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Sunday, March 25, 2012

Re: [ALOCHONA] Prof.Ghulam Azam's citizenship: Who granted it?




http://www.somewhereinblog.net/blog/Habibfprblog/29566199

  http://www.amarblog.com/habib/posts/145408


From: Shahadat Hussaini <shahadathussaini@hotmail.com>
To: Bangladeshi American <bangladeshiamericans@googlegroups.com>; Khobor Yahoo <khabor@yahoogroups.com>; Alochona Groups <alochona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 11:49 PM
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Prof.Ghulam Azam's citizenship: Who granted it?

 
 
 

Prof.Ghulam Azam's citizenship: Who granted it?

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Monday, 13 February 2012 01:05
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Ghulam Azam's citizenship: Who granted it?



It was none other than Justice Muhammed Habibur Rahman who issued the verdict in favour of restoring Ghulam Azam's citizenship.There remains a controversy as to who restored the citizenship of Ghulam Azam, now incarcerated, and awaiting trial for crimes against humanity. The present government and ruling party have always castigated the late President Ziaur Rahman and former Prime Minister Khaleda Zia for this. It was during Ziaur Rahman's rule that Ghulam Azam returned to Bangladesh and during Khaleda Zia's rule that his citizenship was restored.
While Awami League and its like-minded allies, as a political ploy, like to hold Ziaur Rahman and Khaleda Zia responsible for restoring Ghulam Azam's citizenship, actually it was not they who were the ones to bring this about. History indicates that they were both against the restoration of his citizenship.
It was the Supreme Court that restored Ghulam Azam's citizenship. Interestingly, it was none other than the well-respected and renowned former Chief Advisor of the caretaker government, Justice Muhammed Habibur Rahman, who passed that much discussed and debated verdict. In 1994 he was the senior most Judge of the Appellate Division after the Chief Justice. So if one studies the facts, actually neither Zia for Khaleda, not even BNP, can be held responsible for giving Ghulam Azam back his citizenship.
Ghulam Azam was made the Amir of Jamaat-e-Islami in East Pakistan in 1969. He was in this post till 1971 and, politically, he was opposed to the Liberation War of Bangladesh. He and his party sided with the Pakistan authorities at the time. Before Bangladesh won victory on December 16, 1971, Ghulam Azam left the country on November 22 and went to Pakistan. Bangladesh was independent, but he did not return.
On April 28, 1973, the citizenship of 38 pro-Pakistani political persons, including Ghulam Azam, was cancelled. Ghulam Azam then left Pakistan and went to stay in London.
On July 11, 1978, during the rule of President Ziaur Rahman, Ghulam Azam came to Bangladesh as a Pakistani citizen. In the book Ekatturer Ghatak O Dalalra Ke Kothai (edited by Dr. Ahmad Sharif, Kazi Nuruzzaman and Shahriar Kabir), it is written, "...On January 18, 1976, a press note of the Home Ministry stated that if anyone wanted their citizenship restored, they should apply accordingly. Ghulam Azam immediately applied for citizenship from London. He applied again in 1977 and 1978. In 1978 he came to Bangladesh on a Pakistani passport. He was given a visa on "humanitarian grounds", to visit his ailing mother.
He has been living in his Maghbazar house since then. Even after his visa expired, the government couldn't expel him from the country."
After Zia died, Justice Sattar came to power. General Ershad pushed him aside to take over power. During the nine years of his rule, Ghulam Azam had applied for citizenship, but this was not granted.
After Ershad was toppled in 1990, the Khaleda Zia-led BNP government came to power in 1991. At that time Jahanara Imam led a movement against Ghulam Azam and formed a People's Court to try him. When things got out of hand, Khaleda Zia's government arrested Ghulam Azam and sent him to jail. So he lived in the country from 1978 to 1994, a long 16 years, with neither visa nor citizenship.
Ghulam Azam submitted a writ to the High Court, requesting for his citizenship to be restored. According to Dhaka Law Report (45 DLR 1993), this was Writ Petition No. 1316 of 1992. In the Prof. Ghulam Azam vs Government of Bangladesh and others, the applicant's lawyers were AR Yusuf, Kurban Ali, Abdur Razzak and Nawab Ali. On the government side there was Attorney General Advocate Aminul Haque and Deputy Attorney General Hassan Arif.
