is designed to reassure the SCAF that it does not immediately seek absolute political power.

Focusing on whether the SCAF is sincere in its publicly stated desire to transform Egypt into a democracy misses the more important point, which is that the military regime feels it has no choice but to move toward a multiparty political system. The alternatives — military dictatorship and single-party rule — are unfeasible. But there are red lines attached to the push toward political pluralism, and MB is aware of these. Trying to take too much, too quickly, will only incite a military crackdown on the political opening the armed forces have engineered in the last three months. As for the SCAF, it is willing to give Freedom and Justice a chance in the new Egypt, so long as the underlying reality of power remains the same.


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[ALOCHONA] FW: Danish 'terrorist' fights Indian extradition



             Fascinating story of gun-running gone wrong! Reminds me of our own Ten-truck of arms haul and the chorer raja Lutfuzzaman Babar with the Brylcreamed hairdo!
 
                 Farida Majid
 


Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 10:29:13 -0700
Subject: Fw: Danish 'terrorist' fights Indian extradition
To: farida_majid@hotmail.com



"Holck has said the arms were to enable Ananda Marg to protect itself against thugs sent by West Bengal's communist government, with which there was a long-running feud. But last month he told Times Now, an Indian news site, that the true object "was to destabilise the government of West Bengal" so it could be "ruled?directly from Delhi." Confirming Peter Bleach's claims, he said both British and Indian secret services knew about the arms drop long in advance."


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/danish-terrorist-fights-indian-extradition-2286147.html

Danish 'terrorist' fights Indian extradition


By Peter Popham
Thursday, 19 May 2011
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A British spy turned arms dealer who nearly died in an Indian prison told a Copenhagen court yesterday how he was beaten and humiliated while serving a life sentence there.

Giving evidence in the extradition hearing of the Danish "terrorist" who was once his customer, Peter Bleach said he feared the Dane would not survive if forced to stand trial in Kolkata.
India wants Niels Holck, Bleach's former customer, to be tried on terrorism charges dating back to 1995. The Danish government has agreed to the extradition – the first ever to a third world country – but a local Danish court upheld Holck's appeal. Now a five-man bench of the high court is hearing the government's appeal against that decision.
In 1995 Mr Bleach, now 60, went to Copenhagen to meet Niels Holck to clinch a deal to sell him a large consignment of weapons. But his view of the deal changed when he learned that the Dane wanted the weapons delivered to a remote spot in the central Indian countryside. Returning to Britain, Bleach alerted MI5, who told him to go ahead.
He procured an ancient Antonov plane to carry the consignment of Kalashnikovs and other weapons plus ammunition. His intention was to conclude the deal and return home, but Holck refused to let him go, fearing he would betray him.
In late December 1995, the decrepit Russian plane full of munitions sat for days on the tarmac at Karachi airport, then flew across one of the world's tensest borders into India and landed at the central Indian city of Varanasi.
There the arms were loaded onto pallets which were attached to parachutes. Once the airport's radar had been conveniently turned off it set off on the last leg of the journey. But for pilot error – the drop was made from 300 metres instead of 300 feet – the delivery would probably have gone off without a hitch, and Bleach and Holck would have returned home safe and sound.
The intended destination was Ananda Marg, a utopian community founded in Bihar in 1955. It calls itself an organisation of sannyasin – monks and nuns – who dedicate their lives to meditation and social service, and it has branches around the world. Holck claims to have done social service for the organisation for years. But unlike other such organisations, the monks are prepared to take up arms.
Both Bleach and Holck were in the plane when the arms were dropped – but when the Indian authorities caught up with them at Bombay's airport days later and Bleach and the airplane's crew were arrested, Holck was spirited out of the country.
Bleach and the rest were eventually convicted in Kolkata of waging war against India and sentenced to life. Now the Indian authorities want the man described as the mastermind of the crime to stand trial.
But yesterday Bleach, who contracted TB in Kolkata's squalid jail before being pardoned under pressure from Britain, told the Copenhagen court that he doubted Holck would survive. "The way the Indian press is talking about him is equivalent to the way the US press talked about Osama bin Laden," he said.
Holck has said the arms were to enable Ananda Marg to protect itself against thugs sent by West Bengal's communist government, with which there was a long-running feud. But last month he told Times Now, an Indian news site, that the true object "was to destabilise the government of West Bengal" so it could be "ruled?directly from Delhi." Confirming Peter Bleach's claims, he said both British and Indian secret services knew about the arms drop long in advance.
In an interview with The Independent last year, Mr Bleach said "A lot of people close to the summit of Indian government and intelligence would have to have signed off on the arms drop plan for it to go ahead?If Holck is extradited to India, he won't last a week. They would probably kill him in jail."








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Re: [ALOCHONA] Re: A Genocide or Holocaust does not have the other side of the story



Dd

Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®


From: "ezajur" <Ezajur@yahoo.com>
Sender: alochona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 09:13:47 -0000
To: <alochona@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo: alochona@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: A Genocide or Holocaust does not have the other side of the story

 

Dear Alochoks

 

Again, there is no reason to doubt that genocide and mass rape occurred. There is no doubt that genocide is defined by the intention of the killing and not the numbers killed. All the rape victims helped by the noble ladies mentioned are very real. But by the same token if the numbers of 3 million or 400,000 are reduced the terms genocide or mass rape will not be affected. Nor will the pain of our losses.

 

Rather, the sheer bloody minded refusal to do anything more than multiply 68,000 villages by an estimate of those killed per village, does the memory of all those victims a disservice. It indicates a web of inabilities, insecurities and complexes which we are simply not willing to confront. And in doing so we can see why we are where we are today.

 

The Prime minister announced on Army Day two years ago in front of the families of war victims that a search for mass graves will start. It has not started.

 

Privately many people assert that Sheikh Mujib mistakenly translated 3 lakhs in Bangla to 3 million in English. Well. The standard of English of many a learned man in 2011 is still appalling so we cannot begrudge Sheikh Mujib for possibly making that mistake. But are we to then seize upon that mistake (if it is true, if it is the key source of the 3 million number) as a golden opportunity to make our losses seem 10 times more serious? Who does that? What does that make us?

 

Many will be offended but only because we have created a culture where such matters are easily discussed in private but never in public. We need to talk publicly about such things and start trying to establish what the facts are. Other countries discuss without disagreement what happened 200 years ago. We can't agree on what happened 2 years ago!  

 

We know very well how many men helped those rape victims in 1971 and since. These are the same men who start their political speeches by lifting their crooked forefinger and with mock emotion declare "Amader char lokko ma bon…." They don't really give a damn.

 

Murder, rape, corruption and extortion is committed daily by operatives of AL and BNP. Let's not complain or fight for reform especially when our preferred party is in power! But let's sing about murder and rape in 1971! What the heck is this?!

 

Those in their ivory towers should not be offended by slander, insult and mockery. These are the essential tools of Bangladeshi politics – the very same politics practiced by their preferred party and the very same politics which they do not complain about when their preferred party is in power.

