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Monday, May 4, 2015

Re: [mukto-mona] Will Pakistan Be Declared A Secular State



If a devout catholic country like France could be secular, so could be Pakistan. Mono/ditheism isn't far from secularism. Just put God and Devil in one coffin and bury it in the dust bin of history.

Sent from my iPad

On May 5, 2015, at 5:17 AM, Shah Deeldar shahdeeldar@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

It is simply too late for Pakistan to be a secular state when the number of minorities have been dwindling dangerously since 1947. Only Shias and Ahmedias would be standing there in Pakistan to fight for their final existence. I am sorry to pour cold water into your innocent and naive wish. Pakistan has not figure out yet what it wants in the future.
 




On Monday, May 4, 2015 6:33 PM, "Ghulam Mustafa Lakho gmlakho.advocate@gmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
No matter, there is or is not a popular demand for declaring Pakistan a secular state; the Supreme Court can help to the victims of the State Religion. The Honorable Supreme Court of Pakistan may SAY NO TO STATE RELIGION just by taking suo motu notice declaring in the light of eleven (11) word of Mr. M. A. Jinnah that religion has NOTHING to do with the business of the State; that the constitutionally recognized State Religion proves that religion has EVERYTHING to do with the business of the State; that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights hits this kind of constitutionally recognized religious privilege; that Pakistan is the signatory of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights; and that the Constitution of Pakistan must guarantee equality, neutrality and peaceful co-existence between belief and disbelief. Let the print and electronic media of Pakistan request by writing editorials, articles, letters, etc., etc., to the Honorable Supreme Court of Pakistan to take suo motu action for SAYING NO TO STATE RELIGION. In the meanwhile, let the Constitution Makers move the bill in the Constituent Assembly and get rid of the State Religion. Let them SAY NO TO STATE RELIGION now. Dear Reader, if you agree, please spread this message requesting the Honorable Supreme Court of Pakistan TO SAY NO TO STATE RELIGION. -- Will Pakistan Be Declared A Secular State <http://www.christiansinpakistan.com/will-pakistan-be-declared-a-secular-state/>. G. M. Lakho, ASC 




__._,_.___

Posted by: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>


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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





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Re: [mukto-mona] Enjoy



Contrary to common belief, even Islam ain't free from caste system. Al Barani, a contemporary of Muhammad bin Tughlaq defended it. In his time, the number of castes in Islam was a little less than four hundred. Buddhism, Christianity, and Judaism also have it. An ignoramus can put as much mud on himself as he wants. Such an idiot should follow the steps of Suman Kabir.

Sent from my iPad

On May 5, 2015, at 5:57 AM, Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

"Dr. Jiten Roy compared casteism and discrimination against women in Hinduism as a mosquito bite while the same thing in other organized religions as tiger bites."
I always regret to reply to idiotic response, like this, because it's a misstatement of my comment.
The format of this forum does not allow me to qualify all comments with enough details that is required for some people to understand.
First, Hinduism is not an organized religion; in fact, it's the most disorganized religion on earth, which recognizes all religions, all interpretations (Mots), and all paths (ways).  
Second, caste-ism is not the religious communality, because - caste-ism occurs within the same religious boundary, and affects communities within the same religion only. On the contrary, religious communality occurs across the religious boundary, and affects all other religious communities.
In fact, caste-ism of Hinduism helped other organized religions (Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism, etc.) to spread and flourish in India, instead of affecting them negatively.
That why, I compared caste-ism of Hinduism to mosquito-bite, and religious communality with tiger-bite. Also, Mr. Chakraborty, this comment has nothing to do with discrimination of women in religion, which is a different topic altogether.
I think - your thoughts are messed up with too many issues.   
Jiten Roy

 

From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2015 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Enjoy

 
I think both Bangladesh and india have some sort of blasphemy law. He can be prosecuted if the government wants to. Having said this I must say that I do not believe in blasphemy law. 

Moreover, spreading hatred against women in an open forum can be taken seriously by the women's rights groups and the feminists. I claim myself to be belonging to the latter group. So logically I am justified to seek justice. 

In a different but related thread Dr. Jiten Roy compared casteism and discrimination against women in Hinduism as a mosquito bite while the same thing in other organized religions as tiger bites. He did not elaborate on it. It was a single liner. 

Sent from my iPhone



On May 3, 2015, at 1:19 PM, Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
If bringing to justice means punishment by a court of law or worse, Professor Chakrabarty's statement would be disappointing; as he is an otherwise rational intellectual. If the speaker committed the so-called blasphemy, even by intentional falsification (which is worse than misinterpretation) of Islam, the punishment for him should be from the proclaimed almighty, Allah, not from humans individually or collectively (society/government). The so-called Ulema and people in general could criticize/disown him, nothing more.
 
SuBain
 
=================================== 



On Sunday, May 3, 2015 1:37 PM, "subimal chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
If Prof. Majid is right (I am sure she is), the speaker is committing 'blasphemy' by mentioning a Surah which does not exist in the Koran. He should be identified, caught, and brought to justice. The entire Ulema should also protest. 