The judges of this case were Justice Mohammed Ismail Uddin Sarkar, Justice Badrul Islam Chowdhury and Justice Anwarul Haque Chowdhury. In 1992 the High Court passed a verdict in favour of Ghulam Azam. Justice Mohammad Ismail Uddin Sarkar, who gave the dissenting judgment held as follows: "except some news items and one photograph showing that the Petitioner met General Tikka Khan or General Yahya Khan, there is nothing to directly implicate the petitioner in any of the atrocities alleged to have been perpetrated by the Pakistani Army or their associates- the Razakars, the Al Badars or the Al Shams. Except the Petitioner was hobnobbing with the Military Junta during the War of Liberation, we do not find any thing that the Petitioner was in any way directly involved in perpetuating the alleged atrocities during the war of independence." 
In 1993 the government lodged an appeal with the Appellate Division (Civil Appeal No. 58 of 1993)  against the High Court verdict in favour of Ghulam Azam. The judges in the Appellate Division were Justice Muhammed Habibur Rahman, Justice ATM Afzal, Justice Mustafa Kamal and Justice Latifur Rahman. The author judge was Justice Muhammed Habibur Rahman. After a long hearing, on June 22, 1994, the verdict of that writ restored Ghulam Azam's citizenship. Since then he has been residing here as a citizen of Bangladesh.
During the hearing of this case, Attorney General Aminul Haque pointed out that Ghulam Azam was a Pakistani citizen and held a Pakistani passport. He said that Ghulam Azam had been a collaborator of the Pakistan Army in 1971 and had been involved in all sorts of crimes for which his Bangladeshi citizenship had been cancelled. That was why, he concluded, Ghulam Azam could not be given citizenship. In response, the judges point out that he was a citizen of this country by birth. His forefathers had been of this country. Even if he lived in another country and took that citizenship, that still would not affect his citizenship in Bangladesh. As for his passport, they said that a passport was a temporary document, nothing permanent.
In the verdict restoring Ghulam Azam's citizenship, the honourable judge wrote, "...[excerpts] It must be stated here that the case made out by respondent No. 1 has not been controverted by specific denial by the Government-applicant. As a matter of fact no material could be brought on record by the appellant to show that the respondent really intended to leave his permanent residence and voluntarily acquired citizenship of Pakistan by any positive act and thereby he ceased to be a permanent resident of Bangladesh. The intention must be an intention to reside permanently or for an indefinite period, If a person goes to a country for employment, business, or to stay there for some other purposes, he will retain his permanent residence, i.e. his domicile of origin. The domicile of origin is thus a concept of law and clings to a man until he abandons it. But if it can be shown that the person has permanently settled down in a country and has established his permanent home and residence with his family and children, then of course, the matter will be different. By mere place of residence itself without any animus to acquire a permanent home or residence the permanent residence or domicile is never lost. For example, if the respondent would have purchased a house in Pakistan or estate coupled with long residence therein and non-retention of any home in his birth place it might be sufficient to prove the intention to acquire a new permanent home. It is on record that the respondent's wife and children are conti8nuously living in Bangladesh since before and after liberation of Bangladesh. Every person acquires his domicile of origin (permanent residence) at his birth, which continues until he has validly acquired domicile of choice. Thus even though a person leaves the country of his origin with intention of never returning to it, his domicile of origin in that country is never lost, until he has actually settled in another country with the intention of making that country his permanent home. In other words, the domicile of origin is not lost by mere temporary abandonment. Domicile of origin acquired subsists until it is replaced by a fresh domicile of choice. Hence residence in foreign country, going to imprisonment as a political refugee, or as invalid for change of climate or for service or diplomatic missions, studies and/or for business is not sufficient for acquisition of permanent residence. The permanent residence continues until a person had voluntarily relinquished and acquired a permanent residence in any country. [46 DLR (AD) 1994].
Anyway, after this there was mud-slinging in the political arena over the issue of Ghulam Azam's citizenship. Awami League and allies blame Ziaur Rahman and Khaleda Zia for this. The political blame game completely hid the legal angle of the matter. The judge who actually issued the verdict, Justice Muhammed Habibur Rahman, has never spoken on this head.
The 89-year-old Ghulam Azam now awaits trial. Khaleda Zia and her party say they too want the trial of war criminals or crimes against humanity. However, they insist that this must not be tainted by any political motives. The trial process must be acceptable internationally.