 

I say we smash all our taboos and challenge everything that props up our political culture and established thinking.

 

Regards

 

Ezajur Rahman

Kuwait

 

 

 --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, Farida Majid <farida_majid@...> wrote:
>
>
> It is Sarmila Bose who is exaggerating the extent of her 'research' and fieldwork in Bangladesh. I have testimony of people whom she contacted during her very brief visit researching "rape." Her notetaking was abysmal! She refused to hear my childhood friend, Maleka Khan's report on the dozens of Rehab Centers for women that were set up in 1972 throughout the country. My mother, Maleka, Begum Sufia Kamal, Badrunnessa (AL MP), Farida Hassan (later BNP MP), Dr. Sultana Zaman and many other women social workers worked indefatiguably during those days. I myself accompanied them in 1972 on their trips to the villages for finding rape victims. The process was painful on the part of the survivors to own up to victimhood. My mother was one of the founders of Dustho Mohila Punorbason Kendra still functioning as a women's hostel in Eskaton area of Dhaka city.
>
> Why is Bose, and other sympathizers of mass murder and rape, so anxious to establish how exaggerated the NUMBERS are? Will lesser number of people killed wipe out the word 'genocide' and lessen the criminality of mass murders and rape? But, as I have clearly pointed out, the question of number itself is immaterial. For instance, the communal carnage of Gujarat in 2002 where over 2000 Muslims were slaughtered and innumerable women raped and 10,000 people displaced has been designated as a 'genocide' because of the manner in which the riot was conducted.
>
> Once again, the legal definition of Genocide deals with the intent to commit genocide, not the actual numbers. Yet Jamaatis and the nuveau-rajakar types NEVER talk about the intention, the purpose and goal of committing the atrocities.
>
> By the way, Mr. Shahadat indulged in falsehoods about me in the following:
>
> Ms. Majid was in India at her home during that period, as Ms Bose was. Am I correct?
> Ms. Bose did a research in the grass root inside Bangladesh. Ms. Majid relied on the news and propaganda and got settled what she heard or read without proper analysis of the numbers.
>
> What could be the purpose of these baseless, ridiculous lies about me? Where could he have possibly got the ideas? The intention to slander is surely the point.
>
> Farida Majid
>
>
>
>
> To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> From: shahadathussaini@...
> Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 10:29:08 -0400
> Subject: RE: [ALOCHONA] Re: A Genocide or Holocaust does not have the other side of the story
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ms. Bose never denied Genocide in Bangladesh at the time of Liberation. What she said in her 'Dead Reckonninmg: ' is that the number had been balooned without taking field statistics.
> Ms. Majid was in India at her home during that period, as Ms Bose was. Am I correct?
> Ms. Bose did a research in the grass root inside Bangladesh. Ms. Majid relied on the news and propaganda and got settled what she heard or read without proper analysis of the numbers.
> Genocide occured, nobody on earth can deny it. Lot of innocent people had been killed by all the parties in the conflict (members of pakistani army did most). 195 real war criminals should have not been released by the then government of Bangladesh. International War Tribunal Act of 1973 was intended for prosecuting with international justices on the bench.
> Shahadat Suhrawardy
>
>
>
> To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> From: Ezajur@...
> Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:14:48 +0000
> Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: A Genocide or Holocaust does not have the other side of the story
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Farida
>
>
> AL will soon be sending tens of thousands of poor women to this jahalia. I condemn it. You don't.
>
> I believe genocide did happen in 1971. I never denied it. Simple. So please try to focus.
>
> I believe the legal definition of genocide by the UN (1948) is a good one.
>
> The AL BNP Scuffle is the single biggest problem in Bangladesh today. Commentators who avoid it and actively seek to deflect from it are quietly partisan.
>
> You say you are not politically affiliated but you avoid mentioning this government in any discussion and condemn no injustice or error committed by it.
>
> Your activist brothers, `jara party koreh', should be `coloured' if they partake in status quo politics or do not stand up against criminality in their party or do not clamour for political reform.
>
> I know you are a leader, honest and capable. So are many others. Don't take it from biased brother activists – take it from your `enemies'. But you are a leader who inadvertently supports the status quo today with all its injustice.
>
> It is your democratic right to want `Bismillah' removed. There are good intellectual and practical arguments for it. But in fighting for it you are silent or obtuse on any number of other issues which require open condemnation.
>
> You effortlessly excuse family politics by saying it is common in South Asia but keep silent on the undemocratic stranglehold on power of these very same families.
>
> So let's look at what you have proposed:
>
>
> try to PROVE how good 1971 Genocide was? What? Who said it was good? It was awful and it was genocide. There is nothing to admit or deny on this.
> I feel morally obliged to support Sharmila Bose because shes hacks off people like you by even daring to question whether 3 million actually died or 400,000 were actually raped. Numbers matter because numbers are used by politicians to delude our people and maintain status quo politics.
> Yes I remember the WCT. I welcome it and have never commented against it. There is nothing to admit or deny on this.
>
> I hope the WCT has been set up to your satisfaction and as such the number of lawyers used by JI should prove in vain. I hope so.
>
> Your invitation is a generous one. The subjects you wish to debate are absurd: why genocide and crimes against humanity are good? In clear English: genocide and crimes against humanity are awful and they did happen in 1971.
>
> Just because you are right about the awfulness of genocide in 1971 does not give you the right to make the numbers killed and raped taboo. Nor does it give you the right to stay silent on what is destroying our nation today.
>
> I am happy to debate you in Dhaka on why, though I care not a jot for her, I am glad Sharmila Bose annoys people like you, the difference between your politics and mine, and whether the number 3 million should or can be questioned. These are the subjects that I mentioned to Dr Mohsn Ali of New York.
>
> I embrace every quaint insult you have used against me. To be fair, I have indeed used worse. It is a simple function of our forthright passions. Though you object to abusive behaviour by me even though I can be easily ignored, you cannot possibly stand openly against the abusive behaviour of our political classes which so greatly damages our nation.
>
> I am happy to lose the debate. I am happy to be proved wrong. All that matters is the truth.
>
> A genocide or holocaust does not have another side of the story. This is true. I am not presenting another side of the genocide of 1971. I am presenting the other side of some intellectuals and the other side of our country's lousy political narrative.
>
>
> Ezajur Rahman
> Kuwait
> --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, Farida Majid farida_majid@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > Relentless hurling of abject abuse at Farida Majid by Ezajur of koo-koo land of Koo-Wait (waiting in unending Jahiliya for the dawn of civilization) will not do the job of proving what is morally RIGHT in supporting genocide. Legal definition of Genocide is provided by United Nations Charter. For those who are so enamored of mass killing of unarmed civilians, please hurl abuses at that organization.
> >
> > Ejazur's atrophied brain refuses to see anything beyond AL-BNP scuffle. One has to lick his feet, be his mo-saeb, otherwise a person is labelled "sycophant of AL" no matter what the rest of world knows about that person's political affiliation. He is an egotistic moron for harping on and on about a subject that he is shamelessly ignorant about.
> >
> > It is ironic that I often get 'phone calls congratulating me after an article is published in the paper from other activist brothers saying, "Apa, apnar moto leader-rai desh-take shamne niye jabe. Amra, jara party kori tara to kalard (colored) hoye gecchi." My repeated statement in Alochona that I do not do 'party' in Bangladesh falls on deaf ears.
> >
> > I would plead with the Moderator of ALOCHONA for curbing these personal abuses expressing pure, unadultrated malice, based on ridiculous falsehoods. It dumbs down any intelligent exchange of ideas. It is certainly not conducive to the noble purpose for which the originator of this yahoogroup started the forum, and who personally requested me several times before I agreed to join it 12 years ago.
> >
> > For Ejazur and FAlamgir of zulumgiri communalism: Please, try to PROVE how good 1971 Genocide was and how you feel "morally obliged" to support the claims of Sarmila Bose. You don't have to travel to New York City to do that. How about holding that proposed debate here in Dhaka City? It is time to stop talking in emotional, abusive terms. We have a functioning War Crimes Tribunal, remember? A presentation of defence argument FOR the crimes against humanity will be officially admitted at the Tribunal. Please contact the Jamaati lawyers advising the Defence at the Tribunal.
> >
> >
> > Farida Majid
> >
> >
> > : A Genocide or Holocaust does not have the other side of the story
> > Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 18:13:39 -0400
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Raising serious objection to Sarmila Bose’s â€Å“testimonyâ€� on Bangladesh Genocide of 1971.
> >
> > It is not enough to be simply emotional and object to Sarmila Bose’s incredulous insensitivity to crimes against humanity committed in 1971 in Bangladesh. We have to show how easy it is to prove that her so called â€Å“studyâ€� is methodologically wrong, logically fallacious and her conclusions fatuous and risible.
> > How risible? Consider her recent most articles extolling the virtues of General Niazi, the butcher of 1971 in the then East Pakistan. Niazi must have been a virtuous General to the Military authority that had deployed him. Yet I have read personal opinions of one high ranking Officer after another in the Pakistani armed forces of the time expressing disgust at Niazi’s blatant anti-Bengali racist attitudes and sadly admitting that Niazi was a disgrace to the uniform he was wearing. This does not point to a â€Å“carefully sourcedâ€� study, does it? Where did Sarmila Bose cull the information on Niazi’s praiseworthy actions in East Pakistan from when Niazi’s own account of events admits â€Å“errors of judgmentâ€�? Sarmila Bose is making up the virtues. For that task she did not have to be either â€Å“carefulâ€� or faithful to any real source.
> > Her most outrageous posturing pertains to the case of wide scale rape that was definitely used as an important instrument of war in 1971. Distorting the fact that numerous rehabilitation centers set up all over newly independent Bangladesh (my mother worked in one of them as a social worker in 1972) which actually extended Govt. and non-governmental help towards innumerable injured women, she writes:
> >
> > << Even if only a fraction of the total number of victims came to these centres, on the basis of their evidence, an estimate could be made of the total number and provide reliable information on who the victims were, who the perpetrators were, and the dates, places and circumstances of sexual violence.>>
> >
> > She is not interested in the trauma, the human misery, the wounded honor, or the shame that would prevent women from parading their story of victimization out in the public. She insists on hard math. The exact head count â€" the time, date and place â€"as if rape in a war of aggression is to be treated as any old municipal crime.
> >
> > Is her demand remotely realistic under the circumstances? Even the law does not require these details in a War Crimes Tribunal dealing with crimes against humanity. What the International Criminal Court requires is the establishment of the fact that the crimes were committed in a â€Å“widespread and systematicâ€� manner. For that there is plenty of evidence on the ground, and also coming from Hamoodur Rahman Commission Report and other witnesses from within the Pakistani armed forces.
> >
> > I can gather more testimonies if and when necessary. For the moment I have gathered the following from a Pakistani source:
> >
> > A response by our Brig. FB Ali, to the article sent earlier, is being forwarded to put things in perspective.
> > Do we really need testimonials from the Assistant Editor of an insignificant Indian paper to reassure us that our army did OK in EP? Is that our level of self-confidence now?
> > Why do we need fairy tales and stories about things we all know about, either first- or second-hand?
> > The fact is that the soldiers and younger officers fought well in EP (as they have done everywhere else). The mid-level officers' performance was a mixed bag, some good, some bad, most average. The senior officers (Brig and above) performed poorly, with some exceptions. Many of the generals behaved terribly, and should have been shot for cowardice and the war crimes that they committed by directing or allowing their troops to commit atrocities against the civilian population.
> > "Tiger" Niazi was a disgrace to the uniform he unfortunately wore. He was a fraud, a lecher and a coward. When he was GOC 10 Div, it was well known in the garrison (I was there) that his staff car would often be found standing in Heera Mandi at night. As GOC EP he used to go around visiting troops and asking JCOs: How many Bengali women have you raped? When discussing his surrender with the Indian general he kept trying to ingratiate himself with him by telling dirty jokes. These are just a few highlights of this great self-styled Mujahid, who now also has the glowing testimonial of Ms Sarmila Bose.
> > Brig. FB Ali
> >
> > Sarmila Bose is a disgrace to the Bangalee race and to civil society of all times and all places.
> >
> > Prof.Farida Majid
> > Poet, scholar, literary translator; taught English at CUNY and Bangla at Columbia University in the City of New York.
> >
>