On Sunday, May 3, 2015 10:31 AM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
 
The trouble is - not many people has the ability to interpret the religious scriptures, and they depend on these readily available sources for understanding the religious teachings, which should be a grave concern for the society, in my view.
Unfortunately, there is no accountability of any preacher, and anything can go in the name of religion. Some cunning people are taking advantage of this situation, and they have taken up the religious preaching, as a living, without knowing much about the religion, and they are passing political and personal interests as divine religious doctrines.  This should not be the case.
Since the society revolves around religion, Government must control these individuals through the Religious Affairs' Ministry. Otherwise, society will be polluted beyond repair. We need to remember, religious freedom only gives freedom to practice religion. Unfiltered religious propaganda is not a part of the religious freedom.  
Jiten Roy
    
 

From: "Farida Majid farida_majid@hotmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2015 1:28 AM
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Enjoy

 
He is LYING in the name of Allah! He has uttered gobbledygook - some Arabic sounding gibberish. It is certainly not any ayah from any Surah of the Qur'an that says what he says it says. There is no Bokhari, no Muslim Hadith that say what he says they say. His audience is fooled and bullied. He should be reported to the Police for purposefully distorting Holy Scriptures in order to incite social unrest.

I have forwarded the video to a member of the Law Commission asking for suggestions to curb such outrageous public bullying.






From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 13:46:28 -0500
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Enjoy

 
Can we get reference? I understand it was in Dhaka, but who is the speaker? Does he belong to an Islamic political party? Has it been recorded by the speaker for public consumption or some one videoed it secretly and then put the same on YouTube? 

Sent from my iPhone

On May 2, 2015, at 9:05 AM, Sitangshu Guha guhasb@gmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:











__._,_.___

Posted by: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Enjoy



Putting blasphemy law in practice in Bangladesh? You must be kidding? These idiotic preachers would not have any problem with the law.... but poor minorities would be falsely framed in no time like what has been going on in Pakistan in the name of blasphemy law. I do think the man has committed any blasphemous crime here. He was only trying to entertain people with some soft juicy stuff in the heaven. Please digest these soft huries in heaven as metaphor for something great and desirable for human consumption. 
The good thing is that if these people are saving their lust for the heavenly huries, that might be a good thing in disguise?  Our worldly huries can breathe easily from their hungry eyes? :-)
 




On Monday, May 4, 2015 6:16 PM, "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
I think both Bangladesh and india have some sort of blasphemy law. He can be prosecuted if the government wants to. Having said this I must say that I do not believe in blasphemy law. 

Moreover, spreading hatred against women in an open forum can be taken seriously by the women's rights groups and the feminists. I claim myself to be belonging to the latter group. So logically I am justified to seek justice. 

In a different but related thread Dr. Jiten Roy compared casteism and discrimination against women in Hinduism as a mosquito bite while the same thing in other organized religions as tiger bites. He did not elaborate on it. It was a single liner. 

Sent from my iPhone

On May 3, 2015, at 1:19 PM, Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
If bringing to justice means punishment by a court of law or worse, Professor Chakrabarty's statement would be disappointing; as he is an otherwise rational intellectual. If the speaker committed the so-called blasphemy, even by intentional falsification (which is worse than misinterpretation) of Islam, the punishment for him should be from the proclaimed almighty, Allah, not from humans individually or collectively (society/government). The so-called Ulema and people in general could criticize/disown him, nothing more.
 
SuBain
 
=================================== 



On Sunday, May 3, 2015 1:37 PM, "subimal chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
If Prof. Majid is right (I am sure she is), the speaker is committing 'blasphemy' by mentioning a Surah which does not exist in the Koran. He should be identified, caught, and brought to justice. The entire Ulema should also protest. 



On Sunday, May 3, 2015 10:31 AM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
 
The trouble is - not many people has the ability to interpret the religious scriptures, and they depend on these readily available sources for understanding the religious teachings, which should be a grave concern for the society, in my view.
Unfortunately, there is no accountability of any preacher, and anything can go in the name of religion. Some cunning people are taking advantage of this situation, and they have taken up the religious preaching, as a living, without knowing much about the religion, and they are passing political and personal interests as divine religious doctrines.  This should not be the case.
Since the society revolves around religion, Government must control these individuals through the Religious Affairs' Ministry. Otherwise, society will be polluted beyond repair. We need to remember, religious freedom only gives freedom to practice religion. Unfiltered religious propaganda is not a part of the religious freedom.  
Jiten Roy
    
 

From: "Farida Majid farida_majid@hotmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2015 1:28 AM
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Enjoy

 
He is LYING in the name of Allah! He has uttered gobbledygook - some Arabic sounding gibberish. It is certainly not any ayah from any Surah of the Qur'an that says what he says it says. There is no Bokhari, no Muslim Hadith that say what he says they say. His audience is fooled and bullied. He should be reported to the Police for purposefully distorting Holy Scriptures in order to incite social unrest.