 




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Re: [ALOCHONA] Fw: Al-Badr: A pakistani killing squad during the liberation war of Bangladesh in 1971:


http://www.somewhereinblog.net/blog/Habibfprblog/29566199

  http://www.amarblog.com/habib/posts/145408


From: Muhammad Ali <manik195709@yahoo.com>
To:
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 9:32 AM
Subject: [ALOCHONA] Fw: Al-Badr: A pakistani killing squad during the liberation war of Bangladesh in 1971:


----- Forwarded Message -----
From: SyedAslam <syed.aslam3@gmail.com>
To: Khobor <khabor@yahoogroups.com>; notun Bangladesh <notun_bangladesh@yahoogroups.com>; chottala@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 10:11 PM
Subject: Al-Badr: A pakistani killing squad during the liberation war of Bangladesh in 1971:
 
Al-Badr: A pakistani killing squad during the liberation war of Bangladesh in 1971:
 
 

There was no genocide; it was a 'civil war'

Claims Shah A Hannan:

http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=9204
 
AL-BADAR AND JAMAT LEADERS:
 
 

ATN News- "Delwar Hossain Saydi in 1971"

BANGLADESH GENOCIDE 1971 - DHAKA University MASSACRE

Bangladesh Genocide: Attack on Dhaka (3/26/1971)

1971,Bangladesh Liberation War


Daily Star Sunday, October 28, 2007
Front Page

There was no genocide; it was a 'civil war'

Claims Shah A Hannan


Staff Correspondent
Known Jamaat-sympathiser and former Islami Bank chairman Shah Abdul Hannan has described the Liberation War of 1971 as a "civil war". He denied that genocide took place in the country at that time and that war criminals exist here.
Speaking on a talk show, Ekushey Shomoy, on private satellite television channel Ekushey Television on Friday, Hannan also expressed doubts that three million people died in the war and supported a Pakistani report according to which only 26,000 people or less died during the Liberation War.
The following is a transcript of his comments made on the talk show:
DENIAL OF WAR CRIMES
At the Simla Conference between India and Pakistan, Pakistani soldiers were released as war prisoners, not war criminals. So, I am in agreement with [Jamaat-e-Islami secretary general Ali Ahsan Mohammad] Mojaheed that there are no war criminals in the country.
There was an Awami League government until 1975 and there was another Awami League government in 1996, under which I worked as a secretary and I was even close to the administration. But they never thought of trying war criminals. Another major party BNP was in power during the rule of Ziaur Rahman and later came to power thrice, and at no point did they try to hold trials of the war criminals.
Since no one is making any claim and there are no cases filed with the court--Bangladesh government is the entity that can file a case and has never filed a case against anyone--I will continue to say there are no war criminals in this country until the government files a case against anyone.
CIVIL WAR, NOT LIBERATION WAR
I frankly think it was a liberation war but it was also a civil war not only in the sense that it was between West and East Pakistan but also because it was a fight between political forces supporting a untied Pakistan and an independent Bangladesh.
If they can prove that these things [war crimes] were done in 1971, let them take it to court. The constitution mentions that Bangladesh was created through a liberation war--yes, it is true. But plenty of people say it was a civil war.
I know this much that in 1971 there was a civil war...Fine, it was also a Muktijuddha...From what I have read in foreign newspapers and encyclopaedia, it was a civil war and most people did not call it a "struggle for freedom". But there is no doubt that it was a genuine freedom fight by the people of Bangladesh. It was an excitable time and the population was also more or less divided. So, those who thought at that time that it was not right to break up Pakistan with the help of India held the view that they should stay on the side of the then Pakistan administration politically, not for violence. The other side thought they should unite with India to gain independence. There were a lot of excesses back then--not only members of one community died--Hindus died, Muslims died, Biharies died, Bangalees died, wives died, children died, women died, men died...And the number, I do not know anything about three million deaths. There was no survey in 1972, not in 1974, and never. That is why these numbers are allowed to be mentioned. I urge the current government to conduct a survey so this problem is solved. It is not right to ask this to the caretaker government, ask this to the next elected government.
Bangalees were on both the sides, involved in the events before December 16, 1971. You have to judge in that political context. I think those who were against the idea of Bangladesh have shifted from that position. A lot of them are my good friends--they are patriotic, they defend Bangladesh, they are in a struggle to build Bangladesh and protect it from the attacks of other countries.
REACTION TO NIZAMI'S 1971 REMARKS
Genocide is a matter of definition. Not everything is genocide. The United Nations has not called this genocide. We can call this genocide or whatever. Nizami could clarify his own quotes. But I know in the context of 1971, there was a civil war...and another war between India and Pakistan. Both Razakars and collaborators were killed as well as freedom fighters. It was a struggle between ethnic and political forces...Bangalees and Biharis were also fighting each other. So, it was not genocide. This is my personal opinion.
HAMOOD-UR-RAHMAN COMMISSION REPORT
[The commission was formed with the then Pakistan Supreme Court Chief Justice Hamood-ur-Rahman as the head to ascertain the facts of the 1971 debacle. It reported that 26,000 people or less died in the war.]
I cannot ignore the findings because he was a Bangalee, a judge of the High Court and the chief justice of the Supreme Court. But, it is our fault that the governments during the rule of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, Sheikh Hasina and Khaleda Zia did not conduct a survey. Wise men are still here who can still say how many people died in which village. Sheikh Mujib first said one million and then said 30 million and he is quoted in encyclopaedias. But they also did not conduct surveys. The truth needs to come out and the government needs to conduct a survey.
The matter of war criminals' right to participate in politics...Well, if they are found guilty, then they have no right to form a party, fine. But, until they are not proven guilty of war crimes they can...But, if they are proven guilty, do not let them form parties, imprison them, hang them, if you need to.
RELIGION-BASED POLITICS
Islam is not simply a religion, it is a life system. You can say about secularism...Sheikh Mujib himself established the Islamic Foundation and the Quran was also recited on the radio during the Liberation War, Allahu Akbar was mentioned several times during airing.
Denying a religion-based political party will be denying the democratic process and the constitution. No democracy can ban a religion-based party.
Religion-based politics...has never been banned in the sub-continent. The Muslim League and the Jamaat-e-Islami India were banned in India but they were cleared by the court.
Bangladeshi Islamic parties have been in existence since 1975. According to the constitution, if any party has any right to be formed, it is the Islamic parties. It is a democratic constitution, not just a large Islamic constitution, and no party can be banned under a democratic constitution, not in England, not anywhere else.