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Re: [ALOCHONA] Dr Mohsin Ali - A challenge



Mr. M. Ali:
 
    You wrote, "In fact, my son and daughters not only learnt history of Bangladesh liberation war from me, they are smart enough to search on the internet and study the accounts of both sides and they are capable to make their own conclusions. "
 
    You know what, Mr. Ali - I wonder if you ever told your children about the Leader-of-All-Leaders Bhashani, and the valiant freedom fighter Ziaur Rahman. I wonder if you told them about how a wildly popular leader Muzib became a ruthless dictator who abolished democracy, instituted one party rule, and shut down all newspapers. I wonder if you told them about the shutting down of newspapers in terms of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. I will bet a dollar that you have NOT.
 
---
 
 
    You wrote, "The 3 million shaheeds and Pakistani Genocide against the Bengalis are the historical facts and we cannot change those facts."
 
    I would like to ask you, Mr. Ali - Who told you that they are "historical facts" ? And who told you that those supposedly "historical facts" cannot be changed ? In your own adopted country, the United States, history is being rewritten, as we speak,  to reflect the truth of the African Americans. I am sure you are aware of that.
 
    You know more than anyone that any Jodu-Modhu (Tom/Dick/And Harry) can write a book. Since you claimed that you have written some, you know more than most that the printed words are as trust worthy as the person who wrote it. Just because they are printed doesn't mean they are facts. [Ask your children, they will know about it]
 
    By being rude in this forum, you, Mr. Ali,  have lost your credibility quite significantly. And by being Guiliani like blabber mouth, you have lost quite a bit of respect becasue you were too frequently claiming too much credit as a freedom fighter while putting down others. A true respectable and honorable fighter will shy away from such claims. Don't ever forget that more than 95% people supported for Independence and supported Awami League in 1971. Support for Awami League and its leadership fell down significantly in just two years after the indepndence. But that is another debate. 
 