I have forwarded the video to a member of the Law Commission asking for suggestions to curb such outrageous public bullying.






From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 13:46:28 -0500
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Enjoy

 
Can we get reference? I understand it was in Dhaka, but who is the speaker? Does he belong to an Islamic political party? Has it been recorded by the speaker for public consumption or some one videoed it secretly and then put the same on YouTube? 

Sent from my iPhone

On May 2, 2015, at 9:05 AM, Sitangshu Guha guhasb@gmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:











__._,_.___

Posted by: Shah Deeldar <shahdeeldar@yahoo.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___

Re: [mukto-mona] Enjoy



"Dr. Jiten Roy compared casteism and discrimination against women in Hinduism as a mosquito bite while the same thing in other organized religions as tiger bites."
I always regret to reply to idiotic response, like this, because it's a misstatement of my comment.
The format of this forum does not allow me to qualify all comments with enough details that is required for some people to understand.
First, Hinduism is not an organized religion; in fact, it's the most disorganized religion on earth, which recognizes all religions, all interpretations (Mots), and all paths (ways).  
Second, caste-ism is not the religious communality, because - caste-ism occurs within the same religious boundary, and affects communities within the same religion only. On the contrary, religious communality occurs across the religious boundary, and affects all other religious communities.
In fact, caste-ism of Hinduism helped other organized religions (Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism, etc.) to spread and flourish in India, instead of affecting them negatively.
That why, I compared caste-ism of Hinduism to mosquito-bite, and religious communality with tiger-bite. Also, Mr. Chakraborty, this comment has nothing to do with discrimination of women in religion, which is a different topic altogether.
I think - your thoughts are messed up with too many issues.   
Jiten Roy

 

From: "Subimal Chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2015 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Enjoy

 
I think both Bangladesh and india have some sort of blasphemy law. He can be prosecuted if the government wants to. Having said this I must say that I do not believe in blasphemy law. 

Moreover, spreading hatred against women in an open forum can be taken seriously by the women's rights groups and the feminists. I claim myself to be belonging to the latter group. So logically I am justified to seek justice. 

In a different but related thread Dr. Jiten Roy compared casteism and discrimination against women in Hinduism as a mosquito bite while the same thing in other organized religions as tiger bites. He did not elaborate on it. It was a single liner. 

Sent from my iPhone



On May 3, 2015, at 1:19 PM, Sukhamaya Bain subain1@yahoo.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
If bringing to justice means punishment by a court of law or worse, Professor Chakrabarty's statement would be disappointing; as he is an otherwise rational intellectual. If the speaker committed the so-called blasphemy, even by intentional falsification (which is worse than misinterpretation) of Islam, the punishment for him should be from the proclaimed almighty, Allah, not from humans individually or collectively (society/government). The so-called Ulema and people in general could criticize/disown him, nothing more.
 
SuBain
 
=================================== 



On Sunday, May 3, 2015 1:37 PM, "subimal chakrabarty subimal@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
If Prof. Majid is right (I am sure she is), the speaker is committing 'blasphemy' by mentioning a Surah which does not exist in the Koran. He should be identified, caught, and brought to justice. The entire Ulema should also protest. 



On Sunday, May 3, 2015 10:31 AM, "Jiten Roy jnrsr53@yahoo.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
 
The trouble is - not many people has the ability to interpret the religious scriptures, and they depend on these readily available sources for understanding the religious teachings, which should be a grave concern for the society, in my view.
Unfortunately, there is no accountability of any preacher, and anything can go in the name of religion. Some cunning people are taking advantage of this situation, and they have taken up the religious preaching, as a living, without knowing much about the religion, and they are passing political and personal interests as divine religious doctrines.  This should not be the case.
Since the society revolves around religion, Government must control these individuals through the Religious Affairs' Ministry. Otherwise, society will be polluted beyond repair. We need to remember, religious freedom only gives freedom to practice religion. Unfiltered religious propaganda is not a part of the religious freedom.  
Jiten Roy
    
 

From: "Farida Majid farida_majid@hotmail.com [mukto-mona]" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2015 1:28 AM
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Enjoy

 
He is LYING in the name of Allah! He has uttered gobbledygook - some Arabic sounding gibberish. It is certainly not any ayah from any Surah of the Qur'an that says what he says it says. There is no Bokhari, no Muslim Hadith that say what he says they say. His audience is fooled and bullied. He should be reported to the Police for purposefully distorting Holy Scriptures in order to incite social unrest.

I have forwarded the video to a member of the Law Commission asking for suggestions to curb such outrageous public bullying.






From: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 13:46:28 -0500
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Enjoy

 
Can we get reference? I understand it was in Dhaka, but who is the speaker? Does he belong to an Islamic political party? Has it been recorded by the speaker for public consumption or some one videoed it secretly and then put the same on YouTube? 

Sent from my iPhone

On May 2, 2015, at 9:05 AM, Sitangshu Guha guhasb@gmail.com [mukto-mona] <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com> wrote:











__._,_.___

Posted by: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>


****************************************************
Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

****************************************************

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190





__,_._,___