Re: [mukto-mona] BNP calls off March 29 Hartal: A Good Decision--editorial




http://www.somewhereinblog.net/blog/Habibfprblog/29566199

  http://www.amarblog.com/habib/posts/145408


From: Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] BNP calls off March 29 Hartal: A Good Decision--editorial

 
BNP has taken an admirable step. I want to express my thankfulness to BNP for this consideration. But, I am surprised that Mr. Gayeshwar did not inform BNP-leaders before about the conflict of this date with the Hindu religious day. I guess – he was busy looking after his other interests.
Jiten Roy

--- On Sun, 3/25/12, S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com> wrote:

From: S A Hannan <sahannan@sonarbangladesh.com>
Subject: [mukto-mona] BNP calls off March 29 Hartal: A Good Decision--editorial
To: hkbadal@gmail.com, digantaeditorial@gmail.com
Date: Sunday, March 25, 2012, 9:10 PM

 

BNP calls off March 29 Hartal: A Good Decision

The BNP last night withdrew the hartal on March 29 it had called earlier, but will hold demonstrations across the country on the day.The decision was taken at a meeting of the main opposition party and its allies at BNP Chairperson Khaleda Zia's Gulshan office in the capital around 11:00pm.Acting Secretary General of the BNP Fakhrul Islam Alamgir communicated the decision to journalists after the meeting.He said the opposition would also hold demonstrations in Dhaka on March 31.
Earlier at about 9:00pm yesterday, a group of Hindu community leaders met the BNP leaders and urged them to withdraw the hartal since the Hindus have a religious festival -- Punna Snan (holy dip) -- on March 29.
We are happy that the Hartal has been withdrawn.It would not have served any special purpose after March 12 declaration requesting government to restore Caretaker government.Moreover they have also raised the same demand most forcefully in the Parliament.
We are more happy because it has been withdrawn at the request of the leaders of Hindu community. A majority Muslim state must always be careful about religious and human rights of Non-Muslims.
 




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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] Personal attacks in Mukto-Mona




http://www.somewhereinblog.net/blog/Habibfprblog/29566199

  http://www.amarblog.com/habib/posts/145408



From: Farida Majid <farida_majid@hotmail.com>
To: mukto-mona <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 3:13 AM
Subject: RE: [mukto-mona] Personal attacks in Mukto-Mona

 
              What needs to be considered is not 'attack' per se. We are all fighting for the good, I hope, and that means fighting against the 'bad, the ugly and the 'evil'. So certain amount of 'attack' will be part of any passionate debate. However, the manner in which the attacks are conducted reveals the intent. Are we attacking the bad 'idea' or the person who seems to endorse or embody the badness? Furthermore, if the mannerism consists of a certain amount of bombast then the intention is not an honest attempt to establish the truth. Rather, it turns out to be a bit of self-advertisement.

                In the quote of Subimal provided here there does not seem to be any personal reference to Kamal Das. The idea contained in it may have something objectionable to Mr. Das.  He is free to attack that idea and bring it to our attention. But his sweeping judgment: A person with such upbringing is bound to have worthless opinions-- in unconscionable.