    You mentioned that lately you have been called many things in this forum. You know what Mr. Ali - this is a reflection of what you have said and the way you have acted in this forum. You reap what you sow. You are called an Indian Rajakar for the same reasons another guy is called a Pakistani Rajakar. Your love for India is greater than for your love for Bangladesh. Until and unless you can protest the atrocities currently committed by the Indians you will remain an Indian Rajakar. You [may] have been a freedom fighter then but for a long time you have been an Indian Rajakar. Like the Paki Rajakars did for Pakistan, you are acting like an Indian Rajakar and doing the same for India.

   In one long paragraph you talk about Aasia Begum and others. Let me ask you this, Mr. Ali - What about the everyday rape being committed by the BAL members ? How about the economic rape that your beloved BAL [as well as BNP] and India are perpetrating on Bangladesh ? You can "cite atrocities" of the Pakistanis but not of your own kind (BAL)? You know why ? It is becasue you are a part of them, it is because the gravy train also flows towards you. Can you deny it, Mr. Ali ?

    You may not be a part of the BAL government but by keeping quiet and not voicing your disgust publicly you encourage them. You are too weak, too coward, too selfish now than when you were a teenager and [supposedly] picked up a gun to be against the Paki military.
 
    Your accusation of "hiding" behind a pseudoname by some of the Alochoks is HAASH SHO KOR. What's in a name, Mister Ali ? Look at the content of our discussion, look at the logic presented. Look at the languages used. Look at who set the [reprehensible] tone of this thread ? Let your children decide if you deserved what you got from some of the Alochoks in this forum. BTW, Mr. QAR eloquently responded to this "hiding" non-issue.

    In this attached response, you wrote [rather politely] that you were not rude to Mr. Ezajur Rahman. We all have read what you have written in your earlier posts. However, as a goodwill gesture to you, I do not wish to quote your earlier remarks in this response to contradict you. Rather, I will take your statement that you were not rude as a sign of your back tracking away from your earlier rude/obnoxious statements.  And if my assumption is correct that you were distancing yourself from your earlier rude remarks to another Alochok (Mr. Ezajur Rahman], then I sincerely welcome you for the new attitude. Please accept my appreciation. 

-AlochokBahi
 


--- On Wed, 5/18/11, Dr. M. Mohsin Ali <drmohsinali@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Dr. M. Mohsin Ali <drmohsinali@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Dr Mohsin Ali - A challenge
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, May 18, 2011, 12:56 PM

 
Mr. Ezajur,
 
Your last e-mail to me is very sober and polite. I thank you and appreciate for that. I thank you for wishing good words for my son. In fact, my son and daughters not only learnt history of Bangladesh liberation war from me, they are smart enough to search on the internet and study the accounts of both sides and they are capable to make their own conclusions.
 
The 3 million shaheeds and Pakistani Genocide against the Bengalis are the historical facts and we cannot change those facts. Some people like Sharmila Bose and you have been debating for years siding with the Pakistanis and such debate will contnue by some people for millions of years and that is fine. I have no problem with that. Unless you talk from the Bengali point of view or I talk from Pakistani point of view, we will never come to agree with each other on these facts which are already written in  the history of the Bangladesh liberation war. Maybe, Sharmila Bose, Pakistani Generals and you can try to write the histoty about how the Pakistan was Broken in 1971 with your documents of facts.
 
Please review your e-mails of the last 10 plus years and you will find how you and those who responded supporting your email rebuked me using all the bad words, such as: BAL psychophant, rock-headed, Indian razakar, Indian/Hindu Pachata, fake doctorate, 16 division, etct, etc., and there were many other bad words that I cannot even read and write. Just read the e-mail of Faruk Husseini. Can you read it as a gentleman. Did you ever protest? Or, you are enjoying those nasty words throwing at me? But I tried to rentraint myself from using any harsh or bad words when I responded to you. This is the first time, I have used the words such as Pakistani psychophant and razakar Pakistani supporter for you, because, you have chosen yourself to be siding with the Sharmila Bose story and Pakistani Generals' accounts of our liberation history and crying for the few biharis who were killed in action of war or in some isolated incidents and you are questioning about the  NUMBER of Bengalis killed by the Pakistani.
 
I still believe, you are a conscious Bengali and not a Pakistani supporter. But it surprises me when I read that the basis of your arguments are the Sharmila Bose book and Pakistani Generals' stories and you are defending them.
 
I believe, I shall find you a decent man and you will find ma decent man , too when we see each other. In New York, we always have verbal fights with the BNP/Jamat supporters, but we always maintain our good personal friendship.
 
One thing I always say or write that if some one questions about our spirit of our liberation war, as a freedom fighter, I break my emotion.
 
When I remember Aasia Begum of Moshinda Village of Gurudaspur Thana, who was raped and killed brutally along with her husband and hanged on the tree nacked by the Razakars because they sheltered and fed the freedom fighters; when Jodu Fakir of Lalpur, a poor beggar who lost his one leg at early age and used to walk with a baton, was burnt into ashes in his small hut because he sheltered and fed the freedom fighters,  Alea Khatun, a 10th grade student, who saved the life of a freedom fighter by telling lie to the razakars in the middle of the night that the boy who was sleeping at their home, was not a freedom fighter but her husband and when the razakars came to know next day that she lied to save a freedom fighter, they took the girl and her mother to the camp and raped them for months and killed them in Lalpur Thana; when I remember that Kanchu Muktar (Peace Committee Chairman of Natore) and Major Sherwani, Pak Army Commander used to kill a freedom fighter or a supporter of freedom every morning before they used take breakfast and when Bihari Hafez gave the fatwa that giving bengali girls and young women for the pleasure of the Pakistani soldiers who were away from their families to save Islam and Pakistan was Farz for every Muslim; when I remember that when I was hanged with the ceiling fan and was beaten mercilessly and pied on my mouth by the razakars and my fellow freedom fighters found me half dead when they occupied the razakar camp in a counter attack, I cannot stop my emotion.
 
My dear friend Ezajur, I can cite hundreds of such attrocities of the Pakistanis and the razakars. You need to read my books written on the liberation war (already 6 books published (Ranagini Aasia Khala, Bicchu Kannya, Je Bangladesher Juddhey, Swadhinota Sangrame Bicchu Senani, Harano Fhul and Prem-O-Deshoprem) and 2 (Ekti Phulke Banchabo Bole and Joy Bangla - are going to be published in this year). You did not witness the actual attrocities of the Pakistanis and the razakars. You have heard and read. So, your feelings and understanding will not match with mine. Ms. Bose did not know the pains of the women who were raped, tortured and brutally killed. She cannot even feel or imagine the situation.
 
However, If you want to discuss or debate about the performance, failures and wrong doings of Awami League Government, that's fine with me. I most fervently welcome you. I support Awami League, but I am not a part of the AL Government. I am and was never in any Government position. So, I have no way to abuse my position or power as I have no position or power.
 
There is nothing to find my real face. My face is one and clear, my identity is clear. I never hide my identity. I always give my Bangladesh and US address when I write and addresses are needed. I am a supporter of Awami League since I967 and I shall continue to be an Awami League supporter for rest of my life, it does not matter how badly you criticize Awami League. I do not change my political identity for opportunities. When Awami League does bad I share it. I accept the criticism. But I cannot change as I am not in a position to change except giving some suggestions when I meet any AL leader and that I do that always.
 
Some people (especially Probashi, qar and Alochok Bhai) criticized me in your support. I appreciate that. But I tell them that why you are hiding your identities? You did not witness or were not the victims of the attrocities of the Pakistani and razakars. You do not feel the pains and get the emotion like I do.
 
Alochok Bhai wrote that his teachers were freedom fighters. I salute them. I request Alochok Bhai to present them the book written by Ms. Sharmila Bose and give them the e-mails that Mr. Ezajur wrote to me and then find their reactions. Then you come back and criticize my reaction or emotion.
 
Please give me the mobile numbers of your freedom fighter teachers or give them my mobile number. We can talk and share our pains and emotion. I can raise the contents of Ms. Bose book and Mr. Ezajur's e-mails. You can find their reactions.
 
JOY BANGLA.
Mobile: 88-01712001625 Bangladesh until first week of June, 2011
Cell: 1 (631) 682- 6612 New York after first week of June, 2011).
 
 
 
 


--- On Tue, 5/17/11, ezajur <Ezajur@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: ezajur <Ezajur@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: Dr Mohsin Ali - A challenge
To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, May 17, 2011, 5:36 AM

 

Dear Dr Mohsin Ali

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

As a sign of respect for your age and heroism in 1971 I shall ignore you describing me as favouring Pakistan, a Jamaati, having a rajakar guru, favouring the Pakistani military, favouring rape, learning through Pakistani eyes, being a Pakistani sycophant, wanting to kill the Prime Minister and various other descriptions so typical of the political discourse that you have helped to build. I am sympathetic to your name calling because you have no other alternative but I assure you that you will find me a most affable and friendly fellow.

 

I am pleased that your son is a medical student in the US . InshAllah he will be a great doctor one day. No need to bet that he knows more than me about 1971 – I am sure he does. But I am sure that as he matures he will also ask more questions about everything without diminishing his noble father in anyway. I am also sure that as he gets to know the political culture of Bangladesh he will require it to be reformed, again without diminishing his noble father any form. You are a patriot. I am too. Our differing opinions should not prevent us from wishing the next generation well and hoping that our country is blessed by their contributions.   

 

Thank you for the offer of your conference room but I must respectfully decline. Cost in not an issue for you or for me. If we do meet I assure you it will be in a venue fit for a war hero and I shall bear the cost as a humble token of my respect for your service in 1971.

 

Sharmila Bose may well have failed to present her case in a room full of your friends.  I have no doubt you presented her, in a friendly fashion, with information new to her. I hope she absorbs your presentation and revisits her opinions. By the same token, I hope the fact that she dared at all to question the number of victims in 1971 will prompt you to look into how the number 3 million is substantiated in front of those who cannot demonstrate their patriotism as you so ably did in 1971. The evidence may well be there but it has not been convincingly collated in one place. Certainly the country can do a better job of substantiating the number.       

 

I sided with Sharrmila not because she got her numbers right but because she dared at all to question the number and because she offended the political classes, and those who silently support them – people who don't complain about injustice or corruption perpetrated by their own party.

 

Your calculation by village is mathematically correct and may serve as a guide. But, respectfully, it cannot be sufficient. Justice and history require a better performance at State level. We should have a commission to investigate the murders. A commission of experts should formally call witnesses, search for mass graves and investigate all evidence presented. It should call from Pakistan soldiers to be questioned. No harm, only good, great good can come of this. Two years ago the government announced it would search for mass graves. It has failed to adequately do so. We should have a memorial built at the largest mass graves.

           

Come now Dr Mohsin. Just because I work in Kuwait does not mean I subscribe to the ethos here. I do not.  Neither do the millions of our countrymen who work in the Middle East on the lowest wages. I rather subscribe to the ethos of the country you live in. And in fact, it is the democracy practiced in the West that fuels my discontent with the democracy practiced in our country. Which brings us neatly to our politics.

 

And on our politics I stand full squarely against you and every man who is a paid up supporter of AL or BNP. The reality of Bangladeshi politics is this:

 

The electorate can only vote for who is on the ballot. It is the cabals that control AL and BNP who guarantee dynastic politics and who decide who gets on the ballot. If AL nominates a cow and BNP nominates a goat then a cow or a goat will be MP and the public has no real say. Every politician when pushed will in private hold the electorate entirely responsible for our condition. Indeed men like Dr Fakhruddin, Kamal Hossain, Dr Yunus (and perhaps B Chowdhury) have failed because these cabals would not compromise on dynastic politics. It is the cabals, including their silent supporters, that require dynastic politics – not the public. And from this stems every undemocratic practice, and related corruption, in the country.

 

The AL and BNP of today are incapable of cohesive action on an ethical agenda without vicious infighting and corruption. The only thing that can hold these two parties together is that they cannot argue about one fact – that the Nethri is a relative of the Sheikh Mujib or Ziaur Rahman. It is a pathetic failure which keeps our country steeped in immaturity and ignorance.   

 

Sheikh Hasina and Khaleda Zia are poorly advised and victims of the worst aspects of our nature. And the greatest virtue of our people is also the greatest weakness of our people – an almost unlimited capacity to tolerate injustice and suffering (bar 1971).  Sheikh Mujib and Ziaur Rahman will not be happy with the way their parties have used their family members.   

 

I may fail bitterly in this challenge to you. But if I do fail then hopefully I may learn many things from you and you may also learn a thing or two from me. We both have the best of intentions I am sure.     