                Farida Majid


To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
From: kamalctgu@gmail.com
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:07:01 +0600
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Personal attacks in Mukto-Mona

 
I sincerely wish to refrain from personal attacks. But to understand his mindset, I am giving you excerpts from one of his postings made years ago.  "In my childhood, my grandma taught me that I should not feel shy to take pronam from elderly non Brahmins, because a Brahmin is like a 'tulsi' plant always worth worshiping irrespective of it's size."  A person with such upbringing is bound to have worthless opinions.  No matter how resolutely one refutes his 'well researched' opinions with supporting documents, he would carry on shamelessly with his debate like Cyclops. 

I hope to cease to participate in these endless nonsense from now on.  I 


On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 1:40 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Sorry, I did overlook the personal attacks that Mr. Chakrabarty had done on Dr. Das. Let us please forget all the attacks that have been done. Let us not revisit who started it or who did more of it. From now on, let us all refrain from attacking anyone personally.
 
Thanks,
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
====================================
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Personal attacks in Mukto-Mona
 
I am amused at the lack of attention by Dr. Bain on the personal attacks that Mr. Chakrabarty has made on me.  In fact he initiated them.  Like a street urchin begging for food, he keeps on begging for informations and want to teach me 'civility'.  A few years earlier, he even apologized to me in a personal email for his lack of manners.  This guy was a few years junior to me at Dhaka University.  Doesn't Dr. Bain think him insolent?

I do not enjoy any discussion with everybody.  Those who find me offensive are requested earnestly to ignore me.

On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 4:12 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
I think too much of personal attacking is going on in Mukto-Mona. A case in point is Dr. Kamal Das's nagging personal attacks on Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty.
 
I am sure many of us in this forum have children that are old enough for us to expect maturity in their expressions, especially when they communicate with other people. Let us please try that on ourselves. When appropriate, let us attack the message without attacking the messenger. Let us not use derogatory adjectives or insults on anyone. Direct attacks on individuals are worst, certainly detrimental to the respectability of the attacker.
 
Sukhamaya Bain 
 
 
=====================================
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Burqa banning after RAJUK, now Syedpur's Lions school and college: Minority Islam in Muslim majority Bangladesh
 
Mr. Chakrabarty thinks everybody but me is with him.  Being incorrigibly 'wise' he fails to see that God is a tribal lord.  Even the descendants of Abraham had different Gods.  Allah has ninety nine names, or 'Shayang Bhagwan' Krishna has hundred and eight for that matter, pointing not to so many manifestations but to so many different original constituents.  Most of the findings about Islam in the west is a post-Tagore phenomenon.  Just because some 'wise men' called the prophet 'Maharshi' he doesn't become infallible.  The research on Islam got momentum after Alfred Gillaum translated Ibn Hisham edited biography of the prophet written by Ibn Ishaque.  Whatever Mr. Chakrabarty might read, he comprehends next to nothing.  He should increase the dose of 'pancha gabya' in his diet to improve his comprehension.  May Allah grant him an Islamic paradise.
 
==============================
On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

I think Mr. Chakrabarty is denigrating the "we" word a bit too much here. I have no intention of comparing my mind with that of any 'maharhishi' of any variety, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, or Jew. I put Buddha at a higher plane compared to the other 'maharhishis'. 'Maharhishi' or not, we came from our forefathers, and they had their virtues and vices, as we do; there is no need to overly denigrate any party. However, "we" certainly have a higher level of knowledge and intellect. We can appreciate our forefathers' real revolutions in terms of the standard at their time. We can go a bit soft on their crimes, because we came from them, and because we can certainly avoid emulating them. However, it would be wrong to import their primitive wisdom to our time. It would be wrong to apply too much of the superlative adjectives on them, because our present world has too many people who want to follow them by the book, even up to the point of hating innocent people.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
==============================================
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Burqa banning after RAJUK, now Syedpur's Lions school and college: Minority Islam in Muslim majority Bangladesh
 
Thanks for speaking the truth. I will follow your advice. I will ignore personal attacks and say whatever I believe to be right. I personally know and you me. We both are too old to be able to be awakened from our sleep. Over the years we have consolidated our mindset and conviction which seem to be almost unchangeable. Now every one in the forum knows our directions of thought. We are on two different planes and we will never meet. But we we will definitely know each other. 
If you do not agree with Rabindranath you can say any thing you want to say against him as Das I'd now doing. I just wanted to explain why RN said so even though supposedly he must have not supported every thing Muhammad did in his personal life. Our mind is too little to comprehend him. We are neo intellectuals trying to use our leisure time as we have nothing else to do. We are all kind of parasites which we hardly realize. 
You have read the Geeta and you have seen Bhagwan himself, not even a sage, is instigating Arjuna to kill his own cousins and other close relatives to reinstate Dharma. 
Sent from my iPhone
 
===============================================
On Mar 17, 2012, at 8:00 PM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Here we go again. I have a suggestion for Kamal Das, and that is – he needs to let go the thread after one rebuttal; he keeps following the thread at no end without realizing where he is heading. It seems like he is trying to wake up someone who is pretending to sleep. There is a point when you have to realize that you cannot change the mind of your opponent no matter how much information you pile up in front of him/her. That's when you stop.
By now every one of us should have an idea about the intellectual aptitudes, philosophical, political, and religious views of all regular contributors to this forum. As a result, there is no need to prove anything. Just tell what your views are on the subject. That's it. You should always expect that, based on someone's intellectual aptitude, philosophical, political, and religious views, he/she will either agree or disagree with your views. I learned this truth from my own observations.
Now, about the 'Maharishi' attribute to Muhammad by Rabindra Nath, I do not know the pretext of the attribution, and it really does not matter to me. I like to judge everything on my own. I do not know any Maharishi ever instructed his followers to kill all non-believers of his views wherever they can find them. I do not know any Maharishi who told his followers to kill all male non-believers and distribute all female non-believers to his followers as booty after capturing them. I know it was in the context of a war, but – still does not make sense to me. Therefore, it will not make an iota of difference in my judgment even if God-almighty tells me that it was the right thing to do. I know – millions will disagree with me, and that's fine with me. I do not want to change anyone's mind; I just want to express my own feelings on the subject.
I know some people draw conclusion about a subject based on views of others, and some draw conclusions to please others. I do not do so; I collect information and then pass that through my own filter(s) to draw a conclusion of my own. The bottom line is – just because some famous people mentioned about something does not make it a truth. I remember Professor Amartya Sen, a Nobel laureate, visited Bangladesh sometime in 2001, just after the election and the worst ever communal pogrom in Bangladesh. Khaleda Zia gave him a reception, and during his speech Amartya Sen said that - Bagladesh was a perfect example of communal harmony. I am sure he knew that he was lying through his teeth just to promote his NGO program in Bangladesh. I hope I made my case.
Jiten Roy
==============================







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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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[ALOCHONA] Fw: Durrani with BBC


----- Forwarded Message -----
From: SyedAslam <syed.aslam3@gmail.com>
To: Mohiuddin Anwar <mohiuddin@netzero.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: Durrani with BBC

Do you think Durrani will disclose the ISI's
best kept secret [BNP-ISI deal] to the media?

Besides, he is still under oath.....

Finally, Asad Durrani is trying to rescue it's
creation BNP from sinking .....!

Truth popped out, readUnfolding mysteries:
http://www.dateline.com.pk/?p=4807 



On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Mohiuddin Anwar <mohiuddin@netzero.net> wrote:

Please know the truth.


http://www.real-timenews.com/details.php?id=44666&p=1&s=3



____________________________________________________________
53 Year Old Mom Looks 33




[mukto-mona] Fw: Sheik Mujibur Rahman declares region Independent Republic, ABC And NBC, March 26, 1971




----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Mohammad M. Rahman <jalalabir@gmail.com>
To: c b <bablu3@yahoo.com>; subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 7:54 PM
Subject: Sheik Mujibur Rahman declares region Independent Republic, ABC And NBC, March 26, 1971
Dada

Adab,

Please see the VDO .

Sheik Mujibur Rahman declares region Independent Republic, ABC, March 26, 1971 - MMRJalal


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tQk4r0FtmY&feature=share

ABC Evening News for
Friday, Mar 26, 1971

Headline: Pakistan / Civil War

Abstract:
(Studio) E. Pakistan Leader Sheik Mujibur Rahman declares region Independent Republic; civil war breaks out; West Pakistan rptdly. using full force including tanks to crush revolt.
REPORTER: Harry Reasoner
(Dacca, E. Pakistan) E. Pakistan won major in National Assembly Elections last December; intended to draft new constitution to improve E. Pakistan treatment; assembly postponed by West Pakistan Leader Ali Bhutto for 3 weeks; W. Pakistan President Yahya Khan meeting with Rahman, joined by Bhutto; after assembly postponed indefinitely, E. Pakistan declares independence.
REPORTER: Ted Koppel

Sheik Mujibur Rahman declares region independent, CBS, Mar 26, 1971 - MMRJalal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUCMCXfscgc&context=C44f95a1ADvjVQa1PpcFMe37UYxDqUzLh0WwpcfzC5AKvILM62oAU=

CBS Evening News for
Friday, Mar 26, 1971

Headline: Pakistan / Civil War

Abstract:
(Studio) Civil war breaks out in Pakistan; West Pakistan Army battles civilians in E. Pakistan; E. Pakistan Leader Sheik Mujibur Rahman declares region independent. Film shows Mujibur addressing rally in Dacca yesterday. [MUJIBUR - says no one can stop E. Pakistan people.] 1,100 United States citizens in E. Pakistan,
Thanks.