 

Regards

 

Ezajur Rahman

Kuwait
--- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. M. Mohsin Ali" <drmohsinali@...> wrote:
>
>
> Mr. Ezajur,
>  
> I never refused for the debate, that's why I asked you to be my guest and I offered your plane ticket. I fought against your Razakar Guru and your favourite Pakistani rapist military to save your and ours mothers, sisters and the people. I am not shy for any debate. But my any worker can answer your all questions. Even my son, a medical student in New York (born in America) can face your debate. I bet, he knows much more better than you about the Bangladesh liberation History being a proud son of a freedom fighter. Because, your learning is through the Pakistani eyes which is not the Bangladesh liberation history. But no doubt, I shall be present and will give you all sorts of protection and I shall surely speak there, too.
>  
>  
> Your debate proposal looks like a Street debate. I have a conference room in my own office in Jamaica, Queens, New York, where 300 people  can sit.  I shall offer my space for the debate at free of cost.
>  
> You need to write a book like Sharmila Bose to have a debate. So, bring your own book and we can have debate on that like Sharmila had her book on debate in Washington, DC where many of my friends went and debated about the authenticity of her book and the reality of the ground during 1971 liberation war. Obviously, Ms. Bose failed to answer and was embarrased and speechless at the debate. So, the issues you are raising siding with Ms. Bose were already debated.
>  
> If your problem is with the number of 3 million people killed by the Pakistanis and razakars during our liberation war, then just calculate: There were 68,000 villages, 64 Subdivisional (now district) cities, 17 Districts including the big cities like Dhaka, Chittagong, Khulna, Rajshahi, Sylhet, Jessore, Comilla and more. There were cantonments, police lines, and EPR camps. People were killed in all these places. People were also killed and died during mass exodus to India where 10 million people took shelter. Thousands died at the refugee camps, too. If in average, 44 people were killed in each village, then you get the 3 million figures. But, at least half of the 3 million people were killed in the cities and urban areas. So, we came down to 22 people were killed in each village. In addition, people were killed and died on way to India, at the refugee camps and at the war fronts. We witnessed more than 22 people were killed in each village in average
> during the 9 month war. So, there should not be any questions or confusions about the 3 million figures.
>  
> You have claimed to be a Pakistani/Razakar supporter. There is no amount of arguments that can change your mind, understanding and believes. Your only wish is to kill Sheikh Hasina. Did you check the politics of the country where you are living? Can you tell anything against the Amir/Sultan of Kuwait? How many people are being killed by the dynasty/regimes of Lybia, Syria, Egypt, Tunisia, Yemen, Bahrain, Sudan and even in Saudi Arabia? Bangladesh is much more better than your Pakistan and other Muslim countries. Dynasty in Bangladesh is changing every five years either by peoples vote or by military. No one is ruling Bangladesh for 30 to 40 years. So, if you want  to change anything, then first start from your home country which is Kuwait and the neighboing countries. You can also join Jamat in Bangladesh and start changing the dynasty here.
>  
> Many supermen like Dr. Fakruddin and Dr. Yunus tried but failed. Ershad, Nizami, Dr. Kamal Hossain, Dr. B. Chowdhury, Col. Oli, all leftists have failed, too. Bangladesh people some how do not like any superman but the two ladies who are representing 2 dynasties. That is the reality of the Bangladesg politics now. So, just don't blame only Sheikh Hasina as you being a Pakistani psychophant.
>  
>  You were either a baby or not born when I fought your Razakar Guru and Pakistani munibs. What I can debate with you?
>  
> Please bring Gen. Niazi, Go Azam and Nizami to have a debate with me.
>  
>  
> Thank you.
>  
> Dr. Mohsin Ali.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>
> --- On Mon, 5/16/11, ezajur Ezajur@... wrote:
>
>
> From: ezajur Ezajur@...
> Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: Dr Mohsin Ali - A challenge
> To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, May 16, 2011, 6:32 AM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
> Dear Dr Mohsin Ali
>  
> You have refused the challenge on the subjects I mentioned. Please don't refer me to your hundreds of workers. I know the `worker' type. I challenged you fairly.
>  
> Thank you for inviting me to NY and offering me a plane ticket. However as I am coming anyway I must refuse. Don't be surprised â€" I'm just not from the political culture you are used to. Save the money for treating the next AL MP to visit the Big Apple. However you can, if you wish, use the plane ticket money to pay for the venue and dinner.  
>  
> Yes, I can visualize how your brain functions. Don't be offended. You should be able to visualize how my brain works.
>  
> I find deficit in anyone who is a Nethrist and who subscribes to the Nethri system.
>  
> "You subscribe the ideals and deeds of the Pakistanis and the Razakars regarding our Liberation war of 1971." I am therefore, in effect, a rajakar to you. Your argument is valid even though I was not around in 1971. If indeed I do subscribe to such ideals.
>  
> Sharmilla Bose is entitled to question Pakistani Generals and write their account. She, and those Generals, don't care a whit about Bangladesh thinks. Such is their nature. And such is the Bangladesh that has been built.
>  
> I agree that we cannot compare the deaths caused in a defensive action with those deaths caused in a hostile action. That does not mean that atrocities committed by defenders are irrelevant. That does not mean that defenders should not measure their losses. And that certainly does not mean that numbers are used to prop up a rotten political system.  Â Ã‚ Ã‚ 
>  
> And you are rather selective in comparing us with the likes of the US , UK , Germany etc. They at least count their losses and don't use their dead for political purposes decades after the war is over.
>  
> There are many Bangladeshis, in NY too, who are anti Jewish and question whether 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust. I am not one of them because I believe that the 6 million number has been adequately substantiated â€" their names and bones and graveyards exist.
>  
> I do not need to be lectured on how to respect my elders or how to respect a true freedom fighter â€" you are both. But this is not about your credibility or your position. This is about our country. If I am aggressive it is only because I see you as an integral part of the status quo politics.
>  
> You have not built the country, or political culture, since 1971, irrespective of obstacles, which would oblige me to bow your medal or wound in 2011. I wish it was not the case. I wish you built an AL that I could join. I wish you built a country that would force me to kneel before you. But you couldn't or wouldn't. Instead you have built a cult of personality, crushed dissent, prevented reform and turned integrity into a weakness.
>  
> Mujib was a great man in 1971. But I don't want to be like the people who praise him for political gain in 2011. And I am not alone.
>  
> You are a 1971 freedom fighter who is shaping AL in 2011. You think I can't challenge you on 1971 when 1971 is the very basis on which you claim your stake as a leading Nethrist and supporter of the Nethrist system? I can challenge you. I will and I do.
>  
> You did a great job in 1971 and you are doing a lousy job in 2011.
>  
> Just make sure you understand the subject of the debate precisely. My opening sentence will be independence was necessary, Mujib was great, Pakistanis were rotten, genocide happened, Dr Mohsin Ali is a great freedom fighter. I don't want you lost for words thereafter.
>  
> The challenge still stands. You may pay for the venue and dinner if you wish. My other terms stay the same.
>  
> You are free to laugh at me. You have earned the right. I have no right to laugh at you. You are far too serious an obstacle to progress.
>  
> Ezajur Rahman
> Kuwait
>  