-- 
MMR Jalal."Pheeray Dekhun Ekattor. Ghuray Darak Bangladesh."


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               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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Re: [mukto-mona] Personal attacks in Mukto-Mona



On the contrary, my father taught me that when you touch the feet of someone else, you take away his virtue and wisdom.  A Brahmin without humility and knowledge of scripture is not consistent with the meaning of the word.  You would be better advised to use whatever 'books' you have read thus far as fuel to barbecue chicken.  Many critical books are available free on the net, and sold in the summer sales by the Universities.  Try to realize that religion is a geocentric phenomenon and most books written by believers had no scientific approach whatsoever.  Only an immature person would believe that he has read 'too many books'. I trust you can overcome such state of mind.  Read everything you can grab but trust only those your judgement permits.  An e-forum is not a place to learn or teach  anything.

On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 11:42 PM, subimal chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

I simply stated a fact from my childhood menmory. It is right that I come of a conservative Hindu family with rural origin. If you are not from an enlightened Hindu (better Brahma) family living in Kolkata, I am sure your grand-ma also believed the same way as my grand-ma did. This is the reality of our society. We do not need to be ashamed of it.

Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 10:07 PM

Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Personal attacks in Mukto-Mona
 
I sincerely wish to refrain from personal attacks. But to understand his mindset, I am giving you excerpts from one of his postings made years ago.  "In my childhood, my grandma taught me that I should not feel shy to take pronam from elderly non Brahmins, because a Brahmin is like a 'tulsi' plant always worth worshiping irrespective of it's size."  A person with such upbringing is bound to have worthless opinions.  No matter how resolutely one refutes his 'well researched' opinions with supporting documents, he would carry on shamelessly with his debate like Cyclops. 

I hope to cease to participate in these endless nonsense from now on.  I 

On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 1:40 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Sorry, I did overlook the personal attacks that Mr. Chakrabarty had done on Dr. Das. Let us please forget all the attacks that have been done. Let us not revisit who started it or who did more of it. From now on, let us all refrain from attacking anyone personally.
 
Thanks,
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
====================================
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Personal attacks in Mukto-Mona
 
I am amused at the lack of attention by Dr. Bain on the personal attacks that Mr. Chakrabarty has made on me.  In fact he initiated them.  Like a street urchin begging for food, he keeps on begging for informations and want to teach me 'civility'.  A few years earlier, he even apologized to me in a personal email for his lack of manners.  This guy was a few years junior to me at Dhaka University.  Doesn't Dr. Bain think him insolent? I do not enjoy any discussion with everybody.  Those who find me offensive are requested earnestly to ignore me.
On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 4:12 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
I think too much of personal attacking is going on in Mukto-Mona. A case in point is Dr. Kamal Das's nagging personal attacks on Mr. Subimal Chakrabarty.
 
I am sure many of us in this forum have children that are old enough for us to expect maturity in their expressions, especially when they communicate with other people. Let us please try that on ourselves. When appropriate, let us attack the message without attacking the messenger. Let us not use derogatory adjectives or insults on anyone. Direct attacks on individuals are worst, certainly detrimental to the respectability of the attacker.
 
Sukhamaya Bain 
 
 
=====================================
From: Kamal Das <kamalctgu@gmail.com>
To: mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Burqa banning after RAJUK, now Syedpur's Lions school and college: Minority Islam in Muslim majority Bangladesh
 
Mr. Chakrabarty thinks everybody but me is with him.  Being incorrigibly 'wise' he fails to see that God is a tribal lord.  Even the descendants of Abraham had different Gods.  Allah has ninety nine names, or 'Shayang Bhagwan' Krishna has hundred and eight for that matter, pointing not to so many manifestations but to so many different original constituents.  Most of the findings about Islam in the west is a post-Tagore phenomenon.  Just because some 'wise men' called the prophet 'Maharshi' he doesn't become infallible.  The research on Islam got momentum after Alfred Gillaum translated Ibn Hisham edited biography of the prophet written by Ibn Ishaque.  Whatever Mr. Chakrabarty might read, he comprehends next to nothing.  He should increase the dose of 'pancha gabya' in his diet to improve his comprehension.  May Allah grant him an Islamic paradise.
 
==============================
On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Sukhamaya Bain <subain1@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

I think Mr. Chakrabarty is denigrating the "we" word a bit too much here. I have no intention of comparing my mind with that of any 'maharhishi' of any variety, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, or Jew. I put Buddha at a higher plane compared to the other 'maharhishis'. 'Maharhishi' or not, we came from our forefathers, and they had their virtues and vices, as we do; there is no need to overly denigrate any party. However, "we" certainly have a higher level of knowledge and intellect. We can appreciate our forefathers' real revolutions in terms of the standard at their time. We can go a bit soft on their crimes, because we came from them, and because we can certainly avoid emulating them. However, it would be wrong to import their primitive wisdom to our time. It would be wrong to apply too much of the superlative adjectives on them, because our present world has too many people who want to follow them by the book, even up to the point of hating innocent people.
 
Sukhamaya Bain
 
==============================================
From: Subimal Chakrabarty <subimal@yahoo.com>
To: "mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com" <mukto-mona@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [mukto-mona] Burqa banning after RAJUK, now Syedpur's Lions school and college: Minority Islam in Muslim majority Bangladesh
 
Thanks for speaking the truth. I will follow your advice. I will ignore personal attacks and say whatever I believe to be right. I personally know and you me. We both are too old to be able to be awakened from our sleep. Over the years we have consolidated our mindset and conviction which seem to be almost unchangeable. Now every one in the forum knows our directions of thought. We are on two different planes and we will never meet. But we we will definitely know each other. 
If you do not agree with Rabindranath you can say any thing you want to say against him as Das I'd now doing. I just wanted to explain why RN said so even though supposedly he must have not supported every thing Muhammad did in his personal life. Our mind is too little to comprehend him. We are neo intellectuals trying to use our leisure time as we have nothing else to do. We are all kind of parasites which we hardly realize. 
You have read the Geeta and you have seen Bhagwan himself, not even a sage, is instigating Arjuna to kill his own cousins and other close relatives to reinstate Dharma. 
Sent from my iPhone
 
===============================================
On Mar 17, 2012, at 8:00 PM, Jiten Roy <jnrsr53@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Here we go again. I have a suggestion for Kamal Das, and that is – he needs to let go the thread after one rebuttal; he keeps following the thread at no end without realizing where he is heading. It seems like he is trying to wake up someone who is pretending to sleep. There is a point when you have to realize that you cannot change the mind of your opponent no matter how much information you pile up in front of him/her. That's when you stop.
By now every one of us should have an idea about the intellectual aptitudes, philosophical, political, and religious views of all regular contributors to this forum. As a result, there is no need to prove anything. Just tell what your views are on the subject. That's it. You should always expect that, based on someone's intellectual aptitude, philosophical, political, and religious views, he/she will either agree or disagree with your views. I learned this truth from my own observations.
Now, about the 'Maharishi' attribute to Muhammad by Rabindra Nath, I do not know the pretext of the attribution, and it really does not matter to me. I like to judge everything on my own. I do not know any Maharishi ever instructed his followers to kill all non-believers of his views wherever they can find them. I do not know any Maharishi who told his followers to kill all male non-believers and distribute all female non-believers to his followers as booty after capturing them. I know it was in the context of a war, but – still does not make sense to me. Therefore, it will not make an iota of difference in my judgment even if God-almighty tells me that it was the right thing to do. I know – millions will disagree with me, and that's fine with me. I do not want to change anyone's mind; I just want to express my own feelings on the subject.
I know some people draw conclusion about a subject based on views of others, and some draw conclusions to please others. I do not do so; I collect information and then pass that through my own filter(s) to draw a conclusion of my own. The bottom line is – just because some famous people mentioned about something does not make it a truth. I remember Professor Amartya Sen, a Nobel laureate, visited Bangladesh sometime in 2001, just after the election and the worst ever communal pogrom in Bangladesh. Khaleda Zia gave him a reception, and during his speech Amartya Sen said that - Bagladesh was a perfect example of communal harmony. I am sure he knew that he was lying through his teeth just to promote his NGO program in Bangladesh. I hope I made my case.
Jiten Roy
==============================




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Mukto Mona plans for a Grand Darwin Day Celebration: 
Call For Articles:

http://mukto-mona.com/wordpress/?p=68

http://mukto-mona.com/banga_blog/?p=585

****************************************************

VISIT MUKTO-MONA WEB-SITE : http://www.mukto-mona.com/

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"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
               -Beatrice Hall [pseudonym: S.G. Tallentyre], 190




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