> --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. M. Mohsin Ali" drmohsinali@ wrote:
> >
> > Mr. Ezajur,
> >  
> > You have made me laugh. I do not need to take your challenge. I have hundreds of workers in New York and any one of them can take your challenge. Please do not try to be proud and make me fool by throwing a silly challenge. You are most welcome to come to New York and be my guest. If you want I can pay your plane ticket, even. Just please read the book, "The Bullets of 1971" of Dr. Nuran Nabi of New Jersey where you can get all the answers of your challenges and the claims of Sharmila Bose.
> >  
> > Please read my short e-mail again and again. I thought you are a super brain man, at least in your postings of the last 10 plus years, which shows that you are the number one intellectuals of the Bengalis and in the world. You find deficits in every persons postings and thoughts. Your brain chemical is so sharp and super quality that your can even visualize how the brains of other persons function.
> >  
> > However, I did not say that you were a Razakar. I wrote that when you were supporting Sharmila Bose.s book, you were signing with the Pakistanis and Razakars, that did not mean that you ware a razakar, You subscribe the ideals and deeds of the Pakistanis and the Razakars regarding our Liberation war of 1971. As I wrote before that Sharmila Bose wrote her book based on and referring to the accounts of the Pakistani Generals who fought the war to kill the Bengalis in 1971. You cannot challenge the number of 6 million jews killed by Hilter and cannot compare the killings of jews by Hilter with the Germans killed by the American, Brithish, Russia and France in action of war. Similarly, you cannot challenge the numbers of 3 million Benaglis killed by the Pakistani military and their supporters. You cannot compare the Bengalis killed by the Pakistani and their supporters with the Pakistani supporters killed by the Freedom Fighters or others in action
> during
> > the liberation war. These are all written in the history. There are thousands of pages of reports stored in the archives all over the world about the killings of Bengalis by the Pakistanis and their collaborators, You just need to research those documents if you want to challenge any information of that time.
> >  
> > You told that you were not around during the liberation war of 1971 that means you were not born at that time. So, you were not a razakar and you did not witness the liberation war either. You heard or read about the liberation war from the Pakistani and razakar side only.. You must be al teast 19 years junior to me. Because, I was 19 years old in 1971 and I participated in the liberation war and became a thana level commander (Gurudaspur Thana of now Natore District, you can check my background). So, I fought for our liberation war and we made the history. So, please do not dare to challenge a freedom Fighter Commander about the Freedom Fight unless you are real Razakar or Pakistani against whom I fought directly.
> >  
> > Please check the movie made on me by BBC, London, UK in 1972, "The Children of the Fire"
> >  
> > Also, please read the article written on me published with my picture in The Daily Guardian of London, UK on August 14, 1972.
> >  
> > Also please read the article written on me entitled, "The Peace Heros" by Alex Brodie of London, published in the Monthly Magazine, The New Internationalist" with my pictures in April, 1973.
> >  
> > I think, that should be enough for now.
> >  
> > Thank you.
> >  
> > Dr. Mohsin Ali, New York (Now visiting Bangladesh, May 16, 2011 1:52 AM.
> >
> >
> > --- On Sun, 5/15/11, Faruque Alamgir faruquealamgir@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Faruque Alamgir faruquealamgir@
> > Subject: Re: [ALOCHONA] Dr Mohsin Ali - A challenge
> > To: alochona@yahoogroups.com, "wideminds" WideMinds@yahoogroups.com, "dahuk" dahuk@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Abid Bahar" abidbahar@, notun_bangladesh@yahoogroups.com, "Nayan Khan" udarakash08@, mohiuddin@, zoglul@, "Bangla Zindabad" Bangladesh-Zindabad@yahoogroups.com, "Sonar Bangladesh" sonarbangladesh@yahoogroups.com, serajurrahman@, "ovimot yahoogroups" Ovimot@yahoogroups.com, farhadmazhar@, "History islam" history_islam@yahoogroups.com, alapon@yahoogroups.com
> > Cc: "ezajur" Ezajur@
> > Date: Sunday, May 15, 2011, 11:32 AM
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> > Friends
> >
> >
> > The proposition of Mr. Ezazur is not only courageous but also timely since the BALIST have made the life of Bangladeshis hell by playing the same "Bhanga" record on and on thousands of  days and on. They are trying their best with the connivance of the congenital liars "Gwan Papis" the so-called self declared Jibis to change the original history of our only pride the great "Mohan mukti Judhdha". 
> >
> >
> > By such distortion of truth/facts the newly born Projonmo started believing that the " Historic Bhasha Andolon(the Language Movement) was conducted from Faridpur Jail and the Mohan Mukti Judhdha was directed from Cantonment jail in Larkana, Pakistan by issuing "CHIRCUT"(???).
> >
> >
> > Ezazur Bhai go ahead all Bangladeshis are with you and the truth. But brother, I doubt that whether the opponent do possess the courage to accept challenge of truth ???????????
> >
> >
> > Salam and sincere regards.
> >
> >
> > Faruque Alamgir
> >
> >
> > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 2:44 PM, ezajur Ezajur@ wrote:
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I believe that Sharmila Bose has questioned the narrative of people like you and Farida Majid and that can only be a good thing. As such I am morally obliged to take her side against blind party loyalists like you even though she could have done a much better job and has made mistakes in her approach. I was not around in 1971 - so I'm confident I'm not a rajakar.
> > Lets dance.
> > I shall probably visit NY this summer. I invite you to reserve any venue in Astoria, Woodside, Jamaica etc. Book it for a 100 people including dinner. I will pick up the bill. We will have a frank debate - just you and me. I will come alone but if I can get a local youth organisation to attend I will do so. Please bring your fellow AL doctors, professors, advisors and committee members. I have the following non negotiable conditions:
> > 1. At least 20 young people over the age of 18 must attend. At least 10 must be children of AL committee members. You must introduce me to each one before the discussion.
> > 2. We each speak for 2 sessions of 30 minutes each - ie 2 hours in total.
> > 3. If I am interrupted by your members you pay me $1,000. And vice versa.
> > 4. Two subjects: 1) the 3 million dead of 1971 and 2) the difference between your politics and my politics.
> > 5.  You can choose any elder to be the conductor as long as he has a beard.
> > I will take any number of questions. There is no winner, just a free discussion. You are welcome to bring local Deshi tv. I will also try. The transcript of the discussion will be edited by a dignitary agreed by both of us in advance of the discussion. The edited transcript will be available for reproduction without permission from you or me.
> > Lets see if you know my real face or if I know your real face.
> > I am waiting for your reply.
> > Ezajur Rahman
> > Kuwait
> >  
> >  
> >  Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ Ã‚ 
> >  
> >
> > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. M. Mohsin Ali" drmohsinali@ wrote:
> > >
> > > SO, MR. EZAJUR, YOU BELIEVE THE STORY OF MS. SHARMILA BOSE WHICH IS THE STORY OF THE PAKISTANI MILITARY ABOUT OUR GREAT LIBERATION WAR. YOU ARE SIGNING WITH THE PAKISTANIS AND THE RAZAKARS. THAT'S WHY YOU NEVER LIKED SHEIKH MUJIB AS HE BROKE YOUR BELAOVED PAKISTAN. THAT IS YOUR REAL FACE.
> > >
> > > --- On Sat, 5/14/11, ezajur Ezajur@ wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: ezajur Ezajur@
> > > Subject: [ALOCHONA] Re: A response to Myth-busting of Bangladesh war of 1971 by Sarmila Bose in english.aljazeera.net
> > > To: alochona@yahoogroups.com
> > > Date: Saturday, May 14, 2011, 10:25 AM
> > >
> > >
> > > Ãâ€Å¡Ãƒ‚ 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sarmila Bose has made a stand against the myth of 1971 and the dominant post war narrative and those who have profited from it.
> > >
> > > The myth of 1971 is that 3 million people Bengalis were exterminated. As proven by the lack of any meaningful effort to measure the number of deaths by successive governments of Bangladesh.
> > >
> > > The dominant narrative of 1971 has been that the myth of 1971 is real and that those who shout about it are those who are fit to govern best. As proven by the behaviour of every successive government.
> > >
> > > Those who have profited are those who have publicly promoted the myth and privately benefitted with power and money. As proven by the behaviour of every successive government.
> > >
> > > What Farida cannot abide is that anyone can question anything about 1971 because it is the myth of 1971 that, in her mind, empowers her and her politics, to focus on what they want, ignore what they want and rule as they see fit. Screw them.
> > >
> > > The creation of the myth of 1971 was the first step in the ruination of our country. We have been on our knees ever since. Bridges and export earnings cannot measure our people. Our people deserve better. And as AL and BNP and Jammat relish the orgy of their gross self indulgence they ignore the future at the nation's peril.
> > >
> > > If BNP of JI thugs commit rape, murder and extortion, as they do, the Farida Majids of our country will protest. If AL thugs commit rape, murder and extortion, as they do, the Farida Majids of our country keep quiet. There are Farida Majids in BNP and JI.
> > >
> > > Screw all these bloody hypocrites. They believe they are true to their dead leader, their dead father and their dead values.
> > >
> > > They, and the rest of us, will soon enough return to the soil of our country, in which lies buried the truth and best spirit of our people and our beautiful country.
> > >
> > > Just look at the condition of our country! You know why there is no class war in Bangladesh? You know know why our guitarists can't bend their knees?
> > >
> > > May our soil accept our flesh and bones as payment for the truth and may that truth embrace the next generation.
> > >
> > > To all hypocrites - Ãâ€Å¡Ãƒ‚£Ãƒâ€Å¡Ãƒ‚£Ãƒâ€Å¡Ãƒ‚£Ãƒâ€Å¡Ãƒ‚£ you!
> > >
> > > Ezajur Rahman
> > >
> > > Its so loud, inside in my head
> > > With words that I should have said.
> > > As I drown in my regrets
> > > I can't take back
> > > the words I never said.
> > > Lupe Fiasco
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In alochona@yahoogroups.com, Farida Majid farida_majid@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/05/20115983958114219.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bangladesh war of 1971 Myth-busting Piece by Sarmila Bose in Al Jazeera.net :
> > > > Farida Majid
> > > >
> > > > Here we have Sarmila Bose whining on and on against the `dominant narrative' and pushing her insubstantial book, Dead Reckoning: Memories of the 1971 Bangladesh War, as a scholarly work that is meant to bust the myth of Bangladesh war of independence in 1971. Her book's spin is strung around a few instances of atrocities committed by Mukti fighters upon non-Bengali collaborators of Pakistan at the time. No one denies those cruel acts of retaliation. All wars are cruel and ugly. But by themselves those acts, or her other fieldwork denying widespread rape and murder (questioning the occurrence of any rape by Pakistani soldiers since she could not get figures of exact date, time and place of each sexual assault), have not been able to disprove any of the well-known incidences of crimes against humanity committed by an uniformed, fully equipped with modern arms and ammunition, professionally trained Pakistani army and its Bengali collaborators in 1971.
> I
> > > doubt whether any of the `uncomfortable truth' she has unearthed could be presented at a War Crimes Tribunal as legal defense against the charges brought by the Prosecution at such a Tribunal.
> > > >
> > > > The harder Sarmila Bose whines about the `dominant narrative' the fuzzier gets her rationale for wanting to debunk it. Her citing of the example of Lara Logan, the CBS correspondent haplessly caught in the melee of Tahrir Square in Cairo in the spring uprising of 2011, shows to what pathetic extent Bose lacks sympathy and imagination in assessing the overall reality of people's struggle for freedom from oppression. Such struggles in the annals of history are messy, never picture-book perfect. Sarmila though is unforgiving, and is too mean-spirited to tolerate "freedom and democracy-loving people rising up against oppressive dictators." She has to take up the arms of a `scholarly study' to bust the myth!
> > > >
> > > > What is the 'myth' that she is so anxious to bust?
> > > >
> > > > Is genocide in Bangladesh, 1971, a myth?
> > > >
> > > > If it is a myth then are we to understand, after Ms Bose's so-called `research' and report, that genocide did not take place at all in 1971 in the then East Pakistan? The "dominant narrative" is all about partisan exaggeration and no one in the international community but her could detect the "uncomfortable truth" in all these 40 years.
> > > >
> > > > Who does she mean by those "who have profited for so long from mythologising the history of 1971"?
> > > > Does she mean the people of Bangladesh, the world's eighth most populous nation? Does `profit' mean gaining the sovereignty and independence as a nation?
> > > >
> > > > If so, then all nations who have had to fight for independence from a colonized condition ought to be labeled as having "profited from mythologizing history." And that would include United States of America.
> > > > Go tell an American that the chronicles of wars and battles fought in the American War of Independence during 1775-1783 are all mythologised history, and hence a `dominant narrative', a myth that is in dire need of busting!
> > > >
> > > > Let us remind ourselves of the announcement of Gen. Yahya Khan at a radio interview at the launching of the Operation Searchlight in March, 1971 in East Pakistan: "We will kill three million of them, and they will eat out of our hands!" The number âââ€Å¡Ã‚¬"3 million âââ€Å¡Ã‚¬" is immaterial, though admittedly there is an irresolvable argument that swirls around it. What is legally relevant here, however, is the clear expression of goal and intent to commit genocide by Pak military apparatus in East Pakistan.
> > > >
> > > > New evidences are emerging, not just from the victims of the war crimes of 1971, but from the perpetrators themselves. Eye witnesses and personal encounters from among the Pakistani military personnel are coming up with accounts of General Niazi, General Rao Farman Ali, et al, exhibiting fierce anti-Bengali racism that underscored activities against unarmed, unthreatening civilians. Such activities were regarded as reprehensive by even the soldiers who carried out the orders because they violated the rules and norms of engagement in warfare. Several books have come out over the years by various Pakistani army personnel including one by the infamous General Niazi. They are all replete with quotations and records of utter racial contempt for the Bengalis of East Pakistan on the part of top brass military officers in the Pakistani army who wanted at least a partial destruction of the whole race of Bengalis as a punitive measure for their rebellion.
> > > >
> > > > We can then proceed to take a peek at the following U. N. Convetion:
> > > >
> > > > Excerpt from the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide (For full text click here)
> > > >
> > > > "Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
> > > >
> > > > (a) Killing members of the group;
> > > > (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
> > > > (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
> > > > (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
> > > > (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
> > > >
> > > > Article III: The following acts shall be punishable:
> > > >
> > > > (a) Genocide;
> > > > (b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;
> > > > (c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;
> > > > (d) Attempt to commit genocide;
> > > > (e) Complicity in genocide. "
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Let us all work for peace as best as each of us can.
> > > >
> > > > Salutes!
> > > >
> > > > Farida Majid
> > > >
> > >
> >
>